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Shady wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 16:57 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 14:35 pm

Shady wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 13:55 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 12:13 pm Agree on Stan/Hornsby/Gibson/Albert
I understand the sentiment toward Albert who was a generational hitter.
But I have read many who have called Hornsby the greatest RH of All Time!
Over a five year period in his prime he AVERAGED:
.402
29 HR’s
120 RBI’s

That's phenomenal, indeed. Were Ted Williams' top five year averages in these categories about as close to Hornsby's as any other player in MLB history?

Not sure?
Doubtful.
Look it up as I did for Hornsby.

Sorry, you acted like some sort of a baseball encyclopedia nerd. I overestimated you. lol

I read the thread.
Thought about it and did my own research to back up my answer.
You should try it sometime....instead of asking continuous questions out of laziness.

Hornsby led the league in AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS/OPS+ 6 consecutive years and led the league in Total bases in 5 of the 6 years. Overall he led the league in OPS in 9 of 10 years at one point in his career. That’s phenomenal no matter what the level of competition was or was not.

The times that these 5 players led the league in AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS/OPS+ in their careers combined? 4

Bonds: 2
Aaron: 0
Pujols: 0
Mays: 0
Musial: 2

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 12:13 pm Agree on Stan/Hornsby/Gibson/Albert
I understand the sentiment toward Albert who was a generational hitter.
But I have read many who have called Hornsby the greatest RH of All Time!
Over a five year period in his prime he AVERAGED:
.402
29 HR’s
120 RBI’s

The era and competition were inferior.

Pujols should be ahead of RH. Probably #2.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 19:01 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 12:13 pm Agree on Stan/Hornsby/Gibson/Albert
I understand the sentiment toward Albert who was a generational hitter.
But I have read many who have called Hornsby the greatest RH of All Time!
Over a five year period in his prime he AVERAGED:
.402
29 HR’s
120 RBI’s

The era and competition were inferior.

Pujols should be ahead of RH. Probably #2.

Not sure where you come up with “inferior”??
You could argue the opposite that with all the additional teams that the competition is watered down?

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 19:07 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 19:01 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 12:13 pm Agree on Stan/Hornsby/Gibson/Albert
I understand the sentiment toward Albert who was a generational hitter.
But I have read many who have called Hornsby the greatest RH of All Time!
Over a five year period in his prime he AVERAGED:
.402
29 HR’s
120 RBI’s

The era and competition were inferior.

Pujols should be ahead of RH. Probably #2.

Not sure where you come up with “inferior”??
You could argue the opposite that with all the additional teams that the competition is watered down?

You are correct.
In the 1920's, the greatest and most condensed collection of elite athletes ever enjoyed by any American professional sport was in MLB.
Followed by MLB's rosters during the 1930's and latter half of the 1940's.

Melville wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 19:19 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 19:07 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 19:01 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 12:13 pm Agree on Stan/Hornsby/Gibson/Albert
I understand the sentiment toward Albert who was a generational hitter.
But I have read many who have called Hornsby the greatest RH of All Time!
Over a five year period in his prime he AVERAGED:
.402
29 HR’s
120 RBI’s

The era and competition were inferior.

Pujols should be ahead of RH. Probably #2.

Not sure where you come up with “inferior”??
You could argue the opposite that with all the additional teams that the competition is watered down?

You are correct.
In the 1920's, the greatest and most condensed collection of elite athletes ever enjoyed by any American professional sport was in MLB.
Followed by MLB's rosters during the 1930's and latter half of the 1940's.

I agree and to call them “inferior” is completely baseless!

1_12_1968 wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 11:55 am

Shady wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 11:29 am

OldRed wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 11:26 am I would flop him and Brock. That would make Albert #4 and Brock #5.

Was Hornsby really an even better RH hitter than Pujols? Wonder if Hornsby faced the pitching velocity that Pujols did. Hornsby did have some eye-popping batting averages.

I hate post like this. Hornsby faced the best players of his era and did things nobody did before or after.

Agreed.

Hornsby can't control what era he played in or against whom.

He dominated his era that's all he could do.

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 19:07 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 19:01 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 12:13 pm Agree on Stan/Hornsby/Gibson/Albert
I understand the sentiment toward Albert who was a generational hitter.
But I have read many who have called Hornsby the greatest RH of All Time!
Over a five year period in his prime he AVERAGED:
.402
29 HR’s
120 RBI’s

The era and competition were inferior.

Pujols should be ahead of RH. Probably #2.

Not sure where you come up with “inferior”??
You could argue the opposite that with all the additional teams that the competition is watered down?

Let's put aside "inferior" for a sec.

People say, "Hornsby hit '402 over a 5 year span."

While true, the league leaders back then were all around .375-.405. BA.

Shady wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 11:22 am Who are you surprised that's not on this list? Ted Simmons maybe? https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/ra ... b8b7&ei=11

Pujols should be #2. I suppose it could be a toss up between Pujols and Hornsby but I saw Pujols so my bias is choosing him.

makesnosense wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 17:19 pm

Monsieur De Treville wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 11:59 am

Shady wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 11:29 am

OldRed wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 11:26 am I would flop him and Brock. That would make Albert #4 and Brock #5.

