STLtoday.com

Youboughtit wrote: ↑10 May 2025 20:55 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑10 May 2025 20:28 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑10 May 2025 19:34 pm Right. We're hitting on pretty much all cylinders, have the bullpen playing well, starters doing great, and only 2 games behind the Cubbies. So let's trade.

No kidding. Nobodies making significant trades in May

This team is NOT a contender. Matz Mikolas and Helsley are pending FA and Aranado is clearly not going to be here next season. There are so many holes to fill for the future how do you plan on doing it when spending is not an option? Holding pat would be the dumbest decision MO has ever made and that says alot. Bullpen is NOT playing well. The last 4 starters have went 7+ innings. They are bypassing the bullpen. Selling high is the smart move and I beleive teams that trade early will get the best results like last year. Waiting till deadline lessens the return.

Often teams arent looking to trade this early and want to see if their internal options can rise to occasion like their own mcgreevy in minor league before actually paying prospects for a mikolas or fedde. Or not waste they think a guy will be back from injury and then they could have crowded rotation. And they generally give struggking players time to see if they can rigjt the ship. Thazs why you see almost no trades this early.

Youboughtit wrote: ↑10 May 2025 20:56 pmFor Matz or Mikolas who are pending FA a hard throwing bullpen arm would be a steal

True. That is a good point.

Colotiger wrote: ↑10 May 2025 19:17 pm Gray has a NTC and indicated in the off-season he didn’t want to be traded. Has his position changed?

Gray and Mikolas have NTC's

Gray won't waive we know as he's stated many times he wants to stay here and mentor the young pitchers, perhaps Mikolas in his last yr of his deal would knowing C. Bloom isn't going to extend him an offer?

11WSChamps wrote: ↑10 May 2025 23:18 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑10 May 2025 22:56 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑10 May 2025 22:53 pm

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑10 May 2025 21:25 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑10 May 2025 20:55 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑10 May 2025 20:28 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑10 May 2025 19:34 pm Right. We're hitting on pretty much all cylinders, have the bullpen playing well, starters doing great, and only 2 games behind the Cubbies. So let's trade.

No kidding. Nobodies making significant trades in May

This team is NOT a contender. Matz Mikolas and Helsley are pending FA and Aranado is clearly not going to be here next season. There are so many holes to fill for the future how do you plan on doing it when spending is not an option? Holding pat would be the dumbest decision MO has ever made and that says alot. Bullpen is NOT playing well. The last 4 starters have went 7+ innings. They are bypassing the bullpen. Selling high is the smart move and I beleive teams that trade early will get the best results like last year. Waiting till deadline lessens the return.

With all due respect, you sound exactly like the thousands of idiots inundating Blues forums this past season. All season long it was "Blues aren't real contenders! The re-tool's a bust--give it up now for a total rebuild! Trade everyone for top-5 picks!"

2 months of good hockey later and 2 seconds away from winning the first round against the best team in the regular season and the Blues look like an up-and-coming powerhouse with a terrific mix of vets and young talent.

Ever wonder why NO team has a firesale in May? Because no team and no one, least of all internet trolls, are certain of their season's outcome 1/4 of the way in. Get over yourself and go back to your bridge, troll-lah-lah.

Apples and oranges.

You're talking about a salary cap league vs one that isn't.

Blues did not have pending FA with trade value and were further along in rebuild. Cardinals have many holes that need addressed and the owner does not want to spend.

The Blues have players to build around..the Cardinals not so much.

3 months ago, many Blues fans--the doomsdayers--mostly, thought the Blues had no ONE to build around. It was the same old sad stories every day:

-Thomas doesn't shoot
-Kyrou's soft and can't play D
-Parayko's back will never hold up
-Binnington has horrible regular-season numbers
-Schenn's an overthehill 3rd line center

And it was trade everyone now while they still have value and tank the season for top-5 picks so they can MAYBE compete by 2028-30.

Cardinals situation is almost exactly the same as the Blues. You're telling me Noot, Wynn, Donovan, Herrera, VSIII, Palante, Libby, McG and hopefully at least one or two of Burly, JWalk, Gorman. Do you think these are fake wins they've produced in convincing fashion now 7 days in a row?

I don't think Cards will win out but they have a lot of good, young talent to build around and with how weak the NLC is, it makes WAY more sense to compete and sell tickets and try for a playoff push while exposing these kids to it than it does to dump vets for a total rebuild.

As the Blues have shown.

What do people think the Cards could get in return for Mikolas?? His price tag is huge (75% of $17.6M), and he has an NTC. Clearly, they should try, but I don't see any decent value coming back.

Fedde or Matz seems much more likely, and they could bring back value. Trade both and they still have five starters (Gray, Miko, Pallante, Libby and McGreevy). And I see Leahy as a potential SP next year and Roby as a RP with Graceffo. Too bad Quinn Mathews has nosedived as he was looking like a legit SP (let's hope he's ready for 2026). Long-shot = Chen-Wei Lin, who has only pitched a few innings as he's somehow only in A ball at age 23.

We are in a good position.

The first good position we are in is that we have choices. This, of course, is great whether they sell or not.

