Page 17 of 17
Re: In my opinion it's defense first
Posted: 17 Dec 2025 09:53 am
by WLTFE
OldRed wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 09:07 am
Cranny wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 08:57 am
Just Whit wrote: ↑16 Dec 2025 19:26 pm
OldRed wrote: ↑16 Dec 2025 17:48 pm
From this time forward I consider Cranny a sick old man who can't admit when he is wrong.
And you are an old 'know it all" a**hole, you're worse.
Agree. It's actually very sad.
Oh no!...you're on ignore!...we know that threat is bull[shirt]!
Re: In my opinion it's defense first
Posted: 17 Dec 2025 10:04 am
by Cranny
ecleme22 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:17 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:59 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:28 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:27 am
With the Cardinals lack of good starting pitching in my opinion any trade they make should be for defense first, then hitting second.
Then you keep Arenado.
If you have to pay half his salary to dump him yes, keep him for his defense.
Depends what you get for him.
I’m guessing CB will grab a def first 2b/3b if he trades NA and BD
Ecleme - Since there's not a whole lot of power at other positions, don't we need to have some power
at the corner infield and outfield positions? Since we ranked second to last among the 30 MLB teams in
home runs last season, power has to come from somewhere. We have some 20 home run hitters, but don't we
need at least one 30+ HR hitter in the middle of the lineup?
Re: In my opinion it's defense first
Posted: 17 Dec 2025 11:40 am
by OldRed
Cranny wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 10:04 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:17 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:59 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:28 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:27 am
With the Cardinals lack of good starting pitching in my opinion any trade they make should be for defense first, then hitting second.
Then you keep Arenado.
If you have to pay half his salary to dump him yes, keep him for his defense.
Depends what you get for him.
I’m guessing CB will grab a def first 2b/3b if he trades NA and BD
Ecleme - Since there's not a whole lot of power at other positions, don't we need to have some power
at the corner infield and outfield positions? Since we ranked second to last among the 30 MLB teams in
home runs last season, power has to come from somewhere. We have some 20 home run hitters, but don't we
need at least one 30+ HR hitter in the middle of the lineup?
And what (who) do they have to trade for this 30+ HR hitter?
Re: In my opinion it's defense first
Posted: 17 Dec 2025 11:51 am
by sikeston bulldog2
OldRed wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 11:40 am
Cranny wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 10:04 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:17 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:59 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:28 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:27 am
With the Cardinals lack of good starting pitching in my opinion any trade they make should be for defense first, then hitting second.
Then you keep Arenado.
If you have to pay half his salary to dump him yes, keep him for his defense.
Depends what you get for him.
I’m guessing CB will grab a def first 2b/3b if he trades NA and BD
Ecleme - Since there's not a whole lot of power at other positions, don't we need to have some power
at the corner infield and outfield positions? Since we ranked second to last among the 30 MLB teams in
home runs last season, power has to come from somewhere. We have some 20 home run hitters, but don't we
need at least one 30+ HR hitter in the middle of the lineup?
And what (who) do they have to trade for this 30+ HR hitter?
There were four positions mentioned- all four corners of the field. We have Willy at first. Walker, who will improve, in right. Leaves third and left. I’d put Herrera in left. That leaves third. I’d put JJ there.
Now I got power in all four corners, and can trade or use money to sign stud aces.
Re: In my opinion it's defense first
Posted: 17 Dec 2025 12:27 pm
by renostl
OldRed wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 11:40 am
Cranny wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 10:04 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:17 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:59 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:28 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:27 am
With the Cardinals lack of good starting pitching in my opinion any trade they make should be for defense first, then hitting second.
Then you keep Arenado.
If you have to pay half his salary to dump him yes, keep him for his defense.
Depends what you get for him.
I’m guessing CB will grab a def first 2b/3b if he trades NA and BD
Ecleme - Since there's not a whole lot of power at other positions, don't we need to have some power
at the corner infield and outfield positions? Since we ranked second to last among the 30 MLB teams in
home runs last season, power has to come from somewhere. We have some 20 home run hitters, but don't we
need at least one 30+ HR hitter in the middle of the lineup?
And what (who) do they have to trade for this 30+ HR hitter?
It's where the Eldridge rumors would make sense. I think
the Cards would need to add to get him.
Re: In my opinion it's defense first
Posted: 17 Dec 2025 12:32 pm
by renostl
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 11:51 am
OldRed wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 11:40 am
Cranny wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 10:04 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:17 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:59 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:28 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:27 am
With the Cardinals lack of good starting pitching in my opinion any trade they make should be for defense first, then hitting second.
