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Re: Liberatore is not a SP
Posted: 07 Apr 2025 21:39 pm
by swatski
Start a reliever, let him pitch 1 inning, then bring Libby out of the pen. Problem solved.
Re: Liberatore is not a SP
Posted: 07 Apr 2025 21:42 pm
by An Old Friend
CardsBest wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 21:35 pm
An Old Friend wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 20:46 pm
CardsBest wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 20:39 pm
RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 18:52 pm
Literally, Mo is an idiot. How many times does he have to have Liberatore in the starting rotation and fail before he accepts that he has more value in the BP? I mean WTF Gus?
Is Mo trying to completely destroy his value? Still if it's between him and Mikolas... we'll good knowing you lizard man, don't let the door hit your (bleep) on the way out.
At this point I would rather see Matz and McGreevy starting than Mikolas and Lib.
Matz over Liberatore is goofy AF.
You have always been for Lib as starter and this is his 4th year falling at it. He is better in the pen. You are goody AF thinking he is going to be a good starter. Liberatore had career 5.79 ERA coming into tonight and it went up after tonight. Matz has career 4.35ERA and in 2023 started 17 games with 4.04ERA. This is a lost season and they already talked about having Matz as a starter. If Matz is a starter and performs as he can they can flip him at the deadline.
You make up some weird stuff. 4th year?!
Who are you mistaking him for? This is his first year making the rotation.
Re: Liberatore is not a SP
Posted: 07 Apr 2025 21:43 pm
by An Old Friend
Wattage wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 21:29 pm
An Old Friend wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 21:15 pm
Wattage wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 21:10 pm
Strummer Jones wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 19:53 pm
I disagree. And I didn't think I'd say that. Libby's been about as good as you could hope for our #5
Name me all the teams that have 5th starters with 5.84 eras that start a full year. No a near 6 era is not as good as you can hope for from a 5th starter. Good grief. Bit would rank as bottim 3 in the league most years. Plenty of teams have 5th starters with sub 5 eras
Judging a pitcher by their ERA after two starts is nonsensical.
Im not judging him from 2 starts. Im judging the statement that "this is all and the best you can expect from a 5th starter" statement that i replied to.
If you want to argue this is a short sample soze and he deserves an extended look since competing isnt the goal this year but developing youth, im fine with that.
But saying thats this is as good as youncan hopenfor from a 5th starter is still a nonsensical statement. You are arguing a completely different point that i wasnt arguing.
2.36 FIP / 2.54 xFIP
That’s good so far.
Re: Liberatore is not a SP
Posted: 07 Apr 2025 21:54 pm
by Strummer Jones
Wattage wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 21:10 pm
Strummer Jones wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 19:53 pm
I disagree. And I didn't think I'd say that. Libby's been about as good as you could hope for our #5
Name me all the teams that have 5th starters with 5.84 eras that start a full year. No a near 6 era is not as good as you can hope for from a 5th starter. Good grief. Bit would rank as bottim 3 in the league most years. Plenty of teams have 5th starters with sub 5 eras
It's also two starts, my dude. Not to mention that Roycroft is the one who really screwed the pooch today. Granted, the "it's early" response could just as easily be used in response to this, but his peripherals look fine. Doesn't look like the Libby from years past. He's keeping his velo deeper into games. Usually he'd be hucking up whatever junk his fastball had become by the 4th inning. He still had juice today. That's a positive for me.
Re: Liberatore is not a SP
Posted: 07 Apr 2025 21:55 pm
by CardsBest
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 21:37 pm
CardsBest wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 21:35 pm
An Old Friend wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 20:46 pm
CardsBest wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 20:39 pm
RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 18:52 pm
Literally, Mo is an idiot. How many times does he have to have Liberatore in the starting rotation and fail before he accepts that he has more value in the BP? I mean WTF Gus?
Is Mo trying to completely destroy his value? Still if it's between him and Mikolas... we'll good knowing you lizard man, don't let the door hit your (bleep) on the way out.
At this point I would rather see Matz and McGreevy starting than Mikolas and Lib.
Matz over Liberatore is goofy AF.
You have always been for Lib as starter and this is his 4th year falling at it. He is better in the pen. You are goody AF thinking he is going to be a good starter. Liberatore had career 5.79 ERA coming into tonight and it went up after tonight. Matz has career 4.35ERA and in 2023 started 17 games with 4.04ERA. This is a lost season and they already talked about having Matz as a starter. If Matz is a starter and performs as he can they can flip him at the deadline.
This is the first year hes getting a legitimate chance to start
They have tried him in each of the last 4 years and he has sucked as a starter. He has had a lot of starts between majors and minors and not performed.
