STLtoday.com

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:03 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:52 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:21 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:07 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 08:02 am So. If we select our future GM, will we do it like the Catholic choose a Pope. What’s our criteria.

Now that is a great question. I think the correct answer is who has the most rich friends and connections to drive business and get things done to create the best experience possible for the fans. At the end of the day it's about economics, I think. Who is the person that can get a nice TV deal and get sponsors to buy season tickets, influence the masses to be interested in Cards baseball and make St. Louis a destination city for baseball fans etc.

The Xs and Os of baseball pale in comparison to the what is really important at that level, which is generating interest, persuading the fans and generating revenues along with building a great community of happy people that will have fun being entertained by the product.

All of those problems are solved by winning. The Cardinals didn’t have a hard time generating interest when they were good.

Yes but No, it's the reverse. Winning comes from the structure and mindset along with the support. It's the Yankee doodle dandies Vs. the Tampa Bay Rays. Does it really matter how much the Rays win? The Yanks will still be better at everything in the minds of most. Yes, you can argue it's been because of their winning history but they haven't won a WS since 2009. The Rays literally play in the in the warm up/ minor league park of the Yanks. The future of Cards baseball needs to be the Yankee model far more than the Rays. Isn't that what you want as a fan?

The economics of baseball is ensuring that the Cardinals cannot come close to the Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, etc. in terms of a "model" by which to be consistently successful.

The Cardinals "model" has to be more like Cleveland, Milwaukee, and yes Tampa Bay - only with the Cardinals having the payroll resources to do what they do, but better.

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:22 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:03 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:52 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:21 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:07 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 08:02 am So. If we select our future GM, will we do it like the Catholic choose a Pope. What’s our criteria.

Now that is a great question. I think the correct answer is who has the most rich friends and connections to drive business and get things done to create the best experience possible for the fans. At the end of the day it's about economics, I think. Who is the person that can get a nice TV deal and get sponsors to buy season tickets, influence the masses to be interested in Cards baseball and make St. Louis a destination city for baseball fans etc.

The Xs and Os of baseball pale in comparison to the what is really important at that level, which is generating interest, persuading the fans and generating revenues along with building a great community of happy people that will have fun being entertained by the product.

All of those problems are solved by winning. The Cardinals didn’t have a hard time generating interest when they were good.

Yes but No, it's the reverse. Winning comes from the structure and mindset along with the support. It's the Yankee doodle dandies Vs. the Tampa Bay Rays. Does it really matter how much the Rays win? The Yanks will still be better at everything in the minds of most. Yes, you can argue it's been because of their winning history but they haven't won a WS since 2009. The Rays literally play in the in the warm up/ minor league park of the Yanks. The future of Cards baseball needs to be the Yankee model far more than the Rays. Isn't that what you want as a fan?

The economics of baseball is ensuring that the Cardinals cannot come close to the Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, etc. in terms of a "model" by which to be consistently successful.

The Cardinals "model" has to be more like Cleveland, Milwaukee, and yes Tampa Bay - only with the Cardinals having the payroll resources to do what they do, but better.

Nope, and that mindset is what is driving St. Louis baseball into mediocrity at a fast pace. Sure I'm about savvy and shrewd baseball descions and making great deals but the Cards are a crown jewel of baseball. The fantasy GM of Cards talk in delusional world needs to bring the club up to that level through their skills and smarts not settle for mediocrity and no WS like Cleveland, Milwaukee and Tampa. There are many factors that can contribute to making this happen if you get creative enough and don't limit yourself into a have not mentality. I've seen the Cards compete on their levels both historically and recently. Where are the 3+ million fans willing to spend and be extremely loyal? You are killing them off with that mindset. Change that mindset and you can be just as successful as the Yanks and Dodgers! The fantasy armchair fake wannabe Cards Talk GM needs to be able to do that. Not what you are doing, DISQUALIFIED!

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:52 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:21 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:07 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 08:02 am So. If we select our future GM, will we do it like the Catholic choose a Pope. What’s our criteria.

Now that is a great question. I think the correct answer is who has the most rich friends and connections to drive business and get things done to create the best experience possible for the fans. At the end of the day it's about economics, I think. Who is the person that can get a nice TV deal and get sponsors to buy season tickets, influence the masses to be interested in Cards baseball and make St. Louis a destination city for baseball fans etc.

