Bloom will listen to interest for Donovan and Noot

[Cranny]

I'm aware of that. The best deal he could get was Verdugo and a couple mediocre to poor prospects for Betts? Why would we think get will get something for Donovan based upon that failure?

Not close to the same thing. Donovan isn't expensive yet nor is management publicly pushing to trade him. His 2026 salary is $5.76 mil and there are still two years of arb left.

Donovan has significant value based on cost, performance and control. All 3 factors matter in the value of a player in trade. Betts even in arb was expensive and BOS made it known he was gone to get under the cap. That seriously reduces the negotiating position for a team.

IMO trading Donovan now is a smart move. Reasons are:

STL will not be in contention in 2026. Probably not 2027 which I believe will be a lock out year anyway.

This might be peak Donovan. Expecting him to improve dramatically on this year starting at age 29 is silly. Most players have their peaks at 27-30. He broke out and 2-3 WAR is probably it. He will never be more valuable.

IMO he would return two prospects. One in the top 100 of baseball rankings or top 10 in STL farm. Another who would rank somewhere in the top 30 of the STL farm system.

Agreed the result for BOS was poor. Verdugo fizzled but was highly regarded, Note also they dumped Price on the Dodgers too. No one can guarantee trades or prospects, As we well know sometimes they just don't pop. But the key for STL right now is to amass as many of them as possible and hope some do. And Donovan won't make a darn bit of difference in the next competitive STL team so why not cash him in on a guy who might?

Friedman robbed Bloom. Any way you look it that's a fact. Dodgers may pass the Cardinals for most world series champions due to that trade.

Let's say that your position is 100% correct.
How is it relevant to any other deal that Bloom makes?
The same if he took Friedman to the cleaners. What would it mean good or bad?

If a GM hit 100% would some not want to deal any prospects.

Friedman did well. Most in baseball knew Betts was and is special. Hardly anything unique. The unique was being able to add $48 million to the payroll knowing half was to be paid for a unproductive player and not knowing with absolute certainty that they would get Mookie signed beyond 2020. LAD could also of just waited for Betts to hit FA.

Seager, Smith, Turner, Bellinger, Kershaw, May, Urias
Buehler, Jansen, and Covid may have all had a little to do with the 2020 WS too. Since 2020 the LAD have increased payroll from $204 million dollars on their 40 man to $415 million potentially that's some help for Mr Betts.

Bloom got fired in Boston. Perhaps he was unlucky but he clearly failed to correctly assess the prospects he got for Betts.

Let me break it down for you bud...

Houston got a NICE RETURN when they traded Tucker to Chicago. Now, if the Cubs ALSO had to take on $46mil /3years of a struggling player's contract, do you think the RETURN would be as NICE for Houston? NO.

So you may say, "well why didn't Boston just trade Betts to get a better return??"

Because Henry's desire wasn't a NICE RETURN. It was CUTTING PAYROLL.

Bloom failed to accurately assess those two prospects. Can't change reality.

Sometimes I forget I'm debating a guy who thinks Matheny was the best Cards' manager in history. And someone who also thinks if Donovan is traded, it's the worst thing in the world.

Thanks for the reminder.

I liked Matheny, I don't want to trade Donovan, but I agree with you totally on Betts. He was told to dump payroll and then was made a scapegoat.

[ecleme22]

I'm aware of that. The best deal he could get was Verdugo and a couple mediocre to poor prospects for Betts? Why would we think get will get something for Donovan based upon that failure?

Not close to the same thing. Donovan isn't expensive yet nor is management publicly pushing to trade him. His 2026 salary is $5.76 mil and there are still two years of arb left.

Donovan has significant value based on cost, performance and control. All 3 factors matter in the value of a player in trade. Betts even in arb was expensive and BOS made it known he was gone to get under the cap. That seriously reduces the negotiating position for a team.

IMO trading Donovan now is a smart move. Reasons are:

STL will not be in contention in 2026. Probably not 2027 which I believe will be a lock out year anyway.