The second good position we are in is that there is talent on this team- some young and some veteran. This is helpful no matter what the goals of the team are. If they decide to sell, there are many useful players here. When they are producing is a great time to ask for a better return.

Thirdly, we are in good position (at least currently) because we are winning. Even if they decide to sell, a winning team has more leverage in trades than the Rockies or the Pirates.

I hope they will take the opportunity to move several guys. They have a unique chance to do that this year, They have multiple desirable players and a window devoted to player development. They could really minimize the time it takes by bringing in additional young players. I'm not suggesting they trade all of the veterans and get back a dozen prospects we have never heard of. They should focus on devoting all of the trade capital they can to bringing in 2-3 young players who could be difference makers. If they decide to buy, do not buy rentals. Whichever direction they go, it should be with the moves that serve the team best over the next 500 games.

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑10 May 2025 20:00 pm Eh, I'm not so sure I'd want a trade to focus on a closer. First of all, I'd rather focus on getting back a starter or position player. Second, I'd rather develop my closer from within. Third, looks like the organization is grooming Graceffo for that role.

Correct.
In MLB most closers are stumbled across rather than truly developed.
STL is near certain to take a "committee" approach as a means of winnowing it down.
Graceffo is one they obviously have an eye on - but I suspect they would prefer him as a starter next year.
Hence will inevitably be moved to the BP.
Hjerpe is on that same trajectory.
Leahy is near certain to be given greater exposure to late inning high leverage spots if he continues to pitch as he has so far this season.
That is how STL will find their next closer.
As for trading Mikolas and Matz - yes, of course that should happen regardless of where STL is at in the July standings.
Probably smart to keep Fedde if the team still has a shot to compete for the Central at that point and simple settle for the comp pick in the off-season.
As to what position to target, it could not be more obvious.
With Gray and Liberatore locked up, the rotation has a foundation.
Pallante can probably sustain a back-of-the-rotation spot.
In 2026, that leaves McGreevy, and probably Graceffo, the leading contenders for 2 open rotation jobs.
Mathews should be back on track by then.
Roby as well.
Look for STL to add one cheap, veteran, insurance veteran arm next off-season.
The infield, with Winn, Donovan, Gorman, Saggese, Contreras - and Wetherholt on the way - has sufficient talent to succeed.
Herrera may possibly add to the mix at DH.
Catcher spot is fine with what is on hand and in the pipeline.
Which leaves one glaring, massive hole:
The team needs one established, productive, reliable, all-star quality corner outfielder.
And a legit prospect for that role for added depth.
THAT is the only thing STL should target when shopping Matz, Mikolas, N/A and a couple of others expendable resources between now and the July deadline.

ClassicO wrote: ↑11 May 2025 09:05 am What do people think the Cards could get in return for Mikolas?? His price tag is huge (75% of $17.6M), and he has an NTC. Clearly, they should try, but I don't see any decent value coming back.

Fedde or Matz seems much more likely, and they could bring back value. Trade both and they still have five starters (Gray, Miko, Pallante, Libby and McGreevy). And I see Leahy as a potential SP next year and Roby as a RP with Graceffo. Too bad Quinn Mathews has nosedived as he was looking like a legit SP (let's hope he's ready for 2026). Long-shot = Chen-Wei Lin, who has only pitched a few innings as he's somehow only in A ball at age 23.

Teams are starving for SP. a hard throwing AA bullpen arm that has a chance to become a late inning RP

Wattage wrote: ↑11 May 2025 07:38 am

Youboughtit wrote: ↑10 May 2025 20:55 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑10 May 2025 20:28 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑10 May 2025 19:34 pm Right. We're hitting on pretty much all cylinders, have the bullpen playing well, starters doing great, and only 2 games behind the Cubbies. So let's trade.

No kidding. Nobodies making significant trades in May

This team is NOT a contender. Matz Mikolas and Helsley are pending FA and Aranado is clearly not going to be here next season. There are so many holes to fill for the future how do you plan on doing it when spending is not an option? Holding pat would be the dumbest decision MO has ever made and that says alot. Bullpen is NOT playing well. The last 4 starters have went 7+ innings. They are bypassing the bullpen. Selling high is the smart move and I beleive teams that trade early will get the best results like last year. Waiting till deadline lessens the return.

Often teams arent looking to trade this early and want to see if their internal options can rise to occasion like their own mcgreevy in minor league before actually paying prospects for a mikolas or fedde. Or not waste they think a guy will be back from injury and then they could have crowded rotation. And they generally give struggking players time to see if they can rigjt the ship. Thazs why you see almost no trades this early.

Most Sap injuries I’ve seen for contenders are season ending except the Dodgers

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑11 May 2025 00:01 am

greyhawk wrote: ↑10 May 2025 19:11 pm The orioles are a great team to target -- full of upside young talent that currently isn't playing well.

Orioles and Real Contenders can't be used in the same sentence (or post) this month. Cards are much more of a contender than the O's are. We can keep those SPs and maybe extend Fedde.

