Page 18 of 20
Re: Bloom will listen to interest for Donovan and Noot
Posted: 15 Oct 2025 13:18 pm
by ScotchMIrish
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 12:57 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 11:51 am
I'm aware of that. The best deal he could get was Verdugo and a couple mediocre to poor prospects for Betts? Why would we think get will get something for Donovan based upon that failure?
Not close to the same thing. Donovan isn't expensive yet nor is management publicly pushing to trade him. His 2026 salary is $5.76 mil and there are still two years of arb left.
Donovan has significant value based on cost, performance and control. All 3 factors matter in the value of a player in trade. Betts even in arb was expensive and BOS made it known he was gone to get under the cap. That seriously reduces the negotiating position for a team.
IMO trading Donovan now is a smart move. Reasons are:
STL will not be in contention in 2026. Probably not 2027 which I believe will be a lock out year anyway.
This might be peak Donovan. Expecting him to improve dramatically on this year starting at age 29 is silly. Most players have their peaks at 27-30. He broke out and 2-3 WAR is probably it. He will never be more valuable.
IMO he would return two prospects. One in the top 100 of baseball rankings or top 10 in STL farm. Another who would rank somewhere in the top 30 of the STL farm system.
Agreed the result for BOS was poor. Verdugo fizzled but was highly regarded, Note also they dumped Price on the Dodgers too. No one can guarantee trades or prospects, As we well know sometimes they just don't pop. But the key for STL right now is to amass as many of them as possible and hope some do. And Donovan won't make a darn bit of difference in the next competitive STL team so why not cash him in on a guy who might?
Friedman robbed Bloom. Any way you look it that's a fact. Dodgers may pass the Cardinals for most world series champions due to that trade.
Re: Bloom will listen to interest for Donovan and Noot
Posted: 15 Oct 2025 13:27 pm
by ecleme22
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 13:18 pm
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 12:57 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 11:51 am
I'm aware of that. The best deal he could get was Verdugo and a couple mediocre to poor prospects for Betts? Why would we think get will get something for Donovan based upon that failure?
Not close to the same thing. Donovan isn't expensive yet nor is management publicly pushing to trade him. His 2026 salary is $5.76 mil and there are still two years of arb left.
Donovan has significant value based on cost, performance and control. All 3 factors matter in the value of a player in trade. Betts even in arb was expensive and BOS made it known he was gone to get under the cap. That seriously reduces the negotiating position for a team.
IMO trading Donovan now is a smart move. Reasons are:
STL will not be in contention in 2026. Probably not 2027 which I believe will be a lock out year anyway.
This might be peak Donovan. Expecting him to improve dramatically on this year starting at age 29 is silly. Most players have their peaks at 27-30. He broke out and 2-3 WAR is probably it. He will never be more valuable.
IMO he would return two prospects. One in the top 100 of baseball rankings or top 10 in STL farm. Another who would rank somewhere in the top 30 of the STL farm system.
Agreed the result for BOS was poor. Verdugo fizzled but was highly regarded, Note also they dumped Price on the Dodgers too. No one can guarantee trades or prospects, As we well know sometimes they just don't pop. But the key for STL right now is to amass as many of them as possible and hope some do. And Donovan won't make a darn bit of difference in the next competitive STL team so why not cash him in on a guy who might?
Friedman robbed Bloom. Any way you look it that's a fact. Dodgers may pass the Cardinals for most world series champions due to that trade.
Yes, the consensus is that Chaim Bloom failed to get a sufficient return for Mookie Betts, although he was not the one who initially decided to trade him. Bloom was tasked with trading Betts to reduce payroll, a decision driven by ownership, and while the return package was considered poor, some argue the trade's failure was inevitable given the circumstances. The return was not strong enough to make up for the loss of an MVP-caliber player, making it one of the most criticized trades in recent years.
Re: Bloom will listen to interest for Donovan and Noot
Posted: 15 Oct 2025 13:28 pm
by Ozziesfan41
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 13:18 pm
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 12:57 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 11:51 am
I'm aware of that. The best deal he could get was Verdugo and a couple mediocre to poor prospects for Betts? Why would we think get will get something for Donovan based upon that failure?
Not close to the same thing. Donovan isn't expensive yet nor is management publicly pushing to trade him. His 2026 salary is $5.76 mil and there are still two years of arb left.
Donovan has significant value based on cost, performance and control. All 3 factors matter in the value of a player in trade. Betts even in arb was expensive and BOS made it known he was gone to get under the cap. That seriously reduces the negotiating position for a team.
IMO trading Donovan now is a smart move. Reasons are:
STL will not be in contention in 2026. Probably not 2027 which I believe will be a lock out year anyway.
This might be peak Donovan. Expecting him to improve dramatically on this year starting at age 29 is silly. Most players have their peaks at 27-30. He broke out and 2-3 WAR is probably it. He will never be more valuable.
