Would you make this blockbuster trade?

[scoutyjones2]

no thanks

Crazy how many people already want to move Winn

Jobu, it's not "wanting" to get rid of Winn (I'm a big fan) but rather it's structuring a trade idea that actually makes sense.

In this case the Dodgers benefit greatly by strengthening their infield defense and their bullpen.

The Cardinals benefit greatly by acquiring a stud, righthanded hitting OF they control for years.

The Cardinals have JJW playing SS so they have Winn's replacement.

The Dodgers can easily sign K. Tucker to replace Pages in the offseason as well as retain Helsley if they choose to.

You’re really trying to give away Winn.

OPS the last 2 years
Pages: .762
Winn: .723

One plays SS, the other is an OFer. And it’s not like Pages .813 OPS is all that much higher than Winn’s .713. Especially when you factor in elite defense at SS. Winn’s fWAR is 3.0, Pages is 3.2.

And Winn seems to be heating up with an .872 OPS over his last 14 days. Pages is at .709 OPS over his last 28 days and .833 OPS over his last 14.

No "giveaway" at all, fair offer.

2025
Pages
19 HR
.815 OPS
3.1 bWAR

Winn
7 HR
.713 OPS
2.4 bWAR

One plays SS, the other plays CF

And you're IGNORING the Cardinals have NO righthanded hitting OF'ers anywhere close to Pages while having a super talented hitter at Memphis in JJW who's playing SS.

Ok he may not be Winn level defensively but the odds are super strong Winn's not JJW level offensively either, wash.

Again, you can have inane KMOX open line "Let's trade J. Walker and Helsley for A. Pages" ideas

or

You can structure a fair trade.

This is a fair, win-win trade that makes both teams better (especially when you realize the Dodgers can sign K. Tucker if they want to this off season and the Cardinals have JJW ready to step in at SS).

RHH outfielders are a rare breed these days...both for a trade or a draft

[scoutyjones2]

I don't think it is a terrible idea, but I liked the trade you brought up yesterday better. In that one, the Dodgers would send Pages to St. Louis for Helsley and Nootbaar. I thought that would not be enough, and suggested adding Maton or Arenado to LA. I would rather give up Noot and Maton or Arenado instead of Winn.

Yeah, they don't want our garbage. Noots injured too

[rockondlouie]

no thanks

Crazy how many people already want to move Winn

Jobu, it's not "wanting" to get rid of Winn (I'm a big fan) but rather it's structuring a trade idea that actually makes sense.

In this case the Dodgers benefit greatly by strengthening their infield defense and their bullpen.

The Cardinals benefit greatly by acquiring a stud, righthanded hitting OF they control for years.

The Cardinals have JJW playing SS so they have Winn's replacement.

The Dodgers can easily sign K. Tucker to replace Pages in the offseason as well as retain Helsley if they choose to.

You’re really trying to give away Winn.

OPS the last 2 years
Pages: .762
Winn: .723

One plays SS, the other is an OFer. And it’s not like Pages .813 OPS is all that much higher than Winn’s .713. Especially when you factor in elite defense at SS. Winn’s fWAR is 3.0, Pages is 3.2.

And Winn seems to be heating up with an .872 OPS over his last 14 days. Pages is at .709 OPS over his last 28 days and .833 OPS over his last 14.

No "giveaway" at all, fair offer.

2025
Pages
19 HR
.815 OPS
3.1 bWAR

Winn
7 HR
.713 OPS
2.4 bWAR

One plays SS, the other plays CF

And you're IGNORING the Cardinals have NO righthanded hitting OF'ers anywhere close to Pages while having a super talented hitter at Memphis in JJW who's playing SS.

Ok he may not be Winn level defensively but the odds are super strong Winn's not JJW level offensively either, wash.

Again, you can have inane KMOX open line "Let's trade J. Walker and Helsley for A. Pages" ideas

or

You can structure a fair trade.

This is a fair, win-win trade that makes both teams better (especially when you realize the Dodgers can sign K. Tucker if they want to this off season and the Cardinals have JJW ready to step in at SS).

Pages is not the kind of player that I would deal Winn for.

Very low walk rate (4.5%), not a good chase rate (34%), not a great EV (avg 88 mph), not a great barrel% (8%), and a low hard hit% (38%) for a guy that is going to be offense first. He had a great start to the year, other than that he hasn’t shown a ton IMO at the big league level.

So you have no interest in a 24 yr old, right handed hitting OF'er w/power who doesn't hit free agency until 2031

for a weak hitting (career: .257 .308 .386 .694 ), all glove SS who can't steal bases?

