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An Old Friend wrote: ↑21 May 2025 09:40 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑21 May 2025 08:41 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑21 May 2025 08:34 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑21 May 2025 08:02 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑21 May 2025 08:00 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑20 May 2025 21:58 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑20 May 2025 21:48 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑20 May 2025 21:41 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑20 May 2025 20:39 pm The time to do it was 1-2 years ago.

You also said, after the 2021 season, the Cards should lock up O'Neil for 4-5 years for 50ish mil.

I don’t recall opining that at all.

I think you did, but let's move on. I don't want to have a negative back and forth with you.

We wouldn't have so many of those interactions if you wouldn't just make things up. You don't get to just misremember a conversation, "think" I said something that I didn't, claim that as a basis of your argument, and then say "don't fight me on this thing I'm claiming you said that you might not have actually said"...

Get it?

I didn't suggest what you're claiming. If you don't want to have a negative back and forth, you'll accept that as the truth. Up to you.

Yeah, you did.

4 or 5 years, over 50mil.

You said it…

But, looks bad now. So you deny.

OK, so when you said you didn't want to get into a negative back and forth, you were lying about that, too.

Hey, I gave you a chance.

As an aside, the fictitious deal you're beating me up over is almost exactly what he's made/making in those 5 years.
2022-2026 salaries = $47.2MM

You're the one who kept bumping it, brother. I changed the subject and wanted to talk about Donovan.

You changed the subject and made up another story... let's be real.

I've said for awhile that they should have extended guys like Edman and Donovan in years prior. There's no need for you to be dishonest here, AGAIN, and say I just started mentioning extending players.

It's kind of funny that out of one side of your mouth, you're saying I've advocated for extensions for years... but the other side, you're saying it just came up in the last couple of months.

It's impossible to keep your story straight when you're making up the details as you go along.

About your proposed deal for O'Neil: You just started talking about extending Donovan like three weeks ago. I'm guessing because of Donovan's big April. ONeill had a huge entire 2021 season. Why is it so out of the question that you wouldn't chirp about extending O'Neill?

I don't know why you think that. I've mentioned Donovan and Edman together numerous times as ideal extension candidates.

Lastly, yeah, ONeill makin' that money. Has played 305 games in 3+ seasons wth a 4.0 WAR.

OK, I'm glad we can finally be done talking about your made up deal that you've attributed to me.

2022 - 2024 Salaries: $14.2MM
2022 - 2024 Value (per Fangraphs): $35.7MM

imetsatchelpaige wrote: ↑21 May 2025 09:44 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑20 May 2025 18:04 pm Or maybe trade him once JJ is ready?

Not the sexiest option, especially since BD is playing like a beast, but with Miko, Matz, Maton and Fedde off the books, and Gray done just a year later, pitching could be a hole.

You do not trade Donovan. Ever.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑21 May 2025 09:58 am IMO

The Cardinals need to lock up both Donny & Noot

Buyout their remaining ARB years plus three-four years of FA if they're open to it.

Then you build around those two as your veteran core (along w/WillyC and possibly NADO if he stays) coupled w/the new young core of Hererra, Winn and VSII and you've got a nice start to an everyday lineup.

Just needs that true MOTO slugger to be elite for years.

Plenty of payroll space to sign one or for Bloom to deal for if he can.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑21 May 2025 10:01 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑21 May 2025 09:58 am IMO

The Cardinals need to lock up both Donny & Noot

Buyout their remaining ARB years plus three-four years of FA if they're open to it.

Then you build around those two as your veteran core (along w/WillyC and possibly NADO if he stays) coupled w/the new young core of Hererra, Winn and VSII and you've got a nice start to an everyday lineup.

Just needs that true MOTO slugger to be elite for years.

Plenty of payroll space to sign one or for Bloom to deal for if he can.

That’s all in the plan.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑21 May 2025 10:03 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑21 May 2025 10:01 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑21 May 2025 09:58 am IMO

The Cardinals need to lock up both Donny & Noot

Buyout their remaining ARB years plus three-four years of FA if they're open to it.

Then you build around those two as your veteran core (along w/WillyC and possibly NADO if he stays) coupled w/the new young core of Hererra, Winn and VSII and you've got a nice start to an everyday lineup.

Just needs that true MOTO slugger to be elite for years.

Plenty of payroll space to sign one or for Bloom to deal for if he can.

That’s all in the plan.

No one would've thought we could've landed Goldy (except me since he was my OP suggestion ) or NADO so it's possible Bloom can find that MOTO stud!

ramfandan wrote: ↑21 May 2025 10:07 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑21 May 2025 10:03 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑21 May 2025 10:01 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑21 May 2025 09:58 am IMO

The Cardinals need to lock up both Donny & Noot

Buyout their remaining ARB years plus three-four years of FA if they're open to it.

Then you build around those two as your veteran core (along w/WillyC and possibly NADO if he stays) coupled w/the new young core of Hererra, Winn and VSII and you've got a nice start to an everyday lineup.

Just needs that true MOTO slugger to be elite for years.