IMO he would return two prospects. One in the top 100 of baseball rankings or top 10 in STL farm. Another who would rank somewhere in the top 30 of the STL farm system.
Agreed the result for BOS was poor. Verdugo fizzled but was highly regarded, Note also they dumped Price on the Dodgers too. No one can guarantee trades or prospects, As we well know sometimes they just don't pop. But the key for STL right now is to amass as many of them as possible and hope some do. And Donovan won't make a darn bit of difference in the next competitive STL team so why not cash him in on a guy who might?
Friedman robbed Bloom. Any way you look it that's a fact. Dodgers may pass the Cardinals for most world series champions due to that trade.
What did you think they would get back for betts when he har to package price in with him to dump him as ordered? If he could have just traded betts he could have got a haul for him but he had to dump price
Re: Bloom will listen to interest for Donovan and Noot
Posted: 15 Oct 2025 14:32 pm
by AZ_Cardsfan
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 13:18 pm
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 12:57 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 11:51 am
I'm aware of that. The best deal he could get was Verdugo and a couple mediocre to poor prospects for Betts? Why would we think get will get something for Donovan based upon that failure?
Not close to the same thing. Donovan isn't expensive yet nor is management publicly pushing to trade him. His 2026 salary is $5.76 mil and there are still two years of arb left.
Donovan has significant value based on cost, performance and control. All 3 factors matter in the value of a player in trade. Betts even in arb was expensive and BOS made it known he was gone to get under the cap. That seriously reduces the negotiating position for a team.
IMO trading Donovan now is a smart move. Reasons are:
STL will not be in contention in 2026. Probably not 2027 which I believe will be a lock out year anyway.
This might be peak Donovan. Expecting him to improve dramatically on this year starting at age 29 is silly. Most players have their peaks at 27-30. He broke out and 2-3 WAR is probably it. He will never be more valuable.
IMO he would return two prospects. One in the top 100 of baseball rankings or top 10 in STL farm. Another who would rank somewhere in the top 30 of the STL farm system.
Agreed the result for BOS was poor. Verdugo fizzled but was highly regarded, Note also they dumped Price on the Dodgers too. No one can guarantee trades or prospects, As we well know sometimes they just don't pop. But the key for STL right now is to amass as many of them as possible and hope some do. And Donovan won't make a darn bit of difference in the next competitive STL team so why not cash him in on a guy who might?
Friedman robbed Bloom. Any way you look it that's a fact. Dodgers may pass the Cardinals for most world series champions due to that trade.
I will try to spell it out again. Bloom was hamstrung by ownership. Yes the Dodgers got the better of the deal. It does not mean that dealing Donovan is a bad idea today because he doesn't HAVE to deal him. It doesn't mean he will lost in a deal today. Clearer?
Re: Bloom will listen to interest for Donovan and Noot
Posted: 15 Oct 2025 14:52 pm
by ScotchMIrish
ecleme22 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 13:27 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 13:18 pm
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 12:57 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 11:51 am
I'm aware of that. The best deal he could get was Verdugo and a couple mediocre to poor prospects for Betts? Why would we think get will get something for Donovan based upon that failure?
Not close to the same thing. Donovan isn't expensive yet nor is management publicly pushing to trade him. His 2026 salary is $5.76 mil and there are still two years of arb left.
Donovan has significant value based on cost, performance and control. All 3 factors matter in the value of a player in trade. Betts even in arb was expensive and BOS made it known he was gone to get under the cap. That seriously reduces the negotiating position for a team.
IMO trading Donovan now is a smart move. Reasons are:
STL will not be in contention in 2026. Probably not 2027 which I believe will be a lock out year anyway.
This might be peak Donovan. Expecting him to improve dramatically on this year starting at age 29 is silly. Most players have their peaks at 27-30. He broke out and 2-3 WAR is probably it. He will never be more valuable.
IMO he would return two prospects. One in the top 100 of baseball rankings or top 10 in STL farm. Another who would rank somewhere in the top 30 of the STL farm system.
Agreed the result for BOS was poor. Verdugo fizzled but was highly regarded, Note also they dumped Price on the Dodgers too. No one can guarantee trades or prospects, As we well know sometimes they just don't pop. But the key for STL right now is to amass as many of them as possible and hope some do. And Donovan won't make a darn bit of difference in the next competitive STL team so why not cash him in on a guy who might?
Friedman robbed Bloom. Any way you look it that's a fact. Dodgers may pass the Cardinals for most world series champions due to that trade.
Yes, the consensus is that Chaim Bloom failed to get a sufficient return for Mookie Betts, although he was not the one who initially decided to trade him. Bloom was tasked with trading Betts to reduce payroll, a decision driven by ownership, and while the return package was considered poor, some argue the trade's failure was inevitable given the circumstances. The return was not strong enough to make up for the loss of an MVP-caliber player, making it one of the most criticized trades in recent years.