I'd make that deal 100 out of 100 times knowing I just added an outstanding hitting righthanded OFer (last one we had was M. Holiday years ago) + I can replace Winn with JJW.

IMO that would be a STEAL for the Cardinals.

[rockondlouie]

no thanks

Crazy how many people already want to move Winn

Jobu, it's not "wanting" to get rid of Winn (I'm a big fan) but rather it's structuring a trade idea that actually makes sense.

In this case the Dodgers benefit greatly by strengthening their infield defense and their bullpen.

The Cardinals benefit greatly by acquiring a stud, righthanded hitting OF they control for years.

The Cardinals have JJW playing SS so they have Winn's replacement.

The Dodgers can easily sign K. Tucker to replace Pages in the offseason as well as retain Helsley if they choose to.

You’re really trying to give away Winn.

OPS the last 2 years
Pages: .762
Winn: .723

One plays SS, the other is an OFer. And it’s not like Pages .813 OPS is all that much higher than Winn’s .713. Especially when you factor in elite defense at SS. Winn’s fWAR is 3.0, Pages is 3.2.

And Winn seems to be heating up with an .872 OPS over his last 14 days. Pages is at .709 OPS over his last 28 days and .833 OPS over his last 14.

No "giveaway" at all, fair offer.

2025
Pages
19 HR
.815 OPS
3.1 bWAR

Winn
7 HR
.713 OPS
2.4 bWAR

One plays SS, the other plays CF

And you're IGNORING the Cardinals have NO righthanded hitting OF'ers anywhere close to Pages while having a super talented hitter at Memphis in JJW who's playing SS.

Ok he may not be Winn level defensively but the odds are super strong Winn's not JJW level offensively either, wash.

Again, you can have inane KMOX open line "Let's trade J. Walker and Helsley for A. Pages" ideas

or

You can structure a fair trade.

This is a fair, win-win trade that makes both teams better (especially when you realize the Dodgers can sign K. Tucker if they want to this off season and the Cardinals have JJW ready to step in at SS).

RHH outfielders are a rare breed these days...both for a trade or a draft

BINGO

And Pages is under control until 2031!

[Quincy Varnish]

R. Helsley
+
M. Winn

for

A. Pages
19 HR
63 RBI
.285 .326 .489 .815


-M. Betts goes back to the OF to replace Pages, Dodgers get a great defensive SS and great bullpen piece.

-Then they sign K. Tucker in the offseason to replace Pages.

-While C. Bloom gets the young, cost controlled (not a free agent until 2031) righthanded hitter he needs for the OF and he slides JJW in at SS 2026 opening day.

-WIN-WIN for both teams!

Get er' done.

Feels like a significant overpay. Winn and Pages might be near each other in value, although I’d think Winn would have more based on his position and defensive abilities. So then you’re giving Helsley away.

Cards would have to get more back in a deal like this.

Yup. Add on Wrobleski or Knack and maybe it’s fair-ish. There is also that small problem that the Dodgers are unlikely to have any desire to trade Pages, and the same could be said for the Cards & Winn.

The Dodgers typically don’t like making deadline deals, but I think they might give up a young arm for Helsley. The Winn/Pages thing isn’t happening.

[Jobu's Rum]

no thanks

Crazy how many people already want to move Winn

Jobu, it's not "wanting" to get rid of Winn (I'm a big fan) but rather it's structuring a trade idea that actually makes sense.

In this case the Dodgers benefit greatly by strengthening their infield defense and their bullpen.

The Cardinals benefit greatly by acquiring a stud, righthanded hitting OF they control for years.

The Cardinals have JJW playing SS so they have Winn's replacement.

The Dodgers can easily sign K. Tucker to replace Pages in the offseason as well as retain Helsley if they choose to.

I get that but we still need to see JJ in the big leagues. I know he is as close to a sure thing, but no prospect is guaranteed success. Winn had a great rookie year with an elite glove and arm at SS and is only 23. He is one of the very few I don't move at this point

[Futuregm2]

no thanks

Crazy how many people already want to move Winn

Jobu, it's not "wanting" to get rid of Winn (I'm a big fan) but rather it's structuring a trade idea that actually makes sense.

In this case the Dodgers benefit greatly by strengthening their infield defense and their bullpen.

The Cardinals benefit greatly by acquiring a stud, righthanded hitting OF they control for years.

The Cardinals have JJW playing SS so they have Winn's replacement.

The Dodgers can easily sign K. Tucker to replace Pages in the offseason as well as retain Helsley if they choose to.

You’re really trying to give away Winn.

