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Bernie is as clueless as ME ville

Bushiro wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 08:46 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑14 Jun 2025 14:29 pm The Cardinals are not manipulating anyone's service time. This has been demonstrated over and over again. McGreevy belongs in the rotation and until there is an injury or they move Pallante to the bullpen, opportunity isn't there.

Reset....let the young kids play...see what we have...if that's true then they know what they have with him and it's all about service time

I can't help you if you are hellbent on thinking that.

Mozeliak isn't shelving an asset even when distressed. He's keeping Fedde out there to try to salvage trade value before the deadline. It's been crystal clear if you watch any of Oli's interviews or read anything that Mozeliak has said.

And anyone saying "service time manipulation" simply doesn't understand the concept. McGreevy isn't the type or age of prospect that would apply to.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 09:26 am

Bushiro wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 08:46 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑14 Jun 2025 14:29 pm The Cardinals are not manipulating anyone's service time. This has been demonstrated over and over again. McGreevy belongs in the rotation and until there is an injury or they move Pallante to the bullpen, opportunity isn't there.

Reset....let the young kids play...see what we have...if that's true then they know what they have with him and it's all about service time

I can't help you if you are hellbent on thinking that.

Mozeliak isn't shelving an asset even when distressed. He's keeping Fedde out there to try to salvage trade value before the deadline. It's been crystal clear if you watch any of Oli's interviews or read anything that Mozeliak has said.

And anyone saying "service time manipulation" simply doesn't understand the concept. McGreevy isn't the type or age of prospect that would apply to.

If he had traded Fedde before the season, there wouldn't be a need to salvage trade value. Before the season, another team could have gambled that he was a cheap enough option who showed a solid upside and might have another solid season. Yes, he was a regression risk, but he could continue to progress/adjust. At this point, the question is not will he continue to pitch well, but rather can he pitch better for a contender. If I'm contending, I would pay a bit more for more recent success, esp with a longer track record. Fedde went from a very good value to closer to you get what you pay for.

RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 10:30 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 09:26 am

Bushiro wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 08:46 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑14 Jun 2025 14:29 pm The Cardinals are not manipulating anyone's service time. This has been demonstrated over and over again. McGreevy belongs in the rotation and until there is an injury or they move Pallante to the bullpen, opportunity isn't there.

Reset....let the young kids play...see what we have...if that's true then they know what they have with him and it's all about service time

I can't help you if you are hellbent on thinking that.

Mozeliak isn't shelving an asset even when distressed. He's keeping Fedde out there to try to salvage trade value before the deadline. It's been crystal clear if you watch any of Oli's interviews or read anything that Mozeliak has said.

And anyone saying "service time manipulation" simply doesn't understand the concept. McGreevy isn't the type or age of prospect that would apply to.

If he had traded Fedde before the season, there wouldn't be a need to salvage trade value. Before the season, another team could have gambled that he was a cheap enough option who showed a solid upside and might have another solid season. Yes, he was a regression risk, but he could continue to progress/adjust. At this point, the question is not will he continue to pitch well, but rather can he pitch better for a contender. If I'm contending, I would pay a bit more for more recent success, esp with a longer track record. Fedde went from a very good value to closer to you get what you pay for.

Yeah, and it's not all that dis-similar to the Helsley situation. His value has gone down... there still should presumably be some demand, but not what it was coming off of last season. Mozeliak's non-committal to any strategic direction has hit them again.

Closers are made, not born. They could have moved Helsley and opened up competition to Granillo / Svanson / O'Brien to see if one could take the role. Or maybe Graceffo is the guy if they've already decided to move him off the starter track.

Inaction became Mozeliak's final chapter.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 10:58 amInaction became Mozeliak's final chapter.

Yea, that's a good way to sum it up. People may not have liked it, but there were players the last few years, when it was pretty clear that we did not have great teams, that he could have traded and got something of value for. He passed those opportunities by, whether that was his choices, or BDWII's, who knows, but that's the choices they repeatedly made. And you could probably also say inaction when it comes to pulling the trigger on maybe trading a prospect, many of who did not pan out is we now see.