The Xs and Os of baseball pale in comparison to the what is really important at that level, which is generating interest, persuading the fans and generating revenues along with building a great community of happy people that will have fun being entertained by the product.

All of those problems are solved by winning. The Cardinals didn’t have a hard time generating interest when they were good.

Yes but No, it's the reverse. Winning comes from the structure and mindset along with the support. It's the Yankee doodle dandies Vs. the Tampa Bay Rays. Does it really matter how much the Rays win? The Yanks will still be better at everything in the minds of most. Yes, you can argue it's been because of their winning history but they haven't won a WS since 2009. The Rays literally play in the in the warm up/ minor league park of the Yanks. The future of Cards baseball needs to be the Yankee model far more than the Rays. Isn't that what you want as a fan?

Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:40 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:07 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 08:02 am So. If we select our future GM, will we do it like the Catholic choose a Pope. What’s our criteria.

Now that is a great question. I think the correct answer is who has the most rich friends and connections to drive business and get things done to create the best experience possible for the fans. At the end of the day it's about economics, I think. Who is the person that can get a nice TV deal and get sponsors to buy season tickets, influence the masses to be interested in Cards baseball and make St. Louis a destination city for baseball fans etc.

The Xs and Os of baseball pale in comparison to the what is really important at that level, which is generating interest, persuading the fans and generating revenues along with building a great community of happy people that will have fun being entertained by the product.

We're talking about a GM, not a president of the team. You need both, preferably two different people because the job is too big for one.

No matter who you know and how slick you are, you're not gonna generate much interest if the team isn't any good.

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑13 Jun 2025 11:19 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑13 Jun 2025 09:14 am
The below are whom I consider the most
savvy baseball contributors here.

E. Ecleme

Thread credibility lost.

desertrat23 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:43 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:52 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:21 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:07 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 08:02 am So. If we select our future GM, will we do it like the Catholic choose a Pope. What’s our criteria.

Now that is a great question. I think the correct answer is who has the most rich friends and connections to drive business and get things done to create the best experience possible for the fans. At the end of the day it's about economics, I think. Who is the person that can get a nice TV deal and get sponsors to buy season tickets, influence the masses to be interested in Cards baseball and make St. Louis a destination city for baseball fans etc.

The Xs and Os of baseball pale in comparison to the what is really important at that level, which is generating interest, persuading the fans and generating revenues along with building a great community of happy people that will have fun being entertained by the product.

All of those problems are solved by winning. The Cardinals didn’t have a hard time generating interest when they were good.

Yes but No, it's the reverse. Winning comes from the structure and mindset along with the support. It's the Yankee doodle dandies Vs. the Tampa Bay Rays. Does it really matter how much the Rays win? The Yanks will still be better at everything in the minds of most. Yes, you can argue it's been because of their winning history but they haven't won a WS since 2009. The Rays literally play in the in the warm up/ minor league park of the Yanks. The future of Cards baseball needs to be the Yankee model far more than the Rays. Isn't that what you want as a fan?

OK, but I think you’re making the argument for me. If winning comes from the structure and mindset, the Cardinals don’t have that. Their model has been “do just enough to keep people coming and squeak into a playoff spot.” The Yankees haven’t won a WS since 09 but you can’t ever count them out, because you know they’re at least going to try.

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:58 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:43 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:52 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:21 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:07 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 08:02 am So. If we select our future GM, will we do it like the Catholic choose a Pope. What’s our criteria.

Now that is a great question. I think the correct answer is who has the most rich friends and connections to drive business and get things done to create the best experience possible for the fans. At the end of the day it's about economics, I think. Who is the person that can get a nice TV deal and get sponsors to buy season tickets, influence the masses to be interested in Cards baseball and make St. Louis a destination city for baseball fans etc.

The Xs and Os of baseball pale in comparison to the what is really important at that level, which is generating interest, persuading the fans and generating revenues along with building a great community of happy people that will have fun being entertained by the product.

All of those problems are solved by winning. The Cardinals didn’t have a hard time generating interest when they were good.