OPS the last 2 years
Pages: .762
Winn: .723

One plays SS, the other is an OFer. And it’s not like Pages .813 OPS is all that much higher than Winn’s .713. Especially when you factor in elite defense at SS. Winn’s fWAR is 3.0, Pages is 3.2.

And Winn seems to be heating up with an .872 OPS over his last 14 days. Pages is at .709 OPS over his last 28 days and .833 OPS over his last 14.

No "giveaway" at all, fair offer.

2025
Pages
19 HR
.815 OPS
3.1 bWAR

Winn
7 HR
.713 OPS
2.4 bWAR

One plays SS, the other plays CF

And you're IGNORING the Cardinals have NO righthanded hitting OF'ers anywhere close to Pages while having a super talented hitter at Memphis in JJW who's playing SS.

Ok he may not be Winn level defensively but the odds are super strong Winn's not JJW level offensively either, wash.

Again, you can have inane KMOX open line "Let's trade J. Walker and Helsley for A. Pages" ideas

or

You can structure a fair trade.

This is a fair, win-win trade that makes both teams better (especially when you realize the Dodgers can sign K. Tucker if they want to this off season and the Cardinals have JJW ready to step in at SS).

Pages is not the kind of player that I would deal Winn for.

Very low walk rate (4.5%), not a good chase rate (34%), not a great EV (avg 88 mph), not a great barrel% (8%), and a low hard hit% (38%) for a guy that is going to be offense first. He had a great start to the year, other than that he hasn’t shown a ton IMO at the big league level.

So you have no interest in a 24 yr old, right handed hitting OF'er w/power who doesn't hit free agency until 2031

for a weak hitting (career: .257 .308 .386 .694 ), all glove SS who can't steal bases?

I'd make that deal 100 out of 100 times knowing I just added an outstanding hitting righthanded OFer (last one we had was M. Holiday years ago) + I can replace Winn with JJW.

IMO that would be a STEAL for the Cardinals.

Depends on what Pages turns into. If he becomes a .850-.900 OPS player, then that’s great. If he’s more like a .750-.800 OPS player as he has been during his MLB time and as his metrics look like they could be (his expected numbers are .275 avg and .460 SLG combined with probably a .315ish OBP), then I’ll take the 23 year old SS who has had a .723 OPS player over the last 2 years with stud defense. Put Wetherholt at 2B and have the MIF covered for the next decade. Trade Donovan for a power OFer.

[scoutyjones2]

no thanks

Crazy how many people already want to move Winn

Jobu, it's not "wanting" to get rid of Winn (I'm a big fan) but rather it's structuring a trade idea that actually makes sense.

In this case the Dodgers benefit greatly by strengthening their infield defense and their bullpen.

The Cardinals benefit greatly by acquiring a stud, righthanded hitting OF they control for years.

The Cardinals have JJW playing SS so they have Winn's replacement.

The Dodgers can easily sign K. Tucker to replace Pages in the offseason as well as retain Helsley if they choose to.

You’re really trying to give away Winn.

OPS the last 2 years
Pages: .762
Winn: .723

One plays SS, the other is an OFer. And it’s not like Pages .813 OPS is all that much higher than Winn’s .713. Especially when you factor in elite defense at SS. Winn’s fWAR is 3.0, Pages is 3.2.

And Winn seems to be heating up with an .872 OPS over his last 14 days. Pages is at .709 OPS over his last 28 days and .833 OPS over his last 14.

No "giveaway" at all, fair offer.

2025
Pages
19 HR
.815 OPS
3.1 bWAR

Winn
7 HR
.713 OPS
2.4 bWAR

One plays SS, the other plays CF

And you're IGNORING the Cardinals have NO righthanded hitting OF'ers anywhere close to Pages while having a super talented hitter at Memphis in JJW who's playing SS.

Ok he may not be Winn level defensively but the odds are super strong Winn's not JJW level offensively either, wash.

Again, you can have inane KMOX open line "Let's trade J. Walker and Helsley for A. Pages" ideas

or

You can structure a fair trade.

This is a fair, win-win trade that makes both teams better (especially when you realize the Dodgers can sign K. Tucker if they want to this off season and the Cardinals have JJW ready to step in at SS).

RHH outfielders are a rare breed these days...both for a trade or a draft

BINGO

And Pages is under control until 2031!

Why do you hate Winn?!

[rockondlouie]

no thanks

Crazy how many people already want to move Winn

Jobu, it's not "wanting" to get rid of Winn (I'm a big fan) but rather it's structuring a trade idea that actually makes sense.

In this case the Dodgers benefit greatly by strengthening their infield defense and their bullpen.