This might be peak Donovan. Expecting him to improve dramatically on this year starting at age 29 is silly. Most players have their peaks at 27-30. He broke out and 2-3 WAR is probably it. He will never be more valuable.

IMO he would return two prospects. One in the top 100 of baseball rankings or top 10 in STL farm. Another who would rank somewhere in the top 30 of the STL farm system.

Agreed the result for BOS was poor. Verdugo fizzled but was highly regarded, Note also they dumped Price on the Dodgers too. No one can guarantee trades or prospects, As we well know sometimes they just don't pop. But the key for STL right now is to amass as many of them as possible and hope some do. And Donovan won't make a darn bit of difference in the next competitive STL team so why not cash him in on a guy who might?

Friedman robbed Bloom. Any way you look it that's a fact. Dodgers may pass the Cardinals for most world series champions due to that trade.

Let's say that your position is 100% correct.
How is it relevant to any other deal that Bloom makes?
The same if he took Friedman to the cleaners. What would it mean good or bad?

If a GM hit 100% would some not want to deal any prospects.

Friedman did well. Most in baseball knew Betts was and is special. Hardly anything unique. The unique was being able to add $48 million to the payroll knowing half was to be paid for a unproductive player and not knowing with absolute certainty that they would get Mookie signed beyond 2020. LAD could also of just waited for Betts to hit FA.

Seager, Smith, Turner, Bellinger, Kershaw, May, Urias
Buehler, Jansen, and Covid may have all had a little to do with the 2020 WS too. Since 2020 the LAD have increased payroll from $204 million dollars on their 40 man to $415 million potentially that's some help for Mr Betts.

Bloom got fired in Boston. Perhaps he was unlucky but he clearly failed to correctly assess the prospects he got for Betts.

Let me break it down for you bud...

Houston got a NICE RETURN when they traded Tucker to Chicago. Now, if the Cubs ALSO had to take on $46mil /3years of a struggling player's contract, do you think the RETURN would be as NICE for Houston? NO.

So you may say, "well why didn't Boston just trade Betts to get a better return??"

Because Henry's desire wasn't a NICE RETURN. It was CUTTING PAYROLL.

Bloom failed to accurately assess those two prospects. Can't change reality.

Sometimes I forget I'm debating a guy who thinks Matheny was the best Cards' manager in history. And someone who also thinks if Donovan is traded, it's the worst thing in the world.

Thanks for the reminder.

I liked Matheny, I don't want to trade Donovan, but I agree with you totally on Betts. He was told to dump payroll and then was made a scapegoat.

[Applause!]

For someone who disagrees with me on two points, but still writes a post agreeing on this! Thank you.

Classy post.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

That is such stupid logic to equate the Betts/Price/Henry situation with the Donovan situation.

Bloom is in no hurry to trade BD nor has any sort of mandate from Dewitt.

I can easily see BD on the 2026 OD roster. But given the cards are in a rebuild, it would be dumb for CB to not listen to offers on BD.

Jesus Christ, learn baseball. Also learn ‘context.’ You can’t be that dumb.

Give up. He is obviously unwilling to admit the massive difference between the two trades or how hamstrung Bloom was when he traded Betts.

[ecleme22]

That is such stupid logic to equate the Betts/Price/Henry situation with the Donovan situation.

Bloom is in no hurry to trade BD nor has any sort of mandate from Dewitt.

I can easily see BD on the 2026 OD roster. But given the cards are in a rebuild, it would be dumb for CB to not listen to offers on BD.

Jesus Christ, learn baseball. Also learn ‘context.’ You can’t be that dumb.

Give up. He is obviously unwilling to admit the massive difference between the two trades or how hamstrung Bloom was when he traded Betts.

Word. I don’t know if he’s unwilling to admit, or he really doesn’t know.

[renostl]

I'm aware of that. The best deal he could get was Verdugo and a couple mediocre to poor prospects for Betts? Why would we think get will get something for Donovan based upon that failure?

Not close to the same thing. Donovan isn't expensive yet nor is management publicly pushing to trade him. His 2026 salary is $5.76 mil and there are still two years of arb left.