Yes but No, it's the reverse. Winning comes from the structure and mindset along with the support. It's the Yankee doodle dandies Vs. the Tampa Bay Rays. Does it really matter how much the Rays win? The Yanks will still be better at everything in the minds of most. Yes, you can argue it's been because of their winning history but they haven't won a WS since 2009. The Rays literally play in the in the warm up/ minor league park of the Yanks. The future of Cards baseball needs to be the Yankee model far more than the Rays. Isn't that what you want as a fan?

OK, but I think you’re making the argument for me. If winning comes from the structure and mindset, the Cardinals don’t have that. Their model has been “do just enough to keep people coming and squeak into a playoff spot.” The Yankees haven’t won a WS since 09 but you can’t ever count them out, because you know they’re at least going to try.

Huh? The Cardinals model is very similar to the doodle dandy model on a little different scale. Build teams that that are competitive trying to go deep into the playoffs and provide the best experience for the fans as possible. Not sure if that model has changed in St. Louis recently but that's the model I signed up for and support.

When I was a young boy, my father took me to the city to see a marching band. He said "one day defeat them, all the non believers, the plans they have made" WE'LL CARRY ON, WE'LL CARRY ON!

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:32 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:22 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:03 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:52 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:21 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:07 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 08:02 am So. If we select our future GM, will we do it like the Catholic choose a Pope. What’s our criteria.

Now that is a great question. I think the correct answer is who has the most rich friends and connections to drive business and get things done to create the best experience possible for the fans. At the end of the day it's about economics, I think. Who is the person that can get a nice TV deal and get sponsors to buy season tickets, influence the masses to be interested in Cards baseball and make St. Louis a destination city for baseball fans etc.

The Xs and Os of baseball pale in comparison to the what is really important at that level, which is generating interest, persuading the fans and generating revenues along with building a great community of happy people that will have fun being entertained by the product.

All of those problems are solved by winning. The Cardinals didn’t have a hard time generating interest when they were good.

Yes but No, it's the reverse. Winning comes from the structure and mindset along with the support. It's the Yankee doodle dandies Vs. the Tampa Bay Rays. Does it really matter how much the Rays win? The Yanks will still be better at everything in the minds of most. Yes, you can argue it's been because of their winning history but they haven't won a WS since 2009. The Rays literally play in the in the warm up/ minor league park of the Yanks. The future of Cards baseball needs to be the Yankee model far more than the Rays. Isn't that what you want as a fan?

The economics of baseball is ensuring that the Cardinals cannot come close to the Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, etc. in terms of a "model" by which to be consistently successful.

The Cardinals "model" has to be more like Cleveland, Milwaukee, and yes Tampa Bay - only with the Cardinals having the payroll resources to do what they do, but better.

Nope, and that mindset is what is driving St. Louis baseball into mediocrity at a fast pace. Sure I'm about savvy and shrewd baseball descions and making great deals but the Cards are a crown jewel of baseball. The fantasy GM of Cards talk in delusional world needs to bring the club up to that level through their skills and smarts not settle for mediocrity and no WS like Cleveland, Milwaukee and Tampa. There are many factors that can contribute to making this happen if you get creative enough and don't limit yourself into a have not mentality. I've seen the Cards compete on their levels both historically and recently. Where are the 3+ million fans willing to spend and be extremely loyal? You are killing them off with that mindset. Change that mindset and you can be just as successful as the Yanks and Dodgers! The fantasy armchair fake wannabe Cards Talk GM needs to be able to do that. Not what you are doing, DISQUALIFIED!

As I clearly said - they need to do it like Cleveland, Milwaukee, Tampa Bay, etc. - BUT BETTER, because they can spend another $50+ million on the ML payroll than those teams.

You can only acquire talent a few ways - draft it, sign it internationally, trade for it (but you have to have prospects/players other teams want in return), or pay for it. The Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, etc. "model" can be based on just paying for it much moreso than than Cardinals, Guardians, Brewers, Rays, etc.

The Cardinals - like the Guardians, Brewers, Rays, etc. - have to put more of a priority on developing draft picks and international signings, because that is how they are going get the cost-controlled talent (or where they are going to get the prospects they need to trade for talent) they have to have to compete with the Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, etc.

The Cardinals need to be one of the best organizations at developing their own talent so that they can then use their payroll resources to selectively add to what they have developed internally better than the Guardians, Brewers, Rays, etc. can.