The Cardinals benefit greatly by acquiring a stud, righthanded hitting OF they control for years.

The Cardinals have JJW playing SS so they have Winn's replacement.

The Dodgers can easily sign K. Tucker to replace Pages in the offseason as well as retain Helsley if they choose to.

I get that but we still need to see JJ in the big leagues. I know he is as close to a sure thing, but no prospect is guaranteed success. Winn had a great rookie year with an elite glove and arm at SS and is only 23. He is one of the very few I don't move at this point

For sure, could happen in a few weeks if he keeps tearing up AAA.

Just having some fun as we near the deadline.

[rockondlouie]

no thanks

Crazy how many people already want to move Winn

Jobu, it's not "wanting" to get rid of Winn (I'm a big fan) but rather it's structuring a trade idea that actually makes sense.

In this case the Dodgers benefit greatly by strengthening their infield defense and their bullpen.

The Cardinals benefit greatly by acquiring a stud, righthanded hitting OF they control for years.

The Cardinals have JJW playing SS so they have Winn's replacement.

The Dodgers can easily sign K. Tucker to replace Pages in the offseason as well as retain Helsley if they choose to.

You’re really trying to give away Winn.

OPS the last 2 years
Pages: .762
Winn: .723

One plays SS, the other is an OFer. And it’s not like Pages .813 OPS is all that much higher than Winn’s .713. Especially when you factor in elite defense at SS. Winn’s fWAR is 3.0, Pages is 3.2.

And Winn seems to be heating up with an .872 OPS over his last 14 days. Pages is at .709 OPS over his last 28 days and .833 OPS over his last 14.

No "giveaway" at all, fair offer.

2025
Pages
19 HR
.815 OPS
3.1 bWAR

Winn
7 HR
.713 OPS
2.4 bWAR

One plays SS, the other plays CF

And you're IGNORING the Cardinals have NO righthanded hitting OF'ers anywhere close to Pages while having a super talented hitter at Memphis in JJW who's playing SS.

Ok he may not be Winn level defensively but the odds are super strong Winn's not JJW level offensively either, wash.

Again, you can have inane KMOX open line "Let's trade J. Walker and Helsley for A. Pages" ideas

or

You can structure a fair trade.

This is a fair, win-win trade that makes both teams better (especially when you realize the Dodgers can sign K. Tucker if they want to this off season and the Cardinals have JJW ready to step in at SS).

Pages is not the kind of player that I would deal Winn for.

Very low walk rate (4.5%), not a good chase rate (34%), not a great EV (avg 88 mph), not a great barrel% (8%), and a low hard hit% (38%) for a guy that is going to be offense first. He had a great start to the year, other than that he hasn’t shown a ton IMO at the big league level.

So you have no interest in a 24 yr old, right handed hitting OF'er w/power who doesn't hit free agency until 2031

for a weak hitting (career: .257 .308 .386 .694 ), all glove SS who can't steal bases?

I'd make that deal 100 out of 100 times knowing I just added an outstanding hitting righthanded OFer (last one we had was M. Holiday years ago) + I can replace Winn with JJW.

IMO that would be a STEAL for the Cardinals.

Depends on what Pages turns into. If he becomes a .850-.900 OPS player, then that’s great. If he’s more like a .750-.800 OPS player as he has been during his MLB time and as his metrics look like they could be (his expected numbers are .275 avg and .460 SLG combined with probably a .315ish OBP), then I’ll take the 23 year old SS who has had a .723 OPS player over the last 2 years with stud defense. Put Wetherholt at 2B and have the MIF covered for the next decade. Trade Donovan for a power OFer.

Well his "major league time" refers to his rookie season in 2024 and 98 games this season where's he's blossomed into on of the best hitting OF'er (126 OPS+) in MLB.

And no offense but Donny would NEVER bring back a young, controlled for years power hitting OFer like Pages.

[Jobu's Rum]

no thanks

Crazy how many people already want to move Winn

Jobu, it's not "wanting" to get rid of Winn (I'm a big fan) but rather it's structuring a trade idea that actually makes sense.

In this case the Dodgers benefit greatly by strengthening their infield defense and their bullpen.

The Cardinals benefit greatly by acquiring a stud, righthanded hitting OF they control for years.

The Cardinals have JJW playing SS so they have Winn's replacement.

The Dodgers can easily sign K. Tucker to replace Pages in the offseason as well as retain Helsley if they choose to.

I get that but we still need to see JJ in the big leagues. I know he is as close to a sure thing, but no prospect is guaranteed success. Winn had a great rookie year with an elite glove and arm at SS and is only 23. He is one of the very few I don't move at this point

For sure, could happen in a few weeks if he keeps tearing up AAA.