Then you keep Arenado.
If you have to pay half his salary to dump him yes, keep him for his defense.
Depends what you get for him.
I’m guessing CB will grab a def first 2b/3b if he trades NA and BD
Ecleme - Since there's not a whole lot of power at other positions, don't we need to have some power
at the corner infield and outfield positions? Since we ranked second to last among the 30 MLB teams in
home runs last season, power has to come from somewhere. We have some 20 home run hitters, but don't we
need at least one 30+ HR hitter in the middle of the lineup?
And what (who) do they have to trade for this 30+ HR hitter?
There were four positions mentioned- all four corners of the field. We have Willy at first. Walker, who will improve, in right. Leaves third and left. I’d put Herrera in left. That leaves third. I’d put JJ there.
Now I got power in all four corners, and can trade or use money to sign stud aces.
It's what is on the roster.
It seems a long ways away from the subject of this thread in that outfield.
and really not too sure any of them hit 25 HRs.
Re: In my opinion it's defense first
Posted: 17 Dec 2025 16:52 pm
by Cranny
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 11:51 am
OldRed wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 11:40 am
Cranny wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 10:04 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:17 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:59 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:28 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:27 am
With the Cardinals lack of good starting pitching in my opinion any trade they make should be for defense first, then hitting second.
Then you keep Arenado.
If you have to pay half his salary to dump him yes, keep him for his defense.
Depends what you get for him.
I’m guessing CB will grab a def first 2b/3b if he trades NA and BD
Ecleme - Since there's not a whole lot of power at other positions, don't we need to have some power
at the corner infield and outfield positions? Since we ranked second to last among the 30 MLB teams in
home runs last season, power has to come from somewhere. We have some 20 home run hitters, but don't we
need at least one 30+ HR hitter in the middle of the lineup?
And what (who) do they have to trade for this 30+ HR hitter?
There were four positions mentioned- all four corners of the field. We have Willy at first. Walker, who will improve, in right. Leaves third and left. I’d put Herrera in left. That leaves third. I’d put JJ there.
Now I got power in all four corners, and can trade or use money to sign stud aces.
Not real power though.
Contreras - 20 home runs in 135 games.
Herrera - 19 home runs in 107 games
Walker - 6 home runs in 111 games
JJ - 17 home runs in 109 minor league games
No real "bopper".
Re: In my opinion it's defense first
Posted: 17 Dec 2025 18:55 pm
by sikeston bulldog2
Cranny wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 16:52 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 11:51 am
OldRed wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 11:40 am
Cranny wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 10:04 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:17 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:59 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:28 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:27 am
With the Cardinals lack of good starting pitching in my opinion any trade they make should be for defense first, then hitting second.
Then you keep Arenado.
If you have to pay half his salary to dump him yes, keep him for his defense.
Depends what you get for him.
I’m guessing CB will grab a def first 2b/3b if he trades NA and BD
Ecleme - Since there's not a whole lot of power at other positions, don't we need to have some power
at the corner infield and outfield positions? Since we ranked second to last among the 30 MLB teams in
home runs last season, power has to come from somewhere. We have some 20 home run hitters, but don't we
need at least one 30+ HR hitter in the middle of the lineup?
And what (who) do they have to trade for this 30+ HR hitter?
There were four positions mentioned- all four corners of the field. We have Willy at first. Walker, who will improve, in right. Leaves third and left. I’d put Herrera in left. That leaves third. I’d put JJ there.
Now I got power in all four corners, and can trade or use money to sign stud aces.
Not real power though.
Contreras - 20 home runs in 135 games.
Herrera - 19 home runs in 107 games
Walker - 6 home runs in 111 games
JJ - 17 home runs in 109 minor league games
No real "bopper".
Don’t need a bopper. Remember this fact. These four that will hit 15-20 homers will also hit many doubles. Boppers don’t hit doubles.
Re: In my opinion it's defense first
Posted: 18 Dec 2025 15:03 pm
by Cranny
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 18:55 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 16:52 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 11:51 am
OldRed wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 11:40 am
Cranny wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 10:04 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:17 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:59 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:28 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:27 am
With the Cardinals lack of good starting pitching in my opinion any trade they make should be for defense first, then hitting second.
Then you keep Arenado.
If you have to pay half his salary to dump him yes, keep him for his defense.
Depends what you get for him.