Donovan has significant value based on cost, performance and control. All 3 factors matter in the value of a player in trade. Betts even in arb was expensive and BOS made it known he was gone to get under the cap. That seriously reduces the negotiating position for a team.

IMO trading Donovan now is a smart move. Reasons are:

STL will not be in contention in 2026. Probably not 2027 which I believe will be a lock out year anyway.

This might be peak Donovan. Expecting him to improve dramatically on this year starting at age 29 is silly. Most players have their peaks at 27-30. He broke out and 2-3 WAR is probably it. He will never be more valuable.

IMO he would return two prospects. One in the top 100 of baseball rankings or top 10 in STL farm. Another who would rank somewhere in the top 30 of the STL farm system.

Agreed the result for BOS was poor. Verdugo fizzled but was highly regarded, Note also they dumped Price on the Dodgers too. No one can guarantee trades or prospects, As we well know sometimes they just don't pop. But the key for STL right now is to amass as many of them as possible and hope some do. And Donovan won't make a darn bit of difference in the next competitive STL team so why not cash him in on a guy who might?

Friedman robbed Bloom. Any way you look it that's a fact. Dodgers may pass the Cardinals for most world series champions due to that trade.

Let's say that your position is 100% correct.
How is it relevant to any other deal that Bloom makes?
The same if he took Friedman to the cleaners. What would it mean good or bad?

If a GM hit 100% would some not want to deal any prospects.

Friedman did well. Most in baseball knew Betts was and is special. Hardly anything unique. The unique was being able to add $48 million to the payroll knowing half was to be paid for a unproductive player and not knowing with absolute certainty that they would get Mookie signed beyond 2020. LAD could also of just waited for Betts to hit FA.

Seager, Smith, Turner, Bellinger, Kershaw, May, Urias
Buehler, Jansen, and Covid may have all had a little to do with the 2020 WS too. Since 2020 the LAD have increased payroll from $204 million dollars on their 40 man to $415 million potentially that's some help for Mr Betts.

Bloom got fired in Boston. Perhaps he was unlucky but he clearly failed to correctly assess the prospects he got for Betts.

This doesn't address either of the prior points that you were making. I let you have the position that Friedman won that trade.

How does that have any relevance to the next trade? If we are accessing honestly, shouldn't we look at more than a single event?

That the Dodgers will surpass the Cards with NL world championships.
Of course they will. Putting it on the Mookie Betts trade may be a bit simplistic.

The Cards won when they enjoyed a huge advantage over other teams, second only to NYY. Those teams
had the draw from players all over the country trying out for their teams. All other teams got what St. Louis
and NYY didn't take. They both also had the best farm systems.

Now LAD is taking full advantage of this current situation of money and will continue to. Betts is a symptom
of that and the LAD advantage of winning those WS. He is not the cause of winning them $400 million buys
Mookie a pretty good opportunity. It's also how LAD got Mookie. Bloom had basically 1 team to make a deal with
when he had to dump Price or pay Price to go away. They weren't going to give Mookie to NYY. The Mets didn't
have Cohen yet.

The prospects he acquired in 2020 for the 2018 AL MVP were Jeters Downs and Connor Wong. Downs played 6 games in MLB and is now in Japan. Wong is underwhelming.

Now Bloom is pretty much forced to trade Donovan since he had a reporter leak the story for him. Isn't that the excuse for not getting good return for Betts - he was forced to make the trade? The relevance is his ability to assess players he is acquiring in trades. The established player he got for Betts was Verdugo who is a career .270 outfielder with little speed or power.

My guess is he repeats that for Donovan. One established player - probably a pitcher - and a couple prospects. We'll see how that works out but leaking it to make it public doesn't seem like a good idea. Probably puts him in a position where he has to trade Donovan and other teams know that.

We have to return to that February and how those prospects were seen at the time. Prospects fail.
even #1 draft picks.

Agreement that when you are considered a guru at something it can look bad when you miss. Perhaps
that is an unrealistic position when the task is predicting future human production, your call on that Scotch,
Should he be 100%, 80%, 70% in predicting future human production?