Just having some fun as we near the deadline.

Fair enough Rocky boy haha

[rockondlouie]

no thanks

Crazy how many people already want to move Winn

Jobu, it's not "wanting" to get rid of Winn (I'm a big fan) but rather it's structuring a trade idea that actually makes sense.

In this case the Dodgers benefit greatly by strengthening their infield defense and their bullpen.

The Cardinals benefit greatly by acquiring a stud, righthanded hitting OF they control for years.

The Cardinals have JJW playing SS so they have Winn's replacement.

The Dodgers can easily sign K. Tucker to replace Pages in the offseason as well as retain Helsley if they choose to.

You’re really trying to give away Winn.

OPS the last 2 years
Pages: .762
Winn: .723

One plays SS, the other is an OFer. And it’s not like Pages .813 OPS is all that much higher than Winn’s .713. Especially when you factor in elite defense at SS. Winn’s fWAR is 3.0, Pages is 3.2.

And Winn seems to be heating up with an .872 OPS over his last 14 days. Pages is at .709 OPS over his last 28 days and .833 OPS over his last 14.

No "giveaway" at all, fair offer.

2025
Pages
19 HR
.815 OPS
3.1 bWAR

Winn
7 HR
.713 OPS
2.4 bWAR

One plays SS, the other plays CF

And you're IGNORING the Cardinals have NO righthanded hitting OF'ers anywhere close to Pages while having a super talented hitter at Memphis in JJW who's playing SS.

Ok he may not be Winn level defensively but the odds are super strong Winn's not JJW level offensively either, wash.

Again, you can have inane KMOX open line "Let's trade J. Walker and Helsley for A. Pages" ideas

or

You can structure a fair trade.

This is a fair, win-win trade that makes both teams better (especially when you realize the Dodgers can sign K. Tucker if they want to this off season and the Cardinals have JJW ready to step in at SS).

RHH outfielders are a rare breed these days...both for a trade or a draft

BINGO

And Pages is under control until 2031!

Why do you hate Winn?!

[Ty Webb]

no thanks

Crazy how many people already want to move Winn

Jobu, it's not "wanting" to get rid of Winn (I'm a big fan) but rather it's structuring a trade idea that actually makes sense.

In this case the Dodgers benefit greatly by strengthening their infield defense and their bullpen.

The Cardinals benefit greatly by acquiring a stud, righthanded hitting OF they control for years.

The Cardinals have JJW playing SS so they have Winn's replacement.

The Dodgers can easily sign K. Tucker to replace Pages in the offseason as well as retain Helsley if they choose to.

You’re really trying to give away Winn.

OPS the last 2 years
Pages: .762
Winn: .723

One plays SS, the other is an OFer. And it’s not like Pages .813 OPS is all that much higher than Winn’s .713. Especially when you factor in elite defense at SS. Winn’s fWAR is 3.0, Pages is 3.2.

And Winn seems to be heating up with an .872 OPS over his last 14 days. Pages is at .709 OPS over his last 28 days and .833 OPS over his last 14.

No "giveaway" at all, fair offer.

2025
Pages
19 HR
.815 OPS
3.1 bWAR

Winn
7 HR
.713 OPS
2.4 bWAR

One plays SS, the other plays CF

And you're IGNORING the Cardinals have NO righthanded hitting OF'ers anywhere close to Pages while having a super talented hitter at Memphis in JJW who's playing SS.

Ok he may not be Winn level defensively but the odds are super strong Winn's not JJW level offensively either, wash.

Again, you can have inane KMOX open line "Let's trade J. Walker and Helsley for A. Pages" ideas

or

You can structure a fair trade.

This is a fair, win-win trade that makes both teams better (especially when you realize the Dodgers can sign K. Tucker if they want to this off season and the Cardinals have JJW ready to step in at SS).

Pages is not the kind of player that I would deal Winn for.

Very low walk rate (4.5%), not a good chase rate (34%), not a great EV (avg 88 mph), not a great barrel% (8%), and a low hard hit% (38%) for a guy that is going to be offense first. He had a great start to the year, other than that he hasn’t shown a ton IMO at the big league level.

So you have no interest in a 24 yr old, right handed hitting OF'er w/power who doesn't hit free agency until 2031

for a weak hitting (career: .257 .308 .386 .694 ), all glove SS who can't steal bases?

I'd make that deal 100 out of 100 times knowing I just added an outstanding hitting righthanded OFer (last one we had was M. Holiday years ago) + I can replace Winn with JJW.