Red Sox owner Henry has said it was a suggestion not a mandate. Either way Bloom failed to evaluate the prospects he received in return which doesn't give a lot of confidence in trading Donovan.
Re: Bloom will listen to interest for Donovan and Noot
Posted: 15 Oct 2025 15:00 pm
by ScotchMIrish
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 14:32 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 13:18 pm
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 12:57 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 11:51 am
I'm aware of that. The best deal he could get was Verdugo and a couple mediocre to poor prospects for Betts? Why would we think get will get something for Donovan based upon that failure?
Not close to the same thing. Donovan isn't expensive yet nor is management publicly pushing to trade him. His 2026 salary is $5.76 mil and there are still two years of arb left.
Donovan has significant value based on cost, performance and control. All 3 factors matter in the value of a player in trade. Betts even in arb was expensive and BOS made it known he was gone to get under the cap. That seriously reduces the negotiating position for a team.
IMO trading Donovan now is a smart move. Reasons are:
STL will not be in contention in 2026. Probably not 2027 which I believe will be a lock out year anyway.
This might be peak Donovan. Expecting him to improve dramatically on this year starting at age 29 is silly. Most players have their peaks at 27-30. He broke out and 2-3 WAR is probably it. He will never be more valuable.
IMO he would return two prospects. One in the top 100 of baseball rankings or top 10 in STL farm. Another who would rank somewhere in the top 30 of the STL farm system.
Agreed the result for BOS was poor. Verdugo fizzled but was highly regarded, Note also they dumped Price on the Dodgers too. No one can guarantee trades or prospects, As we well know sometimes they just don't pop. But the key for STL right now is to amass as many of them as possible and hope some do. And Donovan won't make a darn bit of difference in the next competitive STL team so why not cash him in on a guy who might?
Friedman robbed Bloom. Any way you look it that's a fact. Dodgers may pass the Cardinals for most world series champions due to that trade.
I will try to spell it out again. Bloom was hamstrung by ownership. Yes the Dodgers got the better of the deal. It does not mean that dealing Donovan is a bad idea today because he doesn't HAVE to deal him. It doesn't mean he will lost in a deal today. Clearer?
In January 2020 Red Sox owner said it was not a mandate.
https://bosoxinjection.com/2020/01/12/r ... ist-plans/
He comes across as kind of a goofball so who knows but that was prior to the Betts trade. Either way Bloom got robbed worse than any of Mozeliak's numerous questionable deals. He is supposedly a minor league guru but acquired next to nothing. If he trades Donovan I'm not willing to stipulate it will be for great players in return.
Re: Bloom will listen to interest for Donovan and Noot
Posted: 15 Oct 2025 15:46 pm
by ecleme22
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 15:00 pm
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 14:32 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 13:18 pm
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 12:57 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 11:51 am
I'm aware of that. The best deal he could get was Verdugo and a couple mediocre to poor prospects for Betts? Why would we think get will get something for Donovan based upon that failure?
Not close to the same thing. Donovan isn't expensive yet nor is management publicly pushing to trade him. His 2026 salary is $5.76 mil and there are still two years of arb left.
Donovan has significant value based on cost, performance and control. All 3 factors matter in the value of a player in trade. Betts even in arb was expensive and BOS made it known he was gone to get under the cap. That seriously reduces the negotiating position for a team.
IMO trading Donovan now is a smart move. Reasons are:
STL will not be in contention in 2026. Probably not 2027 which I believe will be a lock out year anyway.
This might be peak Donovan. Expecting him to improve dramatically on this year starting at age 29 is silly. Most players have their peaks at 27-30. He broke out and 2-3 WAR is probably it. He will never be more valuable.
IMO he would return two prospects. One in the top 100 of baseball rankings or top 10 in STL farm. Another who would rank somewhere in the top 30 of the STL farm system.
Agreed the result for BOS was poor. Verdugo fizzled but was highly regarded, Note also they dumped Price on the Dodgers too. No one can guarantee trades or prospects, As we well know sometimes they just don't pop. But the key for STL right now is to amass as many of them as possible and hope some do. And Donovan won't make a darn bit of difference in the next competitive STL team so why not cash him in on a guy who might?
Friedman robbed Bloom. Any way you look it that's a fact. Dodgers may pass the Cardinals for most world series champions due to that trade.
I will try to spell it out again. Bloom was hamstrung by ownership. Yes the Dodgers got the better of the deal. It does not mean that dealing Donovan is a bad idea today because he doesn't HAVE to deal him. It doesn't mean he will lost in a deal today. Clearer?
In January 2020 Red Sox owner said it was not a mandate.
https://bosoxinjection.com/2020/01/12/r ... ist-plans/
He comes across as kind of a goofball so who knows but that was prior to the Betts trade. Either way Bloom got robbed worse than any of Mozeliak's numerous questionable deals. He is supposedly a minor league guru but acquired next to nothing. If he trades Donovan I'm not willing to stipulate it will be for great players in return.