Plenty of payroll space to sign one or for Bloom to deal for if he can.

That’s all in the plan.

No one would've thought we could've landed Goldy (except me since he was my OP suggestion ) or NADO so it's possible Bloom can find that MOTO stud!

Tatis Jr. my suggestion for Bloom. Go Cards!

rockondlouie wrote: ↑21 May 2025 09:58 am IMO

The Cardinals need to lock up both Donny & Noot

Buyout their remaining ARB years plus three-four years of FA if they're open to it.

Then you build around those two as your veteran core (along w/WillyC and possibly NADO if he stays) coupled w/the new young core of Hererra, Winn and VSII and you've got a nice start to an everyday lineup.

Just needs that true MOTO slugger to be elite for years.

Plenty of payroll space to sign one or for Bloom to deal for if he can.

JDW wrote: ↑21 May 2025 10:14 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑21 May 2025 09:58 am IMO

The Cardinals need to lock up both Donny & Noot

Buyout their remaining ARB years plus three-four years of FA if they're open to it.

Then you build around those two as your veteran core (along w/WillyC and possibly NADO if he stays) coupled w/the new young core of Hererra, Winn and VSII and you've got a nice start to an everyday lineup.

Just needs that true MOTO slugger to be elite for years.

Plenty of payroll space to sign one or for Bloom to deal for if he can.

Agree with trying to extend Donovan and Noot.
As far as a MOTOB, Herrera has a chance to be that guy.
Possibly could have a Donovan, Noot, Herrera, Winn, Scott, Wetherholt and Crooks and/or Bernal for the position core.
Possibly could have a Libs, Pallante and Mathews SP core.
Cards are in good position moving forward.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑21 May 2025 09:46 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑21 May 2025 09:40 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑21 May 2025 08:41 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑21 May 2025 08:34 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑21 May 2025 08:02 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑21 May 2025 08:00 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑20 May 2025 21:58 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑20 May 2025 21:48 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑20 May 2025 21:41 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑20 May 2025 20:39 pm The time to do it was 1-2 years ago.

You also said, after the 2021 season, the Cards should lock up O'Neil for 4-5 years for 50ish mil.

I don’t recall opining that at all.

I think you did, but let's move on. I don't want to have a negative back and forth with you.

We wouldn't have so many of those interactions if you wouldn't just make things up. You don't get to just misremember a conversation, "think" I said something that I didn't, claim that as a basis of your argument, and then say "don't fight me on this thing I'm claiming you said that you might not have actually said"...

Get it?

I didn't suggest what you're claiming. If you don't want to have a negative back and forth, you'll accept that as the truth. Up to you.

Yeah, you did.

4 or 5 years, over 50mil.

You said it…

But, looks bad now. So you deny.

OK, so when you said you didn't want to get into a negative back and forth, you were lying about that, too.

Hey, I gave you a chance.

As an aside, the fictitious deal you're beating me up over is almost exactly what he's made/making in those 5 years.
2022-2026 salaries = $47.2MM

You're the one who kept bumping it, brother. I changed the subject and wanted to talk about Donovan.

You changed the subject and made up another story... let's be real.

I've said for awhile that they should have extended guys like Edman and Donovan in years prior. There's no need for you to be dishonest here, AGAIN, and say I just started mentioning extending players.

It's kind of funny that out of one side of your mouth, you're saying I've advocated for extensions for years... but the other side, you're saying it just came up in the last couple of months.

It's impossible to keep your story straight when you're making up the details as you go along.

About your proposed deal for O'Neil: You just started talking about extending Donovan like three weeks ago. I'm guessing because of Donovan's big April. ONeill had a huge entire 2021 season. Why is it so out of the question that you wouldn't chirp about extending O'Neill?

I don't know why you think that. I've mentioned Donovan and Edman together numerous times as ideal extension candidates.

Lastly, yeah, ONeill makin' that money. Has played 305 games in 3+ seasons wth a 4.0 WAR.

OK, I'm glad we can finally be done talking about your made up deal that you've attributed to me.

2022 - 2024 Salaries: $14.2MM
2022 - 2024 Value (per Fangraphs): $35.7MM

You may have mentioned Donovan extension before. But, like a lot of examples, when the stats stop supporting your assertions, you fade into the bushes, like Homer Simpson.

Then Donovan has a great April: "Hey, I'm back! We should've extended him Remember I said that two years ago then stopped?!"

You did the same thing with Libby in April.

You did the same thing with O'Neill last year when he got hot w Boston.

And similarly, your Siani talk ceased once Scott began tearing up spring training.

And no, O'Neill for 5 year / 50mil would've been dumb.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑21 May 2025 10:46 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑21 May 2025 09:46 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑21 May 2025 09:40 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑21 May 2025 08:41 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑21 May 2025 08:34 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑21 May 2025 08:02 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑21 May 2025 08:00 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑20 May 2025 21:58 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑20 May 2025 21:48 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑20 May 2025 21:41 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑20 May 2025 20:39 pm The time to do it was 1-2 years ago.