IMO that would be a STEAL for the Cardinals.

Depends on what Pages turns into. If he becomes a .850-.900 OPS player, then that’s great. If he’s more like a .750-.800 OPS player as he has been during his MLB time and as his metrics look like they could be (his expected numbers are .275 avg and .460 SLG combined with probably a .315ish OBP), then I’ll take the 23 year old SS who has had a .723 OPS player over the last 2 years with stud defense. Put Wetherholt at 2B and have the MIF covered for the next decade. Trade Donovan for a power OFer.

Well his "major league time" refers to his rookie season in 2024 and 98 games this season where's he's blossomed into on of the best hitting OF'er (126 OPS+) in MLB.

And no offense but Donny would NEVER bring back a young, controlled for years power hitting OFer like Pages.

So how about tweaking your deal to Helsley and Donny for Pages and one of their minor leaguers? On MLB radio this morning they were talking about us possibly moving on from Donny in the right deal with JJW beating on the door.

If this were to go through, we have our MIF locked up for a while, plus we add a young right-handed power hitting OF.

[Futuregm2]

no thanks

Crazy how many people already want to move Winn

Jobu, it's not "wanting" to get rid of Winn (I'm a big fan) but rather it's structuring a trade idea that actually makes sense.

In this case the Dodgers benefit greatly by strengthening their infield defense and their bullpen.

The Cardinals benefit greatly by acquiring a stud, righthanded hitting OF they control for years.

The Cardinals have JJW playing SS so they have Winn's replacement.

The Dodgers can easily sign K. Tucker to replace Pages in the offseason as well as retain Helsley if they choose to.

You’re really trying to give away Winn.

OPS the last 2 years
Pages: .762
Winn: .723

One plays SS, the other is an OFer. And it’s not like Pages .813 OPS is all that much higher than Winn’s .713. Especially when you factor in elite defense at SS. Winn’s fWAR is 3.0, Pages is 3.2.

And Winn seems to be heating up with an .872 OPS over his last 14 days. Pages is at .709 OPS over his last 28 days and .833 OPS over his last 14.

No "giveaway" at all, fair offer.

2025
Pages
19 HR
.815 OPS
3.1 bWAR

Winn
7 HR
.713 OPS
2.4 bWAR

One plays SS, the other plays CF

And you're IGNORING the Cardinals have NO righthanded hitting OF'ers anywhere close to Pages while having a super talented hitter at Memphis in JJW who's playing SS.

Ok he may not be Winn level defensively but the odds are super strong Winn's not JJW level offensively either, wash.

Again, you can have inane KMOX open line "Let's trade J. Walker and Helsley for A. Pages" ideas

or

You can structure a fair trade.

This is a fair, win-win trade that makes both teams better (especially when you realize the Dodgers can sign K. Tucker if they want to this off season and the Cardinals have JJW ready to step in at SS).

Pages is not the kind of player that I would deal Winn for.

Very low walk rate (4.5%), not a good chase rate (34%), not a great EV (avg 88 mph), not a great barrel% (8%), and a low hard hit% (38%) for a guy that is going to be offense first. He had a great start to the year, other than that he hasn’t shown a ton IMO at the big league level.

So you have no interest in a 24 yr old, right handed hitting OF'er w/power who doesn't hit free agency until 2031

for a weak hitting (career: .257 .308 .386 .694 ), all glove SS who can't steal bases?

I'd make that deal 100 out of 100 times knowing I just added an outstanding hitting righthanded OFer (last one we had was M. Holiday years ago) + I can replace Winn with JJW.

IMO that would be a STEAL for the Cardinals.

Depends on what Pages turns into. If he becomes a .850-.900 OPS player, then that’s great. If he’s more like a .750-.800 OPS player as he has been during his MLB time and as his metrics look like they could be (his expected numbers are .275 avg and .460 SLG combined with probably a .315ish OBP), then I’ll take the 23 year old SS who has had a .723 OPS player over the last 2 years with stud defense. Put Wetherholt at 2B and have the MIF covered for the next decade. Trade Donovan for a power OFer.

Well his "major league time" refers to his rookie season in 2024 and 98 games this season where's he's blossomed into on of the best hitting OF'er (126 OPS+) in MLB.

And no offense but Donny would NEVER bring back a young, controlled for years power hitting OFer like Pages.

He’s basically Burleson (and Burleson’s metrics are actually better than Pages) with better defense.