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 11:15 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:32 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:22 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:03 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:52 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:21 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:07 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 08:02 am So. If we select our future GM, will we do it like the Catholic choose a Pope. What’s our criteria.

Now that is a great question. I think the correct answer is who has the most rich friends and connections to drive business and get things done to create the best experience possible for the fans. At the end of the day it's about economics, I think. Who is the person that can get a nice TV deal and get sponsors to buy season tickets, influence the masses to be interested in Cards baseball and make St. Louis a destination city for baseball fans etc.

The Xs and Os of baseball pale in comparison to the what is really important at that level, which is generating interest, persuading the fans and generating revenues along with building a great community of happy people that will have fun being entertained by the product.

All of those problems are solved by winning. The Cardinals didn’t have a hard time generating interest when they were good.

Yes but No, it's the reverse. Winning comes from the structure and mindset along with the support. It's the Yankee doodle dandies Vs. the Tampa Bay Rays. Does it really matter how much the Rays win? The Yanks will still be better at everything in the minds of most. Yes, you can argue it's been because of their winning history but they haven't won a WS since 2009. The Rays literally play in the in the warm up/ minor league park of the Yanks. The future of Cards baseball needs to be the Yankee model far more than the Rays. Isn't that what you want as a fan?

The economics of baseball is ensuring that the Cardinals cannot come close to the Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, etc. in terms of a "model" by which to be consistently successful.

The Cardinals "model" has to be more like Cleveland, Milwaukee, and yes Tampa Bay - only with the Cardinals having the payroll resources to do what they do, but better.

Nope, and that mindset is what is driving St. Louis baseball into mediocrity at a fast pace. Sure I'm about savvy and shrewd baseball descions and making great deals but the Cards are a crown jewel of baseball. The fantasy GM of Cards talk in delusional world needs to bring the club up to that level through their skills and smarts not settle for mediocrity and no WS like Cleveland, Milwaukee and Tampa. There are many factors that can contribute to making this happen if you get creative enough and don't limit yourself into a have not mentality. I've seen the Cards compete on their levels both historically and recently. Where are the 3+ million fans willing to spend and be extremely loyal? You are killing them off with that mindset. Change that mindset and you can be just as successful as the Yanks and Dodgers! The fantasy armchair fake wannabe Cards Talk GM needs to be able to do that. Not what you are doing, DISQUALIFIED!

As I clearly said - they need to do it like Cleveland, Milwaukee, Tampa Bay, etc. - BUT BETTER, because they can spend another $50+ million on the ML payroll than those teams.

You can only acquire talent a few ways - draft it, sign it internationally, trade for it (but you have to have prospects/players other teams want in return), or pay for it. The Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, etc. "model" can be based on just paying for it much moreso than than Cardinals, Guardians, Brewers, Rays, etc.

The Cardinals - like the Guardians, Brewers, Rays, etc. - have to put more of a priority on developing draft picks and international signings, because that is how they are going get the cost-controlled talent (or where they are going to get the prospects they need to trade for talent) they have to have to compete with the Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, etc.

The Cardinals need to be one of the best organizations at developing their own talent so that they can then use their payroll resources to selectively add to what they have developed internally better than the Guardians, Brewers, Rays, etc. can.

Sure, nobody is debating making savvy and shrewd baseball moves and developing prospects along with development. Do you not think that is part of the Dodgers, Yanks, Mets etc beliefs and philosophy also? They're good at that also. When that is the sole belief and corner stone of it, you will not get to where you want consistently like you want. AND YES, THAT IS AND HAS BEEN PART OF THE CARDS PHILOSOPHY AND MODEL! Their plan and beliefs (as I understand it) has been to do that then add what pieces they need to bring them to the top. We might be posting the same thing, but you are spinning it towards the Guardians, Brewers and Rays who have weaker support and resources where I want some crown jewel stuff. That junk doesn't sell, and that's what this is about.

Please do tell your plan that fixes this ship that hasn't been tried with that structure which is killing the club?