I’m guessing CB will grab a def first 2b/3b if he trades NA and BD
Ecleme - Since there's not a whole lot of power at other positions, don't we need to have some power
at the corner infield and outfield positions? Since we ranked second to last among the 30 MLB teams in
home runs last season, power has to come from somewhere. We have some 20 home run hitters, but don't we
need at least one 30+ HR hitter in the middle of the lineup?
And what (who) do they have to trade for this 30+ HR hitter?
There were four positions mentioned- all four corners of the field. We have Willy at first. Walker, who will improve, in right. Leaves third and left. I’d put Herrera in left. That leaves third. I’d put JJ there.
Now I got power in all four corners, and can trade or use money to sign stud aces.
Not real power though.
Contreras - 20 home runs in 135 games.
Herrera - 19 home runs in 107 games
Walker - 6 home runs in 111 games
JJ - 17 home runs in 109 minor league games
No real "bopper".
Don’t need a bopper. Remember this fact. These four that will hit 15-20 homers will also hit many doubles. Boppers don’t hit doubles.
Fair enough. We need guys who can drive in runs. Clutch guys who come through with RISP.
Re: In my opinion it's defense first
Posted: 18 Dec 2025 15:18 pm
by 12xu
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 18:55 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 16:52 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 11:51 am
OldRed wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 11:40 am
Cranny wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 10:04 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:17 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:59 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:28 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:27 am
With the Cardinals lack of good starting pitching in my opinion any trade they make should be for defense first, then hitting second.
Then you keep Arenado.
If you have to pay half his salary to dump him yes, keep him for his defense.
Depends what you get for him.
I’m guessing CB will grab a def first 2b/3b if he trades NA and BD
Ecleme - Since there's not a whole lot of power at other positions, don't we need to have some power
at the corner infield and outfield positions? Since we ranked second to last among the 30 MLB teams in
home runs last season, power has to come from somewhere. We have some 20 home run hitters, but don't we
need at least one 30+ HR hitter in the middle of the lineup?
And what (who) do they have to trade for this 30+ HR hitter?
There were four positions mentioned- all four corners of the field. We have Willy at first. Walker, who will improve, in right. Leaves third and left. I’d put Herrera in left. That leaves third. I’d put JJ there.
Now I got power in all four corners, and can trade or use money to sign stud aces.
Not real power though.
Contreras - 20 home runs in 135 games.
Herrera - 19 home runs in 107 games
Walker - 6 home runs in 111 games
JJ - 17 home runs in 109 minor league games
No real "bopper".
Don’t need a bopper. Remember this fact. These four that will hit 15-20 homers will also hit many doubles. Boppers don’t hit doubles.
Two Cardinal "boppers" are #3 and #5 in lifetime doubles - Stan the Man and Albert
Re: In my opinion it's defense first
Posted: 18 Dec 2025 15:28 pm
by sikeston bulldog2
12xu wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 15:18 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 18:55 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 16:52 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 11:51 am
OldRed wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 11:40 am
Cranny wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 10:04 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:17 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:59 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:28 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:27 am
With the Cardinals lack of good starting pitching in my opinion any trade they make should be for defense first, then hitting second.
Then you keep Arenado.
If you have to pay half his salary to dump him yes, keep him for his defense.
Depends what you get for him.
I’m guessing CB will grab a def first 2b/3b if he trades NA and BD
Ecleme - Since there's not a whole lot of power at other positions, don't we need to have some power
at the corner infield and outfield positions? Since we ranked second to last among the 30 MLB teams in
home runs last season, power has to come from somewhere. We have some 20 home run hitters, but don't we
need at least one 30+ HR hitter in the middle of the lineup?
And what (who) do they have to trade for this 30+ HR hitter?
There were four positions mentioned- all four corners of the field. We have Willy at first. Walker, who will improve, in right. Leaves third and left. I’d put Herrera in left. That leaves third. I’d put JJ there.
Now I got power in all four corners, and can trade or use money to sign stud aces.
Not real power though.
Contreras - 20 home runs in 135 games.
Herrera - 19 home runs in 107 games
Walker - 6 home runs in 111 games
JJ - 17 home runs in 109 minor league games
No real "bopper".
Don’t need a bopper. Remember this fact. These four that will hit 15-20 homers will also hit many doubles. Boppers don’t hit doubles.
Two Cardinal "boppers" are #3 and #5 in lifetime doubles - Stan the Man and Albert
I stand corrected. I was thinking of present day but still might be wrong. Good input.