As to BD.
IMO Betts had a very limited market when Price was attached. An error maybe but I'll give the guy
there as having knowledge of knowing the market.
The title of this thread says "Bloom will listen" nothing more. Betts a far superior player yet a market of a couple teams.
Betts production still created that market. BD's production will create his market if dealt. There won't
need to be any discounts, GM's either like BD or they don't. IF they do they pay the winning bid. IMO, BD
has quite a few teams that would be happy with strong supplemental player production with control and low
cost. We will see. But we need to be honest with the projected return. By himself he doesn't get a now TOR or a now
MOTOB. Prospects or less of a now MLB roster player unless they add to BD.

Is it possible Andrew Friedman was hyping them so he could rip off someone in a trade?

He probably didn't insult a colleague in that manner.

Friedman was actually doing Bloom a small favor, IMO, he fully understood the position
that Bloon was in, LAD was bidding against themselves.

But lets say that what you opinion here is correct. A guy has a barn full of mules and tells you that the best 3
are right here, there's no need to look inside. Do you take the 3 or look inside?

[Bomber1]

I'm aware of that. The best deal he could get was Verdugo and a couple mediocre to poor prospects for Betts? Why would we think get will get something for Donovan based upon that failure?

Not close to the same thing. Donovan isn't expensive yet nor is management publicly pushing to trade him. His 2026 salary is $5.76 mil and there are still two years of arb left.

Donovan has significant value based on cost, performance and control. All 3 factors matter in the value of a player in trade. Betts even in arb was expensive and BOS made it known he was gone to get under the cap. That seriously reduces the negotiating position for a team.

IMO trading Donovan now is a smart move. Reasons are:

STL will not be in contention in 2026. Probably not 2027 which I believe will be a lock out year anyway.

This might be peak Donovan. Expecting him to improve dramatically on this year starting at age 29 is silly. Most players have their peaks at 27-30. He broke out and 2-3 WAR is probably it. He will never be more valuable.

IMO he would return two prospects. One in the top 100 of baseball rankings or top 10 in STL farm. Another who would rank somewhere in the top 30 of the STL farm system.

Agreed the result for BOS was poor. Verdugo fizzled but was highly regarded, Note also they dumped Price on the Dodgers too. No one can guarantee trades or prospects, As we well know sometimes they just don't pop. But the key for STL right now is to amass as many of them as possible and hope some do. And Donovan won't make a darn bit of difference in the next competitive STL team so why not cash him in on a guy who might?

Friedman robbed Bloom. Any way you look it that's a fact. Dodgers may pass the Cardinals for most world series champions due to that trade.

Let's say that your position is 100% correct.
How is it relevant to any other deal that Bloom makes?
The same if he took Friedman to the cleaners. What would it mean good or bad?

If a GM hit 100% would some not want to deal any prospects.

Friedman did well. Most in baseball knew Betts was and is special. Hardly anything unique. The unique was being able to add $48 million to the payroll knowing half was to be paid for a unproductive player and not knowing with absolute certainty that they would get Mookie signed beyond 2020. LAD could also of just waited for Betts to hit FA.

Seager, Smith, Turner, Bellinger, Kershaw, May, Urias
Buehler, Jansen, and Covid may have all had a little to do with the 2020 WS too. Since 2020 the LAD have increased payroll from $204 million dollars on their 40 man to $415 million potentially that's some help for Mr Betts.

Bloom got fired in Boston. Perhaps he was unlucky but he clearly failed to correctly assess the prospects he got for Betts.

Let me break it down for you bud...

Houston got a NICE RETURN when they traded Tucker to Chicago. Now, if the Cubs ALSO had to take on $46mil /3years of a struggling player's contract, do you think the RETURN would be as NICE for Houston? NO.

So you may say, "well why didn't Boston just trade Betts to get a better return??"

Because Henry's desire wasn't a NICE RETURN. It was CUTTING PAYROLL.

Bloom failed to accurately assess those two prospects. Can't change reality.