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑14 Jun 2025 17:40 pm

desertrat23 wrote: ↑14 Jun 2025 17:01 pm

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑14 Jun 2025 10:32 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑14 Jun 2025 10:23 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑14 Jun 2025 09:48 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑14 Jun 2025 08:54 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑14 Jun 2025 08:05 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑13 Jun 2025 09:14 am I wish there was a way to conduct a poll.
The below are whom I consider the most
savvy baseball contributors here.
If I missed you, sorry.
I might have missed a few that deserve to be
on this list.

I have the following contributors:

A. Melville
B. Rockondkouie
C. Mattmitch
D. An Old Friend
E. Ecleme
F. Futuregm
G. Craviduce

I am torn between Melville
and Rockondlouie.
I'd have to go with a two headed
monster of the two.
Be a (drat) good team

I would vote for Cranny.

The person who axlctylly loves Cardinals baseball, is loyal to the team and realistic. Really the only person who will consistently stand up for the players, organization and management. Just about everyone else sucks, completely unknowledgeable about the game and don't really support the team.

Is that really a recipe for being able to make the hard decisions necessary to keep turning the roster over to remain competitive?

You probably really don't want your GM to be a "fan" as much as you want them to be an objective decision maker.

You make a fair point but an extremely vague one. Yes, it is the exact recipe and really the only thing that is important at the end of the day. What the "fans" think and want is what keeps the whole thing going. Only a person who is committed to striving in bringing that will succeed. The GM or any other executive must work towards selling that and believing in it. Therefore, the people who make those "hard decisions" are the ones who are most passionate about them on the side of the "fans". The biggest fans who love the model and organization most should make the decisions.

I would say this - winning takes care of everything. Sometimes what the "fans" think they want will be contrary to giving the team the best opportunity to win. That's why a GM needs to be more dispassionate and more businesslike in their decision making.

Okay , I really have no idea what the hell you are posting about and why you shouldn't be the the GM in my opinion. What is this more "business like" model you post about? The Cards put a good product out constantly, tons of winning seasons, lots of great players, the best facilities anywhere in the league, affordable prices, good members of the community, lots of playoff appearances, WS championships, a focus on their history and traditions etc etc etc.

If you "best fans in baseball" want the Dodgers experience, show up 50k strong spending the big bucks and bringing the Cranny type loyalty.

1. Define “good product.”
2. See #1. A winning season is not enough.
3. Name a great player on this roster. Not one who was great, or one who might be someday, but now.
4. Clearly you’ve never been to Pittsburgh or San Diego or San Francisco, to name just three.
5. A better team is more important than cheap tickets.
6. Who cares?
7. 1-9 in last 10 playoff games. No one remembers who “made an appearance.”
8. 15 years and counting.
9. Stop living in the past.

Anything else?

I did define a good product, a team that constantly wins, has lots of great players, the best facilities anywhere etc.

The Cardinals strive for more than just winning seasons, they try to go deep into the playoffs and win the WS. That has been their model for decades. A good model that has created a good product.

The Cardinals have always had hall of famers on their rosters, Arenado is probably going to the hall of fame. Sonny Grey is probably an all star and a Cy Young caliber pitcher, Helsley is in his prime as a shutdown relief ace, Donovan is probably going to be an all star, Contreas has been a champ and all star who plays well, lots of young exciting players that play great at different times.

I've been to every MLB stadium, half the ones in Japan, seen MLB games all over the world and in many ballparks closed now. St. Louis is as big league as it gets.

Depends on who you ask, some people really care about prices and it is important to them, Cards do have good teams.

I care and so do lots of others.

I remember who makes playoff appearances and value teams that get to the playoffs consistently, that's a good product and a team committed to winning baseball. Yup, you win some you lose some. Quit cherry picking lame stats.

A whole 15 years spoiled brat? How ever do you survive? St. Louis also has the second most WS championships in the history of the game. Some clubs and fans have never won any.

Who is living in the past? Honoring your past and traditions is something we can do in the present, lots of fans enjoy seeing old timers and remembering different times in their lives, Cardinals are good at reminding people, quit making that out like a bad thing.

There is a lot else I would like to post, and can defend just about anything the team does. That's kind of my whole point as to what I look for in the character of a good GM. Kind of the only thing that is important. The GM can't be a person who consistently bashes on their own team and doesn't support them. It's why you and just about everyone else sucks in my opinion and disqualified from being fantasy GM!