Avg
Burly: .293 (xAVG: .288)
Pages: .285 (xAVG: .275)

OBP
Burly: .343
Pages: .326

SLG
Burly: .466 (xSLG: .488)
Pages: .489 (xSLG: .460)

BB%
Burly: 7.1%
Pages: 4.8%

K%
Burly: 13.1%
Pages: 21%

Chase rate
Burly: 32.8%
Pages: 34.8%

Contact%:
Burly: 85.9%
Pages: 79.2%

Zone Contact%:
Burly: 90.8%
Pages: 88.0%

Avg EV
Burly: 91.2 mph
Pages: 88.8 mph

Barrel%
Burleson: 9.3%
Pages: 8.0%

Hard hit%
Burleson: 42.5%
Pages: 38.1%


Is that worth Winn and Helsley?

[rockondlouie]

no thanks

Crazy how many people already want to move Winn

Jobu, it's not "wanting" to get rid of Winn (I'm a big fan) but rather it's structuring a trade idea that actually makes sense.

In this case the Dodgers benefit greatly by strengthening their infield defense and their bullpen.

The Cardinals benefit greatly by acquiring a stud, righthanded hitting OF they control for years.

The Cardinals have JJW playing SS so they have Winn's replacement.

The Dodgers can easily sign K. Tucker to replace Pages in the offseason as well as retain Helsley if they choose to.

You’re really trying to give away Winn.

OPS the last 2 years
Pages: .762
Winn: .723

One plays SS, the other is an OFer. And it’s not like Pages .813 OPS is all that much higher than Winn’s .713. Especially when you factor in elite defense at SS. Winn’s fWAR is 3.0, Pages is 3.2.

And Winn seems to be heating up with an .872 OPS over his last 14 days. Pages is at .709 OPS over his last 28 days and .833 OPS over his last 14.

No "giveaway" at all, fair offer.

2025
Pages
19 HR
.815 OPS
3.1 bWAR

Winn
7 HR
.713 OPS
2.4 bWAR

One plays SS, the other plays CF

And you're IGNORING the Cardinals have NO righthanded hitting OF'ers anywhere close to Pages while having a super talented hitter at Memphis in JJW who's playing SS.

Ok he may not be Winn level defensively but the odds are super strong Winn's not JJW level offensively either, wash.

Again, you can have inane KMOX open line "Let's trade J. Walker and Helsley for A. Pages" ideas

or

You can structure a fair trade.

This is a fair, win-win trade that makes both teams better (especially when you realize the Dodgers can sign K. Tucker if they want to this off season and the Cardinals have JJW ready to step in at SS).

Pages is not the kind of player that I would deal Winn for.

Very low walk rate (4.5%), not a good chase rate (34%), not a great EV (avg 88 mph), not a great barrel% (8%), and a low hard hit% (38%) for a guy that is going to be offense first. He had a great start to the year, other than that he hasn’t shown a ton IMO at the big league level.

So you have no interest in a 24 yr old, right handed hitting OF'er w/power who doesn't hit free agency until 2031

for a weak hitting (career: .257 .308 .386 .694 ), all glove SS who can't steal bases?

I'd make that deal 100 out of 100 times knowing I just added an outstanding hitting righthanded OFer (last one we had was M. Holiday years ago) + I can replace Winn with JJW.

IMO that would be a STEAL for the Cardinals.

Depends on what Pages turns into. If he becomes a .850-.900 OPS player, then that’s great. If he’s more like a .750-.800 OPS player as he has been during his MLB time and as his metrics look like they could be (his expected numbers are .275 avg and .460 SLG combined with probably a .315ish OBP), then I’ll take the 23 year old SS who has had a .723 OPS player over the last 2 years with stud defense. Put Wetherholt at 2B and have the MIF covered for the next decade. Trade Donovan for a power OFer.

Well his "major league time" refers to his rookie season in 2024 and 98 games this season where's he's blossomed into on of the best hitting OF'er (126 OPS+) in MLB.

And no offense but Donny would NEVER bring back a young, controlled for years power hitting OFer like Pages.

He’s basically Burleson (and Burleson’s metrics are actually better than Pages) with better defense.

Avg
Burly: .293 (xAVG: .288)
Pages: .285 (xAVG: .275)

OBP
Burly: .343
Pages: .326

SLG
Burly: .466 (xSLG: .488)
Pages: .489 (xSLG: .460)

BB%
Burly: 7.1%
Pages: 4.8%

K%
Burly: 13.1%
Pages: 21%

Chase rate
Burly: 32.8%
Pages: 34.8%

Contact%:
Burly: 85.9%
Pages: 79.2%

Zone Contact%:
Burly: 90.8%
Pages: 88.0%

Avg EV
Burly: 91.2 mph
Pages: 88.8 mph

Barrel%
Burleson: 9.3%
Pages: 8.0%

Hard hit%
Burleson: 42.5%
Pages: 38.1%


Is that worth Winn and Helsley?