The crux of that article speaks to how Henry blatantly contradicted himself. You only highlighted the contradiction that supported your point.
Don't be disingenuous.
It was obvious that Henry wanted to get under the luxury tax.
Re: Bloom will listen to interest for Donovan and Noot
Posted: 15 Oct 2025 15:58 pm
by ScotchMIrish
ecleme22 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 15:46 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 15:00 pm
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 14:32 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 13:18 pm
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 12:57 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 11:51 am
I'm aware of that. The best deal he could get was Verdugo and a couple mediocre to poor prospects for Betts? Why would we think get will get something for Donovan based upon that failure?
Not close to the same thing. Donovan isn't expensive yet nor is management publicly pushing to trade him. His 2026 salary is $5.76 mil and there are still two years of arb left.
Donovan has significant value based on cost, performance and control. All 3 factors matter in the value of a player in trade. Betts even in arb was expensive and BOS made it known he was gone to get under the cap. That seriously reduces the negotiating position for a team.
IMO trading Donovan now is a smart move. Reasons are:
STL will not be in contention in 2026. Probably not 2027 which I believe will be a lock out year anyway.
This might be peak Donovan. Expecting him to improve dramatically on this year starting at age 29 is silly. Most players have their peaks at 27-30. He broke out and 2-3 WAR is probably it. He will never be more valuable.
IMO he would return two prospects. One in the top 100 of baseball rankings or top 10 in STL farm. Another who would rank somewhere in the top 30 of the STL farm system.
Agreed the result for BOS was poor. Verdugo fizzled but was highly regarded, Note also they dumped Price on the Dodgers too. No one can guarantee trades or prospects, As we well know sometimes they just don't pop. But the key for STL right now is to amass as many of them as possible and hope some do. And Donovan won't make a darn bit of difference in the next competitive STL team so why not cash him in on a guy who might?
Friedman robbed Bloom. Any way you look it that's a fact. Dodgers may pass the Cardinals for most world series champions due to that trade.
I will try to spell it out again. Bloom was hamstrung by ownership. Yes the Dodgers got the better of the deal. It does not mean that dealing Donovan is a bad idea today because he doesn't HAVE to deal him. It doesn't mean he will lost in a deal today. Clearer?
In January 2020 Red Sox owner said it was not a mandate.
https://bosoxinjection.com/2020/01/12/r ... ist-plans/
He comes across as kind of a goofball so who knows but that was prior to the Betts trade. Either way Bloom got robbed worse than any of Mozeliak's numerous questionable deals. He is supposedly a minor league guru but acquired next to nothing. If he trades Donovan I'm not willing to stipulate it will be for great players in return.
The crux of that article speaks to how Henry blatantly contradicted himself. You only highlighted the contradiction that supported your point.
Don't be disingenuous.
It was obvious that Henry wanted to get under the luxury tax.
He did contradict himself but prior to the Betts trade he said publicly there was no mandate. Either way Bloom's analysis of the prospects was flawed. His mentor in Tampa robbed him.
Re: Bloom will listen to interest for Donovan and Noot
Posted: 15 Oct 2025 16:06 pm
by ramfandan
Years ago in Green Bay, I remember draft guru and GM Ron Wolf state (paraphrasing ) .. You don't trade quality for quantity.
One 'star' player is worth a lot more than 4 or 5 'good ' players. The exceptional players are the difference makers.
That thinking is true in the Mookie Betts deal.
Years ago in the NFL , the LA Rams traded Hall of Famer back Ollie Matson for 9 players total ... 7 players, a 2nd round pick, and a player to be named later .
Years later most NLF observers said the 9 still didn't match what Ollie Matson was
Re: Bloom will listen to interest for Donovan and Noot
Posted: 15 Oct 2025 16:16 pm
by ecleme22
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 15:58 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 15:46 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 15:00 pm
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 14:32 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 13:18 pm
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 12:57 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 11:51 am
I'm aware of that. The best deal he could get was Verdugo and a couple mediocre to poor prospects for Betts? Why would we think get will get something for Donovan based upon that failure?
Not close to the same thing. Donovan isn't expensive yet nor is management publicly pushing to trade him. His 2026 salary is $5.76 mil and there are still two years of arb left.
Donovan has significant value based on cost, performance and control. All 3 factors matter in the value of a player in trade. Betts even in arb was expensive and BOS made it known he was gone to get under the cap. That seriously reduces the negotiating position for a team.
IMO trading Donovan now is a smart move. Reasons are:
STL will not be in contention in 2026. Probably not 2027 which I believe will be a lock out year anyway.