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 11:36 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 11:15 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:32 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:22 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:03 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:52 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:21 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:07 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 08:02 am So. If we select our future GM, will we do it like the Catholic choose a Pope. What’s our criteria.

Now that is a great question. I think the correct answer is who has the most rich friends and connections to drive business and get things done to create the best experience possible for the fans. At the end of the day it's about economics, I think. Who is the person that can get a nice TV deal and get sponsors to buy season tickets, influence the masses to be interested in Cards baseball and make St. Louis a destination city for baseball fans etc.

The Xs and Os of baseball pale in comparison to the what is really important at that level, which is generating interest, persuading the fans and generating revenues along with building a great community of happy people that will have fun being entertained by the product.

All of those problems are solved by winning. The Cardinals didn’t have a hard time generating interest when they were good.

Yes but No, it's the reverse. Winning comes from the structure and mindset along with the support. It's the Yankee doodle dandies Vs. the Tampa Bay Rays. Does it really matter how much the Rays win? The Yanks will still be better at everything in the minds of most. Yes, you can argue it's been because of their winning history but they haven't won a WS since 2009. The Rays literally play in the in the warm up/ minor league park of the Yanks. The future of Cards baseball needs to be the Yankee model far more than the Rays. Isn't that what you want as a fan?

The economics of baseball is ensuring that the Cardinals cannot come close to the Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, etc. in terms of a "model" by which to be consistently successful.

The Cardinals "model" has to be more like Cleveland, Milwaukee, and yes Tampa Bay - only with the Cardinals having the payroll resources to do what they do, but better.

Nope, and that mindset is what is driving St. Louis baseball into mediocrity at a fast pace. Sure I'm about savvy and shrewd baseball descions and making great deals but the Cards are a crown jewel of baseball. The fantasy GM of Cards talk in delusional world needs to bring the club up to that level through their skills and smarts not settle for mediocrity and no WS like Cleveland, Milwaukee and Tampa. There are many factors that can contribute to making this happen if you get creative enough and don't limit yourself into a have not mentality. I've seen the Cards compete on their levels both historically and recently. Where are the 3+ million fans willing to spend and be extremely loyal? You are killing them off with that mindset. Change that mindset and you can be just as successful as the Yanks and Dodgers! The fantasy armchair fake wannabe Cards Talk GM needs to be able to do that. Not what you are doing, DISQUALIFIED!

As I clearly said - they need to do it like Cleveland, Milwaukee, Tampa Bay, etc. - BUT BETTER, because they can spend another $50+ million on the ML payroll than those teams.

You can only acquire talent a few ways - draft it, sign it internationally, trade for it (but you have to have prospects/players other teams want in return), or pay for it. The Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, etc. "model" can be based on just paying for it much moreso than than Cardinals, Guardians, Brewers, Rays, etc.

The Cardinals - like the Guardians, Brewers, Rays, etc. - have to put more of a priority on developing draft picks and international signings, because that is how they are going get the cost-controlled talent (or where they are going to get the prospects they need to trade for talent) they have to have to compete with the Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, etc.

The Cardinals need to be one of the best organizations at developing their own talent so that they can then use their payroll resources to selectively add to what they have developed internally better than the Guardians, Brewers, Rays, etc. can.

Sure, nobody is debating making savvy and shrewd baseball moves and developing prospects along with development. Do you not think that is part of the Dodgers, Yanks, Mets etc beliefs and philosophy also? They're good at that also. When that is the sole belief and corner stone of it, you will not get to where you want consistently like you want. AND YES, THAT IS AND HAS BEEN PART OF THE CARDS PHILOSOPHY AND MODEL! Their plan and beliefs (as I understand it) has been to do that then add what pieces they need to bring them to the top. We might be posting the same thing, but you are spinning it towards the Guardians, Brewers and Rays who have weaker support and resources where I want some crown jewel stuff. That junk doesn't sell, and that's what this is about.

Please do tell your plan that fixes this ship that hasn't been tried with that structure which is killing the club?