But yea, inaction, middle of the road, trying to play it safe, not committing to a "reset" or going all in. It just resulted in mediocrity the last few years.

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 14:46 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 10:58 amInaction became Mozeliak's final chapter.

Yea, that's a good way to sum it up. People may not have liked it, but there were players the last few years, when it was pretty clear that we did not have great teams, that he could have traded and got something of value for. He passed those opportunities by, whether that was his choices, or BDWII's, who knows, but that's the choices they repeatedly made. And you could probably also say inaction when it comes to pulling the trigger on maybe trading a prospect, many of who did not pan out is we now see.

But yea, inaction, middle of the road, trying to play it safe, not committing to a "reset" or going all in. It just resulted in mediocrity the last few years.

This is why the Blues FO is more beloved. They play to win as much as they are able to. People can overlook down years, what they can't overlook is a lack of commitment to trying to win.

RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:05 pm

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 14:46 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 10:58 amInaction became Mozeliak's final chapter.

Yea, that's a good way to sum it up. People may not have liked it, but there were players the last few years, when it was pretty clear that we did not have great teams, that he could have traded and got something of value for. He passed those opportunities by, whether that was his choices, or BDWII's, who knows, but that's the choices they repeatedly made. And you could probably also say inaction when it comes to pulling the trigger on maybe trading a prospect, many of who did not pan out is we now see.

But yea, inaction, middle of the road, trying to play it safe, not committing to a "reset" or going all in. It just resulted in mediocrity the last few years.

This is why the Blues FO is more beloved. They play to win as much as they are able to. People can overlook down years, what they can't overlook is a lack of commitment to trying to win.

lol - more teams get in the hockey playoffs and the Blues were just a one and done

kyace wrote: ↑14 Jun 2025 14:26 pm So this shows they are not concerned with winning this year if you don’t play your best players. Might as well start the selling sooner than later

Winning what? If you say World Series, then you need professional help. And what good is a playoff win for the future? It's not, especially if it means not taking steps to improve for the long run when the opportunity is knocking.
They don't want to tank like the Cubs and Astros did for 3-5 years in order to get to a WS, but they won't risk the future for a team that can't go far.

Main point: Why would you not want to trade the pending free agents to at least try to improve for the long run?

dugoutrex wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:15 pm

RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:05 pm

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 14:46 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 10:58 amInaction became Mozeliak's final chapter.

Yea, that's a good way to sum it up. People may not have liked it, but there were players the last few years, when it was pretty clear that we did not have great teams, that he could have traded and got something of value for. He passed those opportunities by, whether that was his choices, or BDWII's, who knows, but that's the choices they repeatedly made. And you could probably also say inaction when it comes to pulling the trigger on maybe trading a prospect, many of who did not pan out is we now see.

But yea, inaction, middle of the road, trying to play it safe, not committing to a "reset" or going all in. It just resulted in mediocrity the last few years.

This is why the Blues FO is more beloved. They play to win as much as they are able to. People can overlook down years, what they can't overlook is a lack of commitment to trying to win.

lol - more teams get in the hockey playoffs and the Blues were just a one and done

You are completely missing the point, obviously. People view the Blues as a team that aims to win vs. MO'S Cardinals aiming to be 'competitive'. That is he is more interested in not ever risking a down year than trying to win, even in a promising year such as 2015 or 2019. There is never sny sense anymore that 'this could be their year'. Its like lets be good enough to try and locate a playoff spot and hope for the best.

In 2011, they knew they had a good team but were missing a few pieces. At TLR prompting they were very active rather than making a half*ssed effort. Nobody expects all in every year, but going into a year but having a 100+ paced win team playing over its head and not sending serious injury reinforcements was a kick in the teeth to the 2015 team. Like saying your effort isn't worth the risk. They missed the playoffs the next three seasons. You tell a team you won't reward them with a better shot at winning for playing hard and playing for team, the team will get the message and make sure their personal interests come first