Sometimes I forget I'm debating a guy who thinks Matheny was the best Cards' manager in history. And someone who also thinks if Donovan is traded, it's the worst thing in the world.

Thanks for the reminder.

I liked Matheny, I don't want to trade Donovan, but I agree with you totally on Betts. He was told to dump payroll and then was made a scapegoat.

I agree with you Cranny.

I don’t necessarily want to trade Donovan either, but he is probably the team’s best trade chip right now so I think he should be traded, mostly because I think the team is 3 years away at least.

Certainly agree regarding Bloom and Betts.

I personally believe that Bloom will turn this franchise around if he’s given complete control along with a top-half payroll.

[ScotchMIrish]

I'm aware of that. The best deal he could get was Verdugo and a couple mediocre to poor prospects for Betts? Why would we think get will get something for Donovan based upon that failure?

Not close to the same thing. Donovan isn't expensive yet nor is management publicly pushing to trade him. His 2026 salary is $5.76 mil and there are still two years of arb left.

Donovan has significant value based on cost, performance and control. All 3 factors matter in the value of a player in trade. Betts even in arb was expensive and BOS made it known he was gone to get under the cap. That seriously reduces the negotiating position for a team.

IMO trading Donovan now is a smart move. Reasons are:

STL will not be in contention in 2026. Probably not 2027 which I believe will be a lock out year anyway.

This might be peak Donovan. Expecting him to improve dramatically on this year starting at age 29 is silly. Most players have their peaks at 27-30. He broke out and 2-3 WAR is probably it. He will never be more valuable.

IMO he would return two prospects. One in the top 100 of baseball rankings or top 10 in STL farm. Another who would rank somewhere in the top 30 of the STL farm system.

Agreed the result for BOS was poor. Verdugo fizzled but was highly regarded, Note also they dumped Price on the Dodgers too. No one can guarantee trades or prospects, As we well know sometimes they just don't pop. But the key for STL right now is to amass as many of them as possible and hope some do. And Donovan won't make a darn bit of difference in the next competitive STL team so why not cash him in on a guy who might?

Friedman robbed Bloom. Any way you look it that's a fact. Dodgers may pass the Cardinals for most world series champions due to that trade.

Let's say that your position is 100% correct.
How is it relevant to any other deal that Bloom makes?
The same if he took Friedman to the cleaners. What would it mean good or bad?

If a GM hit 100% would some not want to deal any prospects.

Friedman did well. Most in baseball knew Betts was and is special. Hardly anything unique. The unique was being able to add $48 million to the payroll knowing half was to be paid for a unproductive player and not knowing with absolute certainty that they would get Mookie signed beyond 2020. LAD could also of just waited for Betts to hit FA.

Seager, Smith, Turner, Bellinger, Kershaw, May, Urias
Buehler, Jansen, and Covid may have all had a little to do with the 2020 WS too. Since 2020 the LAD have increased payroll from $204 million dollars on their 40 man to $415 million potentially that's some help for Mr Betts.

Bloom got fired in Boston. Perhaps he was unlucky but he clearly failed to correctly assess the prospects he got for Betts.

Let me break it down for you bud...

Houston got a NICE RETURN when they traded Tucker to Chicago. Now, if the Cubs ALSO had to take on $46mil /3years of a struggling player's contract, do you think the RETURN would be as NICE for Houston? NO.

So you may say, "well why didn't Boston just trade Betts to get a better return??"

Because Henry's desire wasn't a NICE RETURN. It was CUTTING PAYROLL.

Bloom failed to accurately assess those two prospects. Can't change reality.

Sometimes I forget I'm debating a guy who thinks Matheny was the best Cards' manager in history. And someone who also thinks if Donovan is traded, it's the worst thing in the world.

Thanks for the reminder.

I liked Matheny, I don't want to trade Donovan, but I agree with you totally on Betts. He was told to dump payroll and then was made a scapegoat.

I agree with you Cranny.

I don’t necessarily want to trade Donovan either, but he is probably the team’s best trade chip right now so I think he should be traded, mostly because I think the team is 3 years away at least.