Re: In my opinion it's defense first
Posted: 18 Dec 2025 17:35 pm
by renostl
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 15:28 pm
12xu wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 15:18 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 18:55 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 16:52 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 11:51 am
OldRed wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 11:40 am
Cranny wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 10:04 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:17 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:59 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:28 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:27 am
With the Cardinals lack of good starting pitching in my opinion any trade they make should be for defense first, then hitting second.
Then you keep Arenado.
If you have to pay half his salary to dump him yes, keep him for his defense.
Depends what you get for him.
I’m guessing CB will grab a def first 2b/3b if he trades NA and BD
Ecleme - Since there's not a whole lot of power at other positions, don't we need to have some power
at the corner infield and outfield positions? Since we ranked second to last among the 30 MLB teams in
home runs last season, power has to come from somewhere. We have some 20 home run hitters, but don't we
need at least one 30+ HR hitter in the middle of the lineup?
And what (who) do they have to trade for this 30+ HR hitter?
There were four positions mentioned- all four corners of the field. We have Willy at first. Walker, who will improve, in right. Leaves third and left. I’d put Herrera in left. That leaves third. I’d put JJ there.
Now I got power in all four corners, and can trade or use money to sign stud aces.
Not real power though.
Contreras - 20 home runs in 135 games.
Herrera - 19 home runs in 107 games
Walker - 6 home runs in 111 games
JJ - 17 home runs in 109 minor league games
No real "bopper".
Don’t need a bopper. Remember this fact. These four that will hit 15-20 homers will also hit many doubles. Boppers don’t hit doubles.
Two Cardinal "boppers" are #3 and #5 in lifetime doubles - Stan the Man and Albert
I stand corrected. I was thinking of present day but still might be wrong. Good input.
I think that we could get a rather strong consensus that those
are complete hitters, HOF hitters, even on CT.
Re: In my opinion it's defense first
Posted: 21 Dec 2025 05:24 am
by sikeston bulldog2
renostl wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 17:35 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 15:28 pm
12xu wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 15:18 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 18:55 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 16:52 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 11:51 am
OldRed wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 11:40 am
Cranny wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 10:04 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:17 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:59 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:28 am
OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:27 am
With the Cardinals lack of good starting pitching in my opinion any trade they make should be for defense first, then hitting second.
Then you keep Arenado.
If you have to pay half his salary to dump him yes, keep him for his defense.
Depends what you get for him.
I’m guessing CB will grab a def first 2b/3b if he trades NA and BD
Ecleme - Since there's not a whole lot of power at other positions, don't we need to have some power
at the corner infield and outfield positions? Since we ranked second to last among the 30 MLB teams in
home runs last season, power has to come from somewhere. We have some 20 home run hitters, but don't we
need at least one 30+ HR hitter in the middle of the lineup?
And what (who) do they have to trade for this 30+ HR hitter?
There were four positions mentioned- all four corners of the field. We have Willy at first. Walker, who will improve, in right. Leaves third and left. I’d put Herrera in left. That leaves third. I’d put JJ there.
Now I got power in all four corners, and can trade or use money to sign stud aces.
Not real power though.
Contreras - 20 home runs in 135 games.
Herrera - 19 home runs in 107 games
Walker - 6 home runs in 111 games
JJ - 17 home runs in 109 minor league games
No real "bopper".
Don’t need a bopper. Remember this fact. These four that will hit 15-20 homers will also hit many doubles. Boppers don’t hit doubles.
Two Cardinal "boppers" are #3 and #5 in lifetime doubles - Stan the Man and Albert
I stand corrected. I was thinking of present day but still might be wrong. Good input.
I think that we could get a rather strong consensus that those
are complete hitters, HOF hitters, even on CT.
My thought was that line drive hitters hit more doubles. Generally they have sufficient speed. Boppers in my mind hit towering homeruns. And are slow. Minimal doubles.
Re: In my opinion it's defense first
Posted: 21 Dec 2025 07:55 am
by Cranny
Maybe we should call it a "slugger" instead of a "bopper". Just someone with a high slugging %.
Re: In my opinion it's defense first
Posted: 21 Dec 2025 07:56 am
by sikeston bulldog2
Cranny wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 07:55 am
Maybe we should call it a "slugger" instead of a "bopper". Just someone with a high slugging %.
That’s fine.
Re: In my opinion it's defense first
Posted: 21 Dec 2025 08:12 am
by OldRed
Was Jack Clark a slugger or a bopper? In his 18-year career he only had one season with more than 28 home runs. But he drove in runs.