This might be peak Donovan. Expecting him to improve dramatically on this year starting at age 29 is silly. Most players have their peaks at 27-30. He broke out and 2-3 WAR is probably it. He will never be more valuable.
IMO he would return two prospects. One in the top 100 of baseball rankings or top 10 in STL farm. Another who would rank somewhere in the top 30 of the STL farm system.
Agreed the result for BOS was poor. Verdugo fizzled but was highly regarded, Note also they dumped Price on the Dodgers too. No one can guarantee trades or prospects, As we well know sometimes they just don't pop. But the key for STL right now is to amass as many of them as possible and hope some do. And Donovan won't make a darn bit of difference in the next competitive STL team so why not cash him in on a guy who might?
Friedman robbed Bloom. Any way you look it that's a fact. Dodgers may pass the Cardinals for most world series champions due to that trade.
I will try to spell it out again. Bloom was hamstrung by ownership. Yes the Dodgers got the better of the deal. It does not mean that dealing Donovan is a bad idea today because he doesn't HAVE to deal him. It doesn't mean he will lost in a deal today. Clearer?
In January 2020 Red Sox owner said it was not a mandate.
https://bosoxinjection.com/2020/01/12/r ... ist-plans/
He comes across as kind of a goofball so who knows but that was prior to the Betts trade. Either way Bloom got robbed worse than any of Mozeliak's numerous questionable deals. He is supposedly a minor league guru but acquired next to nothing. If he trades Donovan I'm not willing to stipulate it will be for great players in return.
The crux of that article speaks to how Henry blatantly contradicted himself. You only highlighted the contradiction that supported your point.
Don't be disingenuous.
It was obvious that Henry wanted to get under the luxury tax.
He did contradict himself but prior to the Betts trade he said publicly there was no mandate. Either way Bloom's analysis of the prospects was flawed. His mentor in Tampa robbed him.
He did contradict himself. He said the fall before about staying below the luxury tax.
So you think Bloom just went rogue and traded one of the best players on the planet for prospects?
Don't be willfully obtuse.
Betts was on a 1 year /27mil contract. David Price was owed 94mil.
Henry didn't want to sign Betts long term and wanted out of the Price deal.
Bloom found a team to do both.
Re: Bloom will listen to interest for Donovan and Noot
Posted: 15 Oct 2025 18:25 pm
by ScotchMIrish
ecleme22 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 16:16 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 15:58 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 15:46 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 15:00 pm
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 14:32 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 13:18 pm
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 12:57 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 11:51 am
I'm aware of that. The best deal he could get was Verdugo and a couple mediocre to poor prospects for Betts? Why would we think get will get something for Donovan based upon that failure?
Not close to the same thing. Donovan isn't expensive yet nor is management publicly pushing to trade him. His 2026 salary is $5.76 mil and there are still two years of arb left.
Donovan has significant value based on cost, performance and control. All 3 factors matter in the value of a player in trade. Betts even in arb was expensive and BOS made it known he was gone to get under the cap. That seriously reduces the negotiating position for a team.
IMO trading Donovan now is a smart move. Reasons are:
STL will not be in contention in 2026. Probably not 2027 which I believe will be a lock out year anyway.
This might be peak Donovan. Expecting him to improve dramatically on this year starting at age 29 is silly. Most players have their peaks at 27-30. He broke out and 2-3 WAR is probably it. He will never be more valuable.
IMO he would return two prospects. One in the top 100 of baseball rankings or top 10 in STL farm. Another who would rank somewhere in the top 30 of the STL farm system.
Agreed the result for BOS was poor. Verdugo fizzled but was highly regarded, Note also they dumped Price on the Dodgers too. No one can guarantee trades or prospects, As we well know sometimes they just don't pop. But the key for STL right now is to amass as many of them as possible and hope some do. And Donovan won't make a darn bit of difference in the next competitive STL team so why not cash him in on a guy who might?
Friedman robbed Bloom. Any way you look it that's a fact. Dodgers may pass the Cardinals for most world series champions due to that trade.
I will try to spell it out again. Bloom was hamstrung by ownership. Yes the Dodgers got the better of the deal. It does not mean that dealing Donovan is a bad idea today because he doesn't HAVE to deal him. It doesn't mean he will lost in a deal today. Clearer?
In January 2020 Red Sox owner said it was not a mandate.
https://bosoxinjection.com/2020/01/12/r ... ist-plans/
He comes across as kind of a goofball so who knows but that was prior to the Betts trade. Either way Bloom got robbed worse than any of Mozeliak's numerous questionable deals. He is supposedly a minor league guru but acquired next to nothing. If he trades Donovan I'm not willing to stipulate it will be for great players in return.
The crux of that article speaks to how Henry blatantly contradicted himself. You only highlighted the contradiction that supported your point.
Don't be disingenuous.
It was obvious that Henry wanted to get under the luxury tax.