Is Burleson a righthanded hitting, 24 year old who can actually play the OF?

NOPE

Or is he................

How this for a comp?

Player A
2024 - Rookie season
10 HR
47 RBI
.237 .286 .384 .670

2025
26 HR
73 RBI
.270 .305 .555 .860

-vs-

A. Pages
2024 - Rookie season
13 HR
46 RBI
.248 .305 .407 .712

2025
19 HR
63 RBI (and this RBI total is w/Ohtani-Betts-Freeman-Smith-Hernandez and all their RBI's in front of him!)
.285 .326 .489 .815

Player A = P. Crow-Armstrong

[rockondlouie]

no thanks

Crazy how many people already want to move Winn

Jobu, it's not "wanting" to get rid of Winn (I'm a big fan) but rather it's structuring a trade idea that actually makes sense.

In this case the Dodgers benefit greatly by strengthening their infield defense and their bullpen.

The Cardinals benefit greatly by acquiring a stud, righthanded hitting OF they control for years.

The Cardinals have JJW playing SS so they have Winn's replacement.

The Dodgers can easily sign K. Tucker to replace Pages in the offseason as well as retain Helsley if they choose to.

You’re really trying to give away Winn.

OPS the last 2 years
Pages: .762
Winn: .723

One plays SS, the other is an OFer. And it’s not like Pages .813 OPS is all that much higher than Winn’s .713. Especially when you factor in elite defense at SS. Winn’s fWAR is 3.0, Pages is 3.2.

And Winn seems to be heating up with an .872 OPS over his last 14 days. Pages is at .709 OPS over his last 28 days and .833 OPS over his last 14.

No "giveaway" at all, fair offer.

2025
Pages
19 HR
.815 OPS
3.1 bWAR

Winn
7 HR
.713 OPS
2.4 bWAR

One plays SS, the other plays CF

And you're IGNORING the Cardinals have NO righthanded hitting OF'ers anywhere close to Pages while having a super talented hitter at Memphis in JJW who's playing SS.

Ok he may not be Winn level defensively but the odds are super strong Winn's not JJW level offensively either, wash.

Again, you can have inane KMOX open line "Let's trade J. Walker and Helsley for A. Pages" ideas

or

You can structure a fair trade.

This is a fair, win-win trade that makes both teams better (especially when you realize the Dodgers can sign K. Tucker if they want to this off season and the Cardinals have JJW ready to step in at SS).

Pages is not the kind of player that I would deal Winn for.

Very low walk rate (4.5%), not a good chase rate (34%), not a great EV (avg 88 mph), not a great barrel% (8%), and a low hard hit% (38%) for a guy that is going to be offense first. He had a great start to the year, other than that he hasn’t shown a ton IMO at the big league level.

So you have no interest in a 24 yr old, right handed hitting OF'er w/power who doesn't hit free agency until 2031

for a weak hitting (career: .257 .308 .386 .694 ), all glove SS who can't steal bases?

I'd make that deal 100 out of 100 times knowing I just added an outstanding hitting righthanded OFer (last one we had was M. Holiday years ago) + I can replace Winn with JJW.

IMO that would be a STEAL for the Cardinals.

Depends on what Pages turns into. If he becomes a .850-.900 OPS player, then that’s great. If he’s more like a .750-.800 OPS player as he has been during his MLB time and as his metrics look like they could be (his expected numbers are .275 avg and .460 SLG combined with probably a .315ish OBP), then I’ll take the 23 year old SS who has had a .723 OPS player over the last 2 years with stud defense. Put Wetherholt at 2B and have the MIF covered for the next decade. Trade Donovan for a power OFer.

Well his "major league time" refers to his rookie season in 2024 and 98 games this season where's he's blossomed into on of the best hitting OF'er (126 OPS+) in MLB.

And no offense but Donny would NEVER bring back a young, controlled for years power hitting OFer like Pages.

So how about tweaking your deal to Helsley and Donny for Pages and one of their minor leaguers? On MLB radio this morning they were talking about us possibly moving on from Donny in the right deal with JJW beating on the door.

If this were to go through, we have our MIF locked up for a while, plus we add a young right-handed power hitting OF.

I'd do that in a heart beat, Dodgers won't because Donny can't play SS (well) and they want to move Betts back to the OF (where he'd replace Pages in my deal).

If Winn were dealt, then the middle infield would still be locked up w/JJW at SS & Donny at 2B.