Certainly agree regarding Bloom and Betts.

I personally believe that Bloom will turn this franchise around if he’s given complete control along with a top-half payroll.

It seems to me Bloom just put himself in a similar situation by giving a reporter the Donovan story to leak. Now he has to trade Donovan and other teams know it.

[ecleme22]

I'm aware of that. The best deal he could get was Verdugo and a couple mediocre to poor prospects for Betts? Why would we think get will get something for Donovan based upon that failure?

Not close to the same thing. Donovan isn't expensive yet nor is management publicly pushing to trade him. His 2026 salary is $5.76 mil and there are still two years of arb left.

Donovan has significant value based on cost, performance and control. All 3 factors matter in the value of a player in trade. Betts even in arb was expensive and BOS made it known he was gone to get under the cap. That seriously reduces the negotiating position for a team.

IMO trading Donovan now is a smart move. Reasons are:

STL will not be in contention in 2026. Probably not 2027 which I believe will be a lock out year anyway.

This might be peak Donovan. Expecting him to improve dramatically on this year starting at age 29 is silly. Most players have their peaks at 27-30. He broke out and 2-3 WAR is probably it. He will never be more valuable.

IMO he would return two prospects. One in the top 100 of baseball rankings or top 10 in STL farm. Another who would rank somewhere in the top 30 of the STL farm system.

Agreed the result for BOS was poor. Verdugo fizzled but was highly regarded, Note also they dumped Price on the Dodgers too. No one can guarantee trades or prospects, As we well know sometimes they just don't pop. But the key for STL right now is to amass as many of them as possible and hope some do. And Donovan won't make a darn bit of difference in the next competitive STL team so why not cash him in on a guy who might?

Friedman robbed Bloom. Any way you look it that's a fact. Dodgers may pass the Cardinals for most world series champions due to that trade.

Let's say that your position is 100% correct.
How is it relevant to any other deal that Bloom makes?
The same if he took Friedman to the cleaners. What would it mean good or bad?

If a GM hit 100% would some not want to deal any prospects.

Friedman did well. Most in baseball knew Betts was and is special. Hardly anything unique. The unique was being able to add $48 million to the payroll knowing half was to be paid for a unproductive player and not knowing with absolute certainty that they would get Mookie signed beyond 2020. LAD could also of just waited for Betts to hit FA.

Seager, Smith, Turner, Bellinger, Kershaw, May, Urias
Buehler, Jansen, and Covid may have all had a little to do with the 2020 WS too. Since 2020 the LAD have increased payroll from $204 million dollars on their 40 man to $415 million potentially that's some help for Mr Betts.

Bloom got fired in Boston. Perhaps he was unlucky but he clearly failed to correctly assess the prospects he got for Betts.

Let me break it down for you bud...

Houston got a NICE RETURN when they traded Tucker to Chicago. Now, if the Cubs ALSO had to take on $46mil /3years of a struggling player's contract, do you think the RETURN would be as NICE for Houston? NO.

So you may say, "well why didn't Boston just trade Betts to get a better return??"

Because Henry's desire wasn't a NICE RETURN. It was CUTTING PAYROLL.

Bloom failed to accurately assess those two prospects. Can't change reality.

Sometimes I forget I'm debating a guy who thinks Matheny was the best Cards' manager in history. And someone who also thinks if Donovan is traded, it's the worst thing in the world.

Thanks for the reminder.

I liked Matheny, I don't want to trade Donovan, but I agree with you totally on Betts. He was told to dump payroll and then was made a scapegoat.

I agree with you Cranny.

I don’t necessarily want to trade Donovan either, but he is probably the team’s best trade chip right now so I think he should be traded, mostly because I think the team is 3 years away at least.

Certainly agree regarding Bloom and Betts.

I personally believe that Bloom will turn this franchise around if he’s given complete control along with a top-half payroll.

It seems to me Bloom just put himself in a similar situation by giving a reporter the Donovan story to leak. Now he has to trade Donovan and other teams know it.

You're trolling.