He did contradict himself but prior to the Betts trade he said publicly there was no mandate. Either way Bloom's analysis of the prospects was flawed. His mentor in Tampa robbed him.
He did contradict himself. He said the fall before about staying below the luxury tax.
So you think Bloom just went rogue and traded one of the best players on the planet for prospects?
Don't be willfully obtuse.
Betts was on a 1 year /27mil contract. David Price was owed 94mil.
Henry didn't want to sign Betts long term and wanted out of the Price deal.
Bloom found a team to do both.
I posted one of several links prior to the trade. If you are correct then were the Dodgers the only team willing to trade some weak minor leaguers an average player in Verdugo for Betts? If that's the best he could do I'll be curious to see what he gets for Donovan.
Re: Bloom will listen to interest for Donovan and Noot
Posted: 15 Oct 2025 18:35 pm
by Ozziesfan41
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 18:25 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 16:16 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 15:58 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 15:46 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 15:00 pm
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 14:32 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 13:18 pm
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 12:57 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 11:51 am
I'm aware of that. The best deal he could get was Verdugo and a couple mediocre to poor prospects for Betts? Why would we think get will get something for Donovan based upon that failure?
Not close to the same thing. Donovan isn't expensive yet nor is management publicly pushing to trade him. His 2026 salary is $5.76 mil and there are still two years of arb left.
Donovan has significant value based on cost, performance and control. All 3 factors matter in the value of a player in trade. Betts even in arb was expensive and BOS made it known he was gone to get under the cap. That seriously reduces the negotiating position for a team.
IMO trading Donovan now is a smart move. Reasons are:
STL will not be in contention in 2026. Probably not 2027 which I believe will be a lock out year anyway.
This might be peak Donovan. Expecting him to improve dramatically on this year starting at age 29 is silly. Most players have their peaks at 27-30. He broke out and 2-3 WAR is probably it. He will never be more valuable.
IMO he would return two prospects. One in the top 100 of baseball rankings or top 10 in STL farm. Another who would rank somewhere in the top 30 of the STL farm system.
Agreed the result for BOS was poor. Verdugo fizzled but was highly regarded, Note also they dumped Price on the Dodgers too. No one can guarantee trades or prospects, As we well know sometimes they just don't pop. But the key for STL right now is to amass as many of them as possible and hope some do. And Donovan won't make a darn bit of difference in the next competitive STL team so why not cash him in on a guy who might?
Friedman robbed Bloom. Any way you look it that's a fact. Dodgers may pass the Cardinals for most world series champions due to that trade.
I will try to spell it out again. Bloom was hamstrung by ownership. Yes the Dodgers got the better of the deal. It does not mean that dealing Donovan is a bad idea today because he doesn't HAVE to deal him. It doesn't mean he will lost in a deal today. Clearer?
In January 2020 Red Sox owner said it was not a mandate.
https://bosoxinjection.com/2020/01/12/r ... ist-plans/
He comes across as kind of a goofball so who knows but that was prior to the Betts trade. Either way Bloom got robbed worse than any of Mozeliak's numerous questionable deals. He is supposedly a minor league guru but acquired next to nothing. If he trades Donovan I'm not willing to stipulate it will be for great players in return.
The crux of that article speaks to how Henry blatantly contradicted himself. You only highlighted the contradiction that supported your point.
Don't be disingenuous.
It was obvious that Henry wanted to get under the luxury tax.
He did contradict himself but prior to the Betts trade he said publicly there was no mandate. Either way Bloom's analysis of the prospects was flawed. His mentor in Tampa robbed him.
He did contradict himself. He said the fall before about staying below the luxury tax.
So you think Bloom just went rogue and traded one of the best players on the planet for prospects?
Don't be willfully obtuse.
Betts was on a 1 year /27mil contract. David Price was owed 94mil.
Henry didn't want to sign Betts long term and wanted out of the Price deal.
Bloom found a team to do both.
I posted one of several links prior to the trade. If you are correct then were the Dodgers the only team willing to trade some weak minor leaguers an average player in Verdugo for Betts? If that's the best he could do I'll be curious to see what he gets for Donovan.
I’m sure a lot of teams would have but they wouldn’t have taken prices contract without the redsox eating a huge chunk of it
Re: Bloom will listen to interest for Donovan and Noot
Posted: 15 Oct 2025 18:48 pm
by ecleme22
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 18:25 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 16:16 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 15:58 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 15:46 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 15:00 pm
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 14:32 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 13:18 pm
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 12:57 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 11:51 am
I'm aware of that. The best deal he could get was Verdugo and a couple mediocre to poor prospects for Betts? Why would we think get will get something for Donovan based upon that failure?
Not close to the same thing. Donovan isn't expensive yet nor is management publicly pushing to trade him. His 2026 salary is $5.76 mil and there are still two years of arb left.