You also said, after the 2021 season, the Cards should lock up O'Neil for 4-5 years for 50ish mil.

I don’t recall opining that at all.

I think you did, but let's move on. I don't want to have a negative back and forth with you.

We wouldn't have so many of those interactions if you wouldn't just make things up. You don't get to just misremember a conversation, "think" I said something that I didn't, claim that as a basis of your argument, and then say "don't fight me on this thing I'm claiming you said that you might not have actually said"...

Get it?

I didn't suggest what you're claiming. If you don't want to have a negative back and forth, you'll accept that as the truth. Up to you.

Yeah, you did.

4 or 5 years, over 50mil.

You said it…

But, looks bad now. So you deny.

OK, so when you said you didn't want to get into a negative back and forth, you were lying about that, too.

Hey, I gave you a chance.

As an aside, the fictitious deal you're beating me up over is almost exactly what he's made/making in those 5 years.
2022-2026 salaries = $47.2MM

You're the one who kept bumping it, brother. I changed the subject and wanted to talk about Donovan.

You changed the subject and made up another story... let's be real.

I've said for awhile that they should have extended guys like Edman and Donovan in years prior. There's no need for you to be dishonest here, AGAIN, and say I just started mentioning extending players.

It's kind of funny that out of one side of your mouth, you're saying I've advocated for extensions for years... but the other side, you're saying it just came up in the last couple of months.

It's impossible to keep your story straight when you're making up the details as you go along.

About your proposed deal for O'Neil: You just started talking about extending Donovan like three weeks ago. I'm guessing because of Donovan's big April. ONeill had a huge entire 2021 season. Why is it so out of the question that you wouldn't chirp about extending O'Neill?

I don't know why you think that. I've mentioned Donovan and Edman together numerous times as ideal extension candidates.

Lastly, yeah, ONeill makin' that money. Has played 305 games in 3+ seasons wth a 4.0 WAR.

OK, I'm glad we can finally be done talking about your made up deal that you've attributed to me.

2022 - 2024 Salaries: $14.2MM
2022 - 2024 Value (per Fangraphs): $35.7MM

You may have mentioned Donovan extension before. But, like a lot of examples, when the stats stop supporting your assertions, you fade into the bushes, like Homer Simpson.

So you acknowledge that I have mentioned previous to when you claimed... which is also an acknowledgement that your claims on all these things are just pulled out of your butt on a whim.

Then Donovan has a great April: "Hey, I'm back! We should've extended him Remember I said that two years ago then stopped?!"

You did the same thing with Libby in April.

You want to re-litigate this... again?! After your previous thread on it got removed because of your own buffoonery?

Everyone knows I've been perhaps the loudest AND most consistent advocate of Liberatore on this forum. To act like that isn't the case is beyond dishonest. I don't know why you do it.

It's funny that for years, I've talked about how they mishandled him by shuffling between starting and the rotation, and you ripped that opinion endlessly. Now that the team has acknowledged that they mucked that up, that he wasn't set up for success, and that he needed that consistency that being in the rotation provides, you've not once owned up to you being wrong... and that maybe my opinion did merit some consideration after all.

So, cordially, FOH on the Liberatore chatter.

You did the same thing with O'Neill last year when he got hot w Boston.

And similarly, your Siani talk ceased once Scott began tearing up spring training.

It's weird that you've also misrepresented the Siani conversation. You really want to go back to arguing against my position that big league jobs should be earned?

Stop it.

And no, O'Neill for 5 year / 50mil would've been dumb.

FTR, you're calling your own made up proposal for Tyler O'Neill dumb. Pretty funny

ecleme22 wrote: ↑21 May 2025 11:12 am You said Scott should definitely start in AAA because he hasn't earned anything.

You have been a Libby supporter since 2020. But you have hedged your bets (went silent) when he wasn't performing.

And no, I'm calling your O'Neill proposal dumb.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑20 May 2025 21:58 pm I don't want to have a negative back and forth with you.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑21 May 2025 11:31 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑21 May 2025 11:12 am You said Scott should definitely start in AAA because he hasn't earned anything.

No, I said big league jobs should be earned and not given based on prospect status. That relates to not just Scott. He was just the most recent example. Both he and Walker were given major league jobs before they were ready.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑21 May 2025 12:21 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑21 May 2025 11:31 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑21 May 2025 11:12 am You said Scott should definitely start in AAA because he hasn't earned anything.

No, I said big league jobs should be earned and not given based on prospect status. That relates to not just Scott. He was just the most recent example. Both he and Walker were given major league jobs before they were ready.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑21 May 2025 13:06 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑21 May 2025 12:21 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑21 May 2025 11:31 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑21 May 2025 11:12 am You said Scott should definitely start in AAA because he hasn't earned anything.

No, I said big league jobs should be earned and not given based on prospect status. That relates to not just Scott. He was just the most recent example. Both he and Walker were given major league jobs before they were ready.

I like that your attempted flex shows exactly what I just said, again. Guys need to earn jobs instead of being handed them due to prospect status.

Well done.