STLtoday.com

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑02 Aug 2025 07:55 am
Good write. I’m thinking between getting zero for Helsley if he walks, verse a lower return, they chose the latter. Do you think the market saw our position and react accordingly.

Yes. At the break we were down to the last chance to get something for him and had little leverage. Add to that several other closers were available. Plus they only got 2 months of him instead of a full season.

His value last December was that of the best closer of the year available to any contending team at a salary of $5.5 mil. A bargain and a great weapon out of the pen. Now he is STILL a closer and a weapon but not as effective as last year and only for two months. Plus some teams are no longer contenders and won't spend capital for him. Yeah, I think we could have done better. And I constantly said as much last off season. He and Fedde should have been moved and more low hanging fruit like Maton signed to be flipped.

Clearly the end result this year is no playoffs and low fan turnout. Same as if they did the real rebuild. Difference is the farm could have several much better prospects being groomed for the majors in 2026-2027.

Again I get it. It's a business and they have to balance a rebuild plan with ticket sales but IMO its a short sighted decision. A WS caliber team will fill the stands for years.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑01 Aug 2025 10:41 am Okay

Original:
by rockondlouie » 25 Feb 2025 10:29 am

With NADO + Helsley + Fedde all season:

86 - 76

Without those three:

71 - 91

August 1st, 2025:

Well Helsley is now gone, Fedde reeked and NADO is still here

But dealing Maton & Matz (right move) has really weakened the bull pen.

I now think my 71 - 91 will be a lot closer than my 86 - 76

Two pitiful seasons out of three HAS to get Oli FIRED, that would be the only saving grace for this season.

Oli is not the only problem here. Team just can't hit consistently. Not many clutch hitters on the team. Nado has fallen off a clift.
Maybe a new manager can energize the team.. i lnow the roster is weak in many areas. Someone has to find a way to get more from what is there

Charles King wrote: ↑02 Aug 2025 10:29 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑01 Aug 2025 10:41 am Okay

Original:
by rockondlouie » 25 Feb 2025 10:29 am

With NADO + Helsley + Fedde all season:

86 - 76

Without those three:

71 - 91

August 1st, 2025:

Well Helsley is now gone, Fedde reeked and NADO is still here

But dealing Maton & Matz (right move) has really weakened the bull pen.

I now think my 71 - 91 will be a lot closer than my 86 - 76

Two pitiful seasons out of three HAS to get Oli FIRED, that would be the only saving grace for this season.

Oli is not the only problem here. Team just can't hit consistently. Not many clutch hitters on the team. Nado has fallen off a clift.
Maybe a new manager can energize the team.. i lnow the roster is weak in many areas. Someone has to find a way to get more from what is there

And (IMO) CK, Oli isn't that manager (to get more out of the roster).

Seems like a nice guy, belongs at AA/AAA helping to develop young players.

I hope he's gone at seasons end.

If you're really going to promote CHANGE, then you can't keep him around.

Too much Mo and losing stank on Oli.

JMO

70-92.

Still 76-86, like preseason, but that appears generous under current circumstances.

skeezix wrote: ↑02 Aug 2025 10:53 am70-92.

That was my original predicted finish. I think they now have an excellent chance to approach that level of incompetence. Very good chance. Last night kind of made me sick watching. Can't even get angry anymore. Just accepting this level of blah.

MIDMOBIRDTWO wrote: ↑02 Aug 2025 11:17 am

skeezix wrote: ↑02 Aug 2025 10:53 am70-92.

That was my original predicted finish. I think they now have an excellent chance to approach that level of incompetence. Very good chance. Last night kind of made me sick watching. Can't even get angry anymore. Just accepting this level of blah.

same, although I still get angry at Oli

I'm down from 88 wins in the spring to 81 wins now. But trending downward every day the offense quits. ( Just give us some good at bats please.)

I'm still not ruling out a 17 game winning streak. But devil magic like that has passed on to other teams.

82birds wrote: ↑02 Aug 2025 11:24 am

MIDMOBIRDTWO wrote: ↑02 Aug 2025 11:17 am

skeezix wrote: ↑02 Aug 2025 10:53 am70-92.

That was my original predicted finish. I think they now have an excellent chance to approach that level of incompetence. Very good chance. Last night kind of made me sick watching. Can't even get angry anymore. Just accepting this level of blah.

same, although I still get angry at Oli

To me DeWitt is responsible, then MO. Oli is just a stooge for them, and I think the players are painfully aware of what is going on and is a key reason for their quitting.

Does anyone see them finishing at or above .500? I do not.

butsir01 wrote: ↑02 Aug 2025 12:03 pm Does anyone see them finishing at or above .500? I do not.

I still have them right at .500. But I'm a nutcase.

butsir01 wrote: ↑02 Aug 2025 12:03 pm Does anyone see them finishing at or above .500? I do not.

Unless they win today I see them never seeing .500 again. They could be Rockies bad the rest of the year, they are bad in most aspects of the game. Starting pitching is weak, bullpen kind of untested, the run production is abysmal, the manager incompetent. Bad combination. Sadly, the bullpen may turn out to be one of the best parts of this convoluted roster.

Oh, and I guess you would say the defense is at least average, despite some brain farts on occasion.

They ridded themselves of zero offensive players, zero defensive players, two mediocre relievers, and maybe a stud closer.

Therefore it’s the same 55 win team. I’m seeing a lot of give up and quit it seems, but may also see a win here and there. 81 wins.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑02 Aug 2025 12:38 pm They ridded themselves of zero offensive players, zero defensive players, two mediocre relievers, and maybe a stud closer.

Therefore it’s the same 55 win team. I’m seeing a lot of give up and quit it seems, but may also see a win here and there. 81 wins.

Maton was far from "mediocre" BDog, he was having a terrific season.

Just a guess but they look like team who's spirit is broken, they know they're not a playoff team and will just play out the string.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Aug 2025 13:39 pm

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑02 Aug 2025 12:38 pm They ridded themselves of zero offensive players, zero defensive players, two mediocre relievers, and maybe a stud closer.

Therefore it’s the same 55 win team. I’m seeing a lot of give up and quit it seems, but may also see a win here and there. 81 wins.

Maton was far from "mediocre" BDog, he was having a terrific season.

Just a guess but they look like team who's spirit is broken, they know they're not a playoff team and will just play out the string.

Mediocre reference a return, and maybe mediocre meaning under valued by other teams.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑02 Aug 2025 13:40 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Aug 2025 13:39 pm

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑02 Aug 2025 12:38 pm They ridded themselves of zero offensive players, zero defensive players, two mediocre relievers, and maybe a stud closer.

Therefore it’s the same 55 win team. I’m seeing a lot of give up and quit it seems, but may also see a win here and there. 81 wins.

Maton was far from "mediocre" BDog, he was having a terrific season.

Just a guess but they look like team who's spirit is broken, they know they're not a playoff team and will just play out the string.

Mediocre reference a return, and maybe mediocre meaning under valued by other teams.

Gotcha

On expiring contracts, I think C. Bloom did well getting what he got for the three.