The difference is - when you are a team with more limited resources than the Yankees, Dodgers, Mets, Phillies, etc. - you have to get the foundation right first, and the foundation if you are the Cardinals, Guardians, Brewers, Rays, etc. is having enough young, developed, cost controlled talent, not the "crown jewel stuff." You only add expensive pieces from outside the organization AFTER you have your foundation of young players to build around. Adding expensive pieces - like a Gray, Arenado, Contreras, etc. - without first having the foundation right isn't going to get them anywhere because the Dodgers, Yankees, Phillies, Mets, etc. will always have MORE expensive pieces and much MORE talent than the Cardinals can compete with.

The plan they are hopefully on is the right plan - do everything necessary to re-establish a lot of talent on the ML roster that is under age 27/28, then take stock of what holes remain, and fill those selectively with the payroll muscle you have to do it with.

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 11:56 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 11:36 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 11:15 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:32 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:22 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:03 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:52 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:21 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:07 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 08:02 am So. If we select our future GM, will we do it like the Catholic choose a Pope. What’s our criteria.

Now that is a great question. I think the correct answer is who has the most rich friends and connections to drive business and get things done to create the best experience possible for the fans. At the end of the day it's about economics, I think. Who is the person that can get a nice TV deal and get sponsors to buy season tickets, influence the masses to be interested in Cards baseball and make St. Louis a destination city for baseball fans etc.

The Xs and Os of baseball pale in comparison to the what is really important at that level, which is generating interest, persuading the fans and generating revenues along with building a great community of happy people that will have fun being entertained by the product.

All of those problems are solved by winning. The Cardinals didn’t have a hard time generating interest when they were good.

Yes but No, it's the reverse. Winning comes from the structure and mindset along with the support. It's the Yankee doodle dandies Vs. the Tampa Bay Rays. Does it really matter how much the Rays win? The Yanks will still be better at everything in the minds of most. Yes, you can argue it's been because of their winning history but they haven't won a WS since 2009. The Rays literally play in the in the warm up/ minor league park of the Yanks. The future of Cards baseball needs to be the Yankee model far more than the Rays. Isn't that what you want as a fan?

The economics of baseball is ensuring that the Cardinals cannot come close to the Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, etc. in terms of a "model" by which to be consistently successful.

The Cardinals "model" has to be more like Cleveland, Milwaukee, and yes Tampa Bay - only with the Cardinals having the payroll resources to do what they do, but better.

Nope, and that mindset is what is driving St. Louis baseball into mediocrity at a fast pace. Sure I'm about savvy and shrewd baseball descions and making great deals but the Cards are a crown jewel of baseball. The fantasy GM of Cards talk in delusional world needs to bring the club up to that level through their skills and smarts not settle for mediocrity and no WS like Cleveland, Milwaukee and Tampa. There are many factors that can contribute to making this happen if you get creative enough and don't limit yourself into a have not mentality. I've seen the Cards compete on their levels both historically and recently. Where are the 3+ million fans willing to spend and be extremely loyal? You are killing them off with that mindset. Change that mindset and you can be just as successful as the Yanks and Dodgers! The fantasy armchair fake wannabe Cards Talk GM needs to be able to do that. Not what you are doing, DISQUALIFIED!

As I clearly said - they need to do it like Cleveland, Milwaukee, Tampa Bay, etc. - BUT BETTER, because they can spend another $50+ million on the ML payroll than those teams.

You can only acquire talent a few ways - draft it, sign it internationally, trade for it (but you have to have prospects/players other teams want in return), or pay for it. The Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, etc. "model" can be based on just paying for it much moreso than than Cardinals, Guardians, Brewers, Rays, etc.

The Cardinals - like the Guardians, Brewers, Rays, etc. - have to put more of a priority on developing draft picks and international signings, because that is how they are going get the cost-controlled talent (or where they are going to get the prospects they need to trade for talent) they have to have to compete with the Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, etc.

The Cardinals need to be one of the best organizations at developing their own talent so that they can then use their payroll resources to selectively add to what they have developed internally better than the Guardians, Brewers, Rays, etc. can.

Sure, nobody is debating making savvy and shrewd baseball moves and developing prospects along with development. Do you not think that is part of the Dodgers, Yanks, Mets etc beliefs and philosophy also? They're good at that also. When that is the sole belief and corner stone of it, you will not get to where you want consistently like you want. AND YES, THAT IS AND HAS BEEN PART OF THE CARDS PHILOSOPHY AND MODEL! Their plan and beliefs (as I understand it) has been to do that then add what pieces they need to bring them to the top. We might be posting the same thing, but you are spinning it towards the Guardians, Brewers and Rays who have weaker support and resources where I want some crown jewel stuff. That junk doesn't sell, and that's what this is about.