2022 29GS
2022 AAA 22GS 5.17ERA in AAA bad
2022 MLB 5.97 ERA w/7GS
2023 24GS
2023 AAA 13GS 4.18 ERA in AAA not good when facing lesser hitters in AAA.
2023 MLB 11GS 5.88 ERA
2024 MLB 6GS 6.35ERA
2025 MLB 2GS 5.84ERA
There is nothing to get excited about with Lib as a starter. He also comes across as weak mentally.
Re: Liberatore is not a SP
Posted: 07 Apr 2025 21:57 pm
by Ozziesfan41
CardsBest wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 21:55 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 21:37 pm
CardsBest wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 21:35 pm
An Old Friend wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 20:46 pm
CardsBest wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 20:39 pm
RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 18:52 pm
Literally, Mo is an idiot. How many times does he have to have Liberatore in the starting rotation and fail before he accepts that he has more value in the BP? I mean WTF Gus?
Is Mo trying to completely destroy his value? Still if it's between him and Mikolas... we'll good knowing you lizard man, don't let the door hit your (bleep) on the way out.
At this point I would rather see Matz and McGreevy starting than Mikolas and Lib.
Matz over Liberatore is goofy AF.
You have always been for Lib as starter and this is his 4th year falling at it. He is better in the pen. You are goody AF thinking he is going to be a good starter. Liberatore had career 5.79 ERA coming into tonight and it went up after tonight. Matz has career 4.35ERA and in 2023 started 17 games with 4.04ERA. This is a lost season and they already talked about having Matz as a starter. If Matz is a starter and performs as he can they can flip him at the deadline.
This is the first year hes getting a legitimate chance to start
They have tried him in each of the last 4 years and he has sucked as a starter. He has had a lot of starts between majors and minors and not performed.
2022 29GS
2022 AAA 22GS 5.17ERA in AAA bad
2022 MLB 5.97 ERA w/7GS
2023 24GS
2023 AAA 13GS 4.18 ERA in AAA not good when facing lesser hitters in AAA.
2023 MLB 11GS 5.88 ERA
2024 MLB 6GS 6.35ERA
2025 MLB 2GS 5,84ERA
There is nothing to get excited about with Lib as a starter. He also comes across as weak mentally.
They jerk him between the rotation and bullpen that’s not a legitimate chance at starting you can’t even get into a groove
Re: Liberatore is not a SP
Posted: 07 Apr 2025 21:57 pm
by Strummer Jones
CardsBest wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 21:55 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 21:37 pm
CardsBest wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 21:35 pm
An Old Friend wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 20:46 pm
CardsBest wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 20:39 pm
RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 18:52 pm
Literally, Mo is an idiot. How many times does he have to have Liberatore in the starting rotation and fail before he accepts that he has more value in the BP? I mean WTF Gus?
Is Mo trying to completely destroy his value? Still if it's between him and Mikolas... we'll good knowing you lizard man, don't let the door hit your (bleep) on the way out.
At this point I would rather see Matz and McGreevy starting than Mikolas and Lib.
Matz over Liberatore is goofy AF.
You have always been for Lib as starter and this is his 4th year falling at it. He is better in the pen. You are goody AF thinking he is going to be a good starter. Liberatore had career 5.79 ERA coming into tonight and it went up after tonight. Matz has career 4.35ERA and in 2023 started 17 games with 4.04ERA. This is a lost season and they already talked about having Matz as a starter. If Matz is a starter and performs as he can they can flip him at the deadline.
This is the first year hes getting a legitimate chance to start
They have tried him in each of the last 4 years and he has sucked as a starter. He has had a lot of starts between majors and minors and not performed.
2022 29GS
2022 AAA 22GS 5.17ERA in AAA bad
2022 MLB 5.97 ERA w/7GS
2023 24GS
2023 AAA 13GS 4.18 ERA in AAA not good when facing lesser hitters in AAA.
2023 MLB 11GS 5.88 ERA
2024 MLB 6GS 6.35ERA
2025 MLB 2GS 5.84ERA
There is nothing to get excited about with Lib as a starter. He also comes across as weak mentally.
I see a difference there this year, too. Had an ugly couple innings, but got the boat back on track. Similar story in his last start. Had an inning back up on him, but finished strong. It ain't a mental thing. The next Big Unit he ain't, but he's also not Mike Maroth either.
Re: Liberatore is not a SP
Posted: 07 Apr 2025 22:01 pm
by CardsBest
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 21:57 pm
CardsBest wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 21:55 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 21:37 pm
CardsBest wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 21:35 pm
An Old Friend wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 20:46 pm
CardsBest wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 20:39 pm
RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 18:52 pm
Literally, Mo is an idiot. How many times does he have to have Liberatore in the starting rotation and fail before he accepts that he has more value in the BP? I mean WTF Gus?
Is Mo trying to completely destroy his value? Still if it's between him and Mikolas... we'll good knowing you lizard man, don't let the door hit your (bleep) on the way out.
At this point I would rather see Matz and McGreevy starting than Mikolas and Lib.
Matz over Liberatore is goofy AF.
You have always been for Lib as starter and this is his 4th year falling at it. He is better in the pen. You are goody AF thinking he is going to be a good starter. Liberatore had career 5.79 ERA coming into tonight and it went up after tonight. Matz has career 4.35ERA and in 2023 started 17 games with 4.04ERA. This is a lost season and they already talked about having Matz as a starter. If Matz is a starter and performs as he can they can flip him at the deadline.
This is the first year hes getting a legitimate chance to start
They have tried him in each of the last 4 years and he has sucked as a starter. He has had a lot of starts between majors and minors and not performed.
2022 29GS
2022 AAA 22GS 5.17ERA in AAA bad
2022 MLB 5.97 ERA w/7GS
2023 24GS
2023 AAA 13GS 4.18 ERA in AAA not good when facing lesser hitters in AAA.
2023 MLB 11GS 5.88 ERA
2024 MLB 6GS 6.35ERA
2025 MLB 2GS 5,84ERA
There is nothing to get excited about with Lib as a starter. He also comes across as weak mentally.
They jerk him between the rotation and bullpen that’s not a legitimate chance at starting you can’t even get into a groove
He is not a good starter. Minors or majors. You would think one time in those 4 years if he was a good starter he would have at least had a sub 4 ERA in minors or sub 5 in majors. He is not good as a starter. You can try using all excuses you want he is not good.
Re: Liberatore is not a SP
Posted: 07 Apr 2025 22:01 pm
by 11WSChamps
Sink or swim to give up on him now as a starter at this point in his career for this franchise where it is would in a word be stupid.
Re: Liberatore is not a SP
Posted: 07 Apr 2025 22:04 pm
by CardsBest
11WSChamps wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 22:01 pm
Sink or swim to give up on him now as a starter at this point in his career for this franchise where it is would in a word be stupid.
This franchise is stupid if they think Lib is as a starter.
Re: Liberatore is not a SP
Posted: 07 Apr 2025 22:06 pm
by 11WSChamps
CardsBest wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 22:04 pm
11WSChamps wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 22:01 pm
Sink or swim to give up on him now as a starter at this point in his career for this franchise where it is would in a word be stupid.
This franchise is stupid if they think Lib is as a starter.
They've made bigger mistakes than that.
Re: Liberatore is not a SP
Posted: 07 Apr 2025 22:11 pm
by Ozziesfan41
CardsBest wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 22:04 pm
11WSChamps wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 22:01 pm
Sink or swim to give up on him now as a starter at this point in his career for this franchise where it is would in a word be stupid.
This franchise is stupid if they think Lib is as a starter.
No they were stupid for jerking him around and not letting him develop as a starter
Re: Liberatore is not a SP
Posted: 07 Apr 2025 22:12 pm
by CardsBest
Pie Rats got 5 earned runs off him in 6IP. Pie Rats are not one of the top teams.
Pie Rats are 25th in AVG (.207), 25th in OPS (.609), and 27th in SLG (.315). They are not a good hitting team
Re: Liberatore is not a SP
Posted: 07 Apr 2025 22:18 pm
by An Old Friend
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 22:11 pm
CardsBest wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 22:04 pm
11WSChamps wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 22:01 pm
Sink or swim to give up on him now as a starter at this point in his career for this franchise where it is would in a word be stupid.
This franchise is stupid if they think Lib is as a starter.
No they were stupid for jerking him around and not letting him develop as a starter
Exactly
Re: Liberatore is not a SP
Posted: 08 Apr 2025 02:50 am
by RichieRichSTL
11WSChamps wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 22:06 pm
CardsBest wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 22:04 pm
11WSChamps wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 22:01 pm
Sink or swim to give up on him now as a starter at this point in his career for this franchise where it is would in a word be stupid.
This franchise is stupid if they think Lib is as a starter.
They've made bigger mistakes than that.
Exhibit A: Signing Mikolas to an extension twice.
Re: Liberatore is not a SP
Posted: 08 Apr 2025 08:57 am
by rockondlouie
RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025 18:52 pm
Literally, Mo is an idiot. How many times does he have to have Liberatore in the starting rotation and fail before he accepts that he has more value in the BP? I mean WTF Gus?
Is Mo trying to completely destroy his value? Still if it's between him and Mikolas... we'll good knowing you lizard man, don't let the door hit your (bleep) on the way out.
+1
Can't get RHH'ers out (.342 .342 .488 .829 ) and opposing Managers will continue to stack their lineups w/them.
As for Mikolas, DFA by May 1st.