Was Hornsby really an even better RH hitter than Pujols? Wonder if Hornsby faced the pitching velocity that Pujols did. Hornsby did have some eye-popping batting averages.

Judge them against their competition.

Hornsby the only player to hit 40 HR while batting .400 in a single season. Hornsby won two Triple Crowns. For 5 straight seasons Hornsby's cumulative BA was .400.

Hornsby remains the greatest RH hitter in MLB history.

wow i never knew Mays and Aaron batted left handed

They were RH.

And they didn't win two triple crowns. They didn't hit .400 with 40 HR in the same season. Neither came close to a 175 OPS+. Neither won 7 batting titles.

They were great players and great hitters. But they never dominated their league like Hornsby did.

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 18:47 pm Hornsby led the league in AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS/OPS+ 6 consecutive years and led the league in Total bases in 5 of the 6 years. Overall he led the league in OPS in 9 of 10 years at one point in his career. That’s phenomenal no matter what the level of competition was or was not.

The times that these 5 players led the league in AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS/OPS+ in their careers combined? 4

Bonds: 2
Aaron: 0
Pujols: 0
Mays: 0
Musial: 2

Good stuff. Sure I’m missing someone, but the only ones I can think of even close are Williams & Cobb, who did it 4x.

1_12_1968 wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 11:55 am

Shady wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 11:29 am

OldRed wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 11:26 am I would flop him and Brock. That would make Albert #4 and Brock #5.

Was Hornsby really an even better RH hitter than Pujols? Wonder if Hornsby faced the pitching velocity that Pujols did. Hornsby did have some eye-popping batting averages.

I hate post like this. Hornsby faced the best players of his era and did things nobody did before or after.

Babe Ruth was in the same era. Babe Ruth hit over .372 six seasons and over .341 ten seasons. His career ops+ was 206. Rogers career batting average was .358 and his ops+ was 175. Hornsby was certainly a great hitter but not a lot better than other hitters of his era or all time hitters. jmho

Catfish4U wrote: ↑30 Mar 2025 11:09 am

1_12_1968 wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 11:55 am

Shady wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 11:29 am

OldRed wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 11:26 am I would flop him and Brock. That would make Albert #4 and Brock #5.

Was Hornsby really an even better RH hitter than Pujols? Wonder if Hornsby faced the pitching velocity that Pujols did. Hornsby did have some eye-popping batting averages.

I hate post like this. Hornsby faced the best players of his era and did things nobody did before or after.

Babe Ruth was in the same era. Babe Ruth hit over .372 six seasons and over .341 ten seasons. His career ops+ was 206. Rogers career batting average was .358 and his ops+ was 175. Hornsby was certainly a great hitter but not a lot better than other hitters of his era or all time hitters. jmho

Simply wrong. Not one NL player from Hornsby's era even comes close to a career 175 OPS+. It's the 5th best in MLB history behind Ruth, Williams, Bonds, and Gehrig. And Hornsby is the only RH hitter of these top 5.

Ponder this...from 1917 until 1929, Hornsby led the NL in WAR in 11 of 13 seasons! He was head & shoulders above every NL hitter. No one was really even close!

Move Pujols ahead of Brock, and put Dean on the list. That knocks Flood off, but he's on there partially for his off-the-field influences, anyway.

Comparing Hornsby and Pujols Cardinal career (I find this to be an interesting comparison)


Stat | Rogers Hornsby | Albert Pujols
-----------------------|---------------------------|---------------------------
Games Played | 1,580 | 1,814
Batting Average | .359 | .328
On-Base Percentage | .427 | .420
Slugging Percentage | .568 | .617
OPS | .995 | 1.037
OPS+ | 177 | 169
Home Runs | 193 | 469
RBIs | 1,072 | 1,397
Hits | 2,110 | 2,156
Runs | 1,089 | 1,333
Walks | 660 | 1,003
MVP Awards | 2 | 3
Batting Titles | 7 | 1
.400+ Seasons | 3 | 0
World Series Titles | 1 (1926) | 2 (2006, 2011)

Can’t go wrong either way but I think Pujols edges out Hornsby. Pujols had more power and a higher ops(although Hornsby had a slightly higher ops+). Pujols leads in every offensive category except BA while playing gold glove defense.

Shady wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 13:55 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Mar 2025 12:13 pm Agree on Stan/Hornsby/Gibson/Albert
I understand the sentiment toward Albert who was a generational hitter.
But I have read many who have called Hornsby the greatest RH of All Time!
Over a five year period in his prime he AVERAGED:
.402
29 HR’s
120 RBI’s

That's phenomenal, indeed. Were Ted Williams' top five year averages in these categories about as close to Hornsby's as any other player in MLB history?

In average that would be Ty Cobb 1909 -1913 but he had no power to match Hornsby:
.396 .454 .563 1.017

But for BA and Power that would be Babe Ruth 1920 -1924:
47 HR
131 RBI
.370 .511 .777 1.288