Please do tell your plan that fixes this ship that hasn't been tried with that structure which is killing the club?

The difference is - when you are a team with more limited resources than the Yankees, Dodgers, Mets, Phillies, etc. - you have to get the foundation right first, and the foundation if you are the Cardinals, Guardians, Brewers, Rays, etc. is having enough young, developed, cost controlled talent, not the "crown jewel stuff." You only add expensive pieces from outside the organization AFTER you have your foundation of young players to build around. Adding expensive pieces - like a Gray, Arenado, Contreras, etc. - without first having the foundation right isn't going to get them anywhere because the Dodgers, Yankees, Phillies, Mets, etc. will always have MORE expensive pieces and much MORE talent than the Cardinals can compete with.

The plan they are hopefully on is the right plan - do everything necessary to re-establish a lot of talent on the ML roster that is under age 27/28, then take stock of what holes remain, and fill those selectively with the payroll muscle you have to do it with.

You're killing me Smalls! THAT IS THE CARDS MODEL! Lock, stock and barrel! It is what they have strived for, for decades and what Mr. Mo and his team try to accomplish and have accomplished!

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:31 am Note: If I were GM I'd fire most of you.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 11:36 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 11:15 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:32 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:22 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 10:03 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:52 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:21 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 09:07 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2025 08:02 am So. If we select our future GM, will we do it like the Catholic choose a Pope. What’s our criteria.

Now that is a great question. I think the correct answer is who has the most rich friends and connections to drive business and get things done to create the best experience possible for the fans. At the end of the day it's about economics, I think. Who is the person that can get a nice TV deal and get sponsors to buy season tickets, influence the masses to be interested in Cards baseball and make St. Louis a destination city for baseball fans etc.

The Xs and Os of baseball pale in comparison to the what is really important at that level, which is generating interest, persuading the fans and generating revenues along with building a great community of happy people that will have fun being entertained by the product.

All of those problems are solved by winning. The Cardinals didn’t have a hard time generating interest when they were good.

Yes but No, it's the reverse. Winning comes from the structure and mindset along with the support. It's the Yankee doodle dandies Vs. the Tampa Bay Rays. Does it really matter how much the Rays win? The Yanks will still be better at everything in the minds of most. Yes, you can argue it's been because of their winning history but they haven't won a WS since 2009. The Rays literally play in the in the warm up/ minor league park of the Yanks. The future of Cards baseball needs to be the Yankee model far more than the Rays. Isn't that what you want as a fan?

The economics of baseball is ensuring that the Cardinals cannot come close to the Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, etc. in terms of a "model" by which to be consistently successful.

The Cardinals "model" has to be more like Cleveland, Milwaukee, and yes Tampa Bay - only with the Cardinals having the payroll resources to do what they do, but better.

Nope, and that mindset is what is driving St. Louis baseball into mediocrity at a fast pace. Sure I'm about savvy and shrewd baseball descions and making great deals but the Cards are a crown jewel of baseball. The fantasy GM of Cards talk in delusional world needs to bring the club up to that level through their skills and smarts not settle for mediocrity and no WS like Cleveland, Milwaukee and Tampa. There are many factors that can contribute to making this happen if you get creative enough and don't limit yourself into a have not mentality. I've seen the Cards compete on their levels both historically and recently. Where are the 3+ million fans willing to spend and be extremely loyal? You are killing them off with that mindset. Change that mindset and you can be just as successful as the Yanks and Dodgers! The fantasy armchair fake wannabe Cards Talk GM needs to be able to do that. Not what you are doing, DISQUALIFIED!

As I clearly said - they need to do it like Cleveland, Milwaukee, Tampa Bay, etc. - BUT BETTER, because they can spend another $50+ million on the ML payroll than those teams.

You can only acquire talent a few ways - draft it, sign it internationally, trade for it (but you have to have prospects/players other teams want in return), or pay for it. The Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, etc. "model" can be based on just paying for it much moreso than than Cardinals, Guardians, Brewers, Rays, etc.

The Cardinals - like the Guardians