Their offense is at that level. Fedde is not a good extension candidate just because of 1 game. I think he is a below average SP like his career #s show

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑11 May 2025 00:04 am

Youboughtit wrote: ↑10 May 2025 21:01 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑10 May 2025 20:56 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑10 May 2025 20:55 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑10 May 2025 20:28 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑10 May 2025 19:34 pm Right. We're hitting on pretty much all cylinders, have the bullpen playing well, starters doing great, and only 2 games behind the Cubbies. So let's trade.

No kidding. Nobodies making significant trades in May

This team is NOT a contender. Matz Mikolas and Helsley are pending FA and Aranado is clearly not going to be here next season. There are so many holes to fill for the future how do you plan on doing it when spending is not an option? Holding pat would be the dumbest decision MO has ever made and that says alot. Bullpen is NOT playing well. The last 4 starters have went 7+ innings. They are bypassing the bullpen. Selling high is the smart move and I beleive teams that trade early will get the best results like last year. Waiting till deadline lessens the return.

No it doesn't

Yes it does. You’re thinking of 20 years ago. There are far more sellers than buyers. First to the market gets the deal. Others end up with nothing.

Then we should become a buyer. By your logic, the talent out there is cheap because so many sellers can't find buyers and the remaining holes in this lineup can be easily filled.

Exactly . Buy through trades because the owner is cheap. That’s my point

The trade deadline is when anything will happen. We have expiring contracts that will be moved, regardless of where we are at.

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑11 May 2025 08:57 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑10 May 2025 23:18 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑10 May 2025 22:56 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑10 May 2025 22:53 pm

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑10 May 2025 21:25 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑10 May 2025 20:55 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑10 May 2025 20:28 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑10 May 2025 19:34 pm Right. We're hitting on pretty much all cylinders, have the bullpen playing well, starters doing great, and only 2 games behind the Cubbies. So let's trade.

No kidding. Nobodies making significant trades in May

This team is NOT a contender. Matz Mikolas and Helsley are pending FA and Aranado is clearly not going to be here next season. There are so many holes to fill for the future how do you plan on doing it when spending is not an option? Holding pat would be the dumbest decision MO has ever made and that says alot. Bullpen is NOT playing well. The last 4 starters have went 7+ innings. They are bypassing the bullpen. Selling high is the smart move and I beleive teams that trade early will get the best results like last year. Waiting till deadline lessens the return.

With all due respect, you sound exactly like the thousands of idiots inundating Blues forums this past season. All season long it was "Blues aren't real contenders! The re-tool's a bust--give it up now for a total rebuild! Trade everyone for top-5 picks!"

2 months of good hockey later and 2 seconds away from winning the first round against the best team in the regular season and the Blues look like an up-and-coming powerhouse with a terrific mix of vets and young talent.

Ever wonder why NO team has a firesale in May? Because no team and no one, least of all internet trolls, are certain of their season's outcome 1/4 of the way in. Get over yourself and go back to your bridge, troll-lah-lah.

Apples and oranges.

You're talking about a salary cap league vs one that isn't.

Blues did not have pending FA with trade value and were further along in rebuild. Cardinals have many holes that need addressed and the owner does not want to spend.

The Blues have players to build around..the Cardinals not so much.

3 months ago, many Blues fans--the doomsdayers--mostly, thought the Blues had no ONE to build around. It was the same old sad stories every day:

-Thomas doesn't shoot
-Kyrou's soft and can't play D
-Parayko's back will never hold up
-Binnington has horrible regular-season numbers
-Schenn's an overthehill 3rd line center

And it was trade everyone now while they still have value and tank the season for top-5 picks so they can MAYBE compete by 2028-30.

Cardinals situation is almost exactly the same as the Blues. You're telling me Noot, Wynn, Donovan, Herrera, VSIII, Palante, Libby, McG and hopefully at least one or two of Burly, JWalk, Gorman. Do you think these are fake wins they've produced in convincing fashion now 7 days in a row?

I don't think Cards will win out but they have a lot of good, young talent to build around and with how weak the NLC is, it makes WAY more sense to compete and sell tickets and try for a playoff push while exposing these kids to it than it does to dump vets for a total rebuild.

As the Blues have shown.

+1

I don't trust the people saying they should sell.

imetsatchelpaige wrote: ↑11 May 2025 10:16 am The trade deadline is when anything will happen. We have expiring contracts that will be moved, regardless of where we are at.

Look if we get another Drew Rom prospect then no trade. I would rather offer QO for Fedde and Helsley.

thetank2 wrote: ↑11 May 2025 10:23 am

imetsatchelpaige wrote: ↑11 May 2025 10:16 am The trade deadline is when anything will happen. We have expiring contracts that will be moved, regardless of where we are at.

Look if we get another Drew Rom prospect then no trade. I would rather offer QO for Fedde and Helsley.

Agree with you on the "Rom-type" prospects. Would you be ok tying up $42M in Fedde and Helsley for next season?

imetsatchelpaige wrote: ↑11 May 2025 10:16 am The trade deadline is when anything will happen. We have expiring contracts that will be moved, regardless of where we are at.

Moves get earlier every year. Last year the big trades were weak before the deadline and then it slowed because so few buyers. Waiting till the last day means the buyers have advantage and less return