Donovan has significant value based on cost, performance and control. All 3 factors matter in the value of a player in trade. Betts even in arb was expensive and BOS made it known he was gone to get under the cap. That seriously reduces the negotiating position for a team.
IMO trading Donovan now is a smart move. Reasons are:
STL will not be in contention in 2026. Probably not 2027 which I believe will be a lock out year anyway.
This might be peak Donovan. Expecting him to improve dramatically on this year starting at age 29 is silly. Most players have their peaks at 27-30. He broke out and 2-3 WAR is probably it. He will never be more valuable.
IMO he would return two prospects. One in the top 100 of baseball rankings or top 10 in STL farm. Another who would rank somewhere in the top 30 of the STL farm system.
Agreed the result for BOS was poor. Verdugo fizzled but was highly regarded, Note also they dumped Price on the Dodgers too. No one can guarantee trades or prospects, As we well know sometimes they just don't pop. But the key for STL right now is to amass as many of them as possible and hope some do. And Donovan won't make a darn bit of difference in the next competitive STL team so why not cash him in on a guy who might?
Friedman robbed Bloom. Any way you look it that's a fact. Dodgers may pass the Cardinals for most world series champions due to that trade.
I will try to spell it out again. Bloom was hamstrung by ownership. Yes the Dodgers got the better of the deal. It does not mean that dealing Donovan is a bad idea today because he doesn't HAVE to deal him. It doesn't mean he will lost in a deal today. Clearer?
In January 2020 Red Sox owner said it was not a mandate.
https://bosoxinjection.com/2020/01/12/r ... ist-plans/
He comes across as kind of a goofball so who knows but that was prior to the Betts trade. Either way Bloom got robbed worse than any of Mozeliak's numerous questionable deals. He is supposedly a minor league guru but acquired next to nothing. If he trades Donovan I'm not willing to stipulate it will be for great players in return.
The crux of that article speaks to how Henry blatantly contradicted himself. You only highlighted the contradiction that supported your point.
Don't be disingenuous.
It was obvious that Henry wanted to get under the luxury tax.
He did contradict himself but prior to the Betts trade he said publicly there was no mandate. Either way Bloom's analysis of the prospects was flawed. His mentor in Tampa robbed him.
He did contradict himself. He said the fall before about staying below the luxury tax.
So you think Bloom just went rogue and traded one of the best players on the planet for prospects?
Don't be willfully obtuse.
Betts was on a 1 year /27mil contract. David Price was owed 94mil.
Henry didn't want to sign Betts long term and wanted out of the Price deal.
Bloom found a team to do both.
I posted one of several links prior to the trade. If you are correct then were the Dodgers the only team willing to trade some weak minor leaguers an average player in Verdugo for Betts? If that's the best he could do I'll be curious to see what he gets for Donovan.
The dodgers were probably the only team willing to take Betts + Price.
And no, of course that wasn’t the best Bloom could do. It came from pressure from ownership.
Don’t be willfully obtuse.
Donovan has two years left on his deal, is cheap, and won’t have a David Price contract included
Re: Bloom will listen to interest for Donovan and Noot
Posted: 15 Oct 2025 18:49 pm
by ecleme22
ecleme22 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 12:00 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 07:56 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 20:04 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 19:03 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:18 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:06 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 09:17 am
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 09:11 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 08:52 am
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 08:49 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 08:38 am
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 08:32 am
Your point is what? Chapman was 35 years old. Is Donovan 35 years old? Cubs offered Samardzija within $1 million per year of what he signed for. Have the Cardinals offered Donovan a market value contract?
I'm unclear as to what you are saying.
We are talking Hammel and Jeff S.
You realize the Cubs had a REALLY good starting staff in 2014 and were in year 3 of a crazy rebuild. Why would they trade Jeff S and Hammel? 40% OF THEIR STARTING STAFF???
You said Jeff S. rejected a deal. So? There's like nearly two years to offer another deal. YET, they traded him.
WHY?
You asked about the Royals trading Chapman. He was 35 years old. Is Donovan 35 years old. Cubs offered Samardzija within $1 million a year of what he got from the Giants. Have the Cardinals offered Donovan a market value contract? They traded Hammel because they planned to re-sign him and did.
What is your point as it relates to Bloom shopping Donovan?
Answer my question.
Why would the ascending 2014 cubs trade 40% of their really good pitching staff????
You asked why the Royals traded Chapman and why the Cubs traded Samardzija and Hammel. I researched and explained in great detail why they traded them. What part of my explanation do you fail to comprehend?
More detail. They were traded on July 4, 2014. The Cubs 38-46 and in last place. Are you saying the Cardinals who were 5 games over .500 at the all star break should have traded Donovan?
I'm confused.
Why would a team, the 2014 cubs, who are building for the future trade two really good starters? One, Jeff, being an all star?
They re-signed one and tried to sign the other. Are you saying the Cardinals offered Donovan a market value contract?
Hammel: Why trade him at all? Why not give him an extension?
Jeff S.: Why not offer him a better contract?
They signed Hammel in the off season.
They didn't want to overpay for Samardzija.
The only way trading Donovan makes sense is if Bloom has been in contract talks and Donovan wants an inordinate amount of money.
Here’s what the 2014 Cubs did:
—They traded TWO really good starters for prospects.
Now, if Scotch were a Cubs fan, what would he say?
“The Cubs are turning into the Pirates.”
“You don’t get rid of talent! You build around it.”
“I guess the Cubs no longer care about winning!”
The following offseason, the Cubs—-wait for it—-added two pitchers in free agency! They brought back Hammel and signed Lester to $155mil.
Oh yeah….and they got this young stud Addison Russell in the Jeff/Hammel trade that helped them eventually win the WS.
See the forest through the trees, Scotch. You have no idea if a BD trade is the start of an amazing string of moves where, by the end, you’re forgetting about Donovan the same way Cubs fans forgot about Jeff S….
Bump, Scotch….
Now reply to this….
I love how Scotch doesn’t want to reply to this…
Re: Bloom will listen to interest for Donovan and Noot
Posted: 15 Oct 2025 19:22 pm
by Talkin' Baseball
You guys are relentless.
Re: Bloom will listen to interest for Donovan and Noot
Posted: 15 Oct 2025 21:03 pm
by ScotchMIrish
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 18:35 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 18:25 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 16:16 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 15:58 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 15:46 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 15:00 pm
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 14:32 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 13:18 pm
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 12:57 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 11:51 am
I'm aware of that. The best deal he could get was Verdugo and a couple mediocre to poor prospects for Betts? Why would we think get will get something for Donovan based upon that failure?
Not close to the same thing. Donovan isn't expensive yet nor is management publicly pushing to trade him. His 2026 salary is $5.76 mil and there are still two years of arb left.
Donovan has significant value based on cost, performance and control. All 3 factors matter in the value of a player in trade. Betts even in arb was expensive and BOS made it known he was gone to get under the cap. That seriously reduces the negotiating position for a team.
IMO trading Donovan now is a smart move. Reasons are:
STL will not be in contention in 2026. Probably not 2027 which I believe will be a lock out year anyway.
This might be peak Donovan. Expecting him to improve dramatically on this year starting at age 29 is silly. Most players have their peaks at 27-30. He broke out and 2-3 WAR is probably it. He will never be more valuable.
IMO he would return two prospects. One in the top 100 of baseball rankings or top 10 in STL farm. Another who would rank somewhere in the top 30 of the STL farm system.
Agreed the result for BOS was poor. Verdugo fizzled but was highly regarded, Note also they dumped Price on the Dodgers too. No one can guarantee trades or prospects, As we well know sometimes they just don't pop. But the key for STL right now is to amass as many of them as possible and hope some do. And Donovan won't make a darn bit of difference in the next competitive STL team so why not cash him in on a guy who might?
Friedman robbed Bloom. Any way you look it that's a fact. Dodgers may pass the Cardinals for most world series champions due to that trade.
I will try to spell it out again. Bloom was hamstrung by ownership. Yes the Dodgers got the better of the deal. It does not mean that dealing Donovan is a bad idea today because he doesn't HAVE to deal him. It doesn't mean he will lost in a deal today. Clearer?
In January 2020 Red Sox owner said it was not a mandate.
https://bosoxinjection.com/2020/01/12/r ... ist-plans/
He comes across as kind of a goofball so who knows but that was prior to the Betts trade. Either way Bloom got robbed worse than any of Mozeliak's numerous questionable deals. He is supposedly a minor league guru but acquired next to nothing. If he trades Donovan I'm not willing to stipulate it will be for great players in return.
The crux of that article speaks to how Henry blatantly contradicted himself. You only highlighted the contradiction that supported your point.
Don't be disingenuous.
It was obvious that Henry wanted to get under the luxury tax.
He did contradict himself but prior to the Betts trade he said publicly there was no mandate. Either way Bloom's analysis of the prospects was flawed. His mentor in Tampa robbed him.
He did contradict himself. He said the fall before about staying below the luxury tax.
So you think Bloom just went rogue and traded one of the best players on the planet for prospects?
Don't be willfully obtuse.
Betts was on a 1 year /27mil contract. David Price was owed 94mil.
Henry didn't want to sign Betts long term and wanted out of the Price deal.
Bloom found a team to do both.
I posted one of several links prior to the trade. If you are correct then were the Dodgers the only team willing to trade some weak minor leaguers an average player in Verdugo for Betts? If that's the best he could do I'll be curious to see what he gets for Donovan.
I’m sure a lot of teams would have but they wouldn’t have taken prices contract without the redsox eating a huge chunk of it
Red Sox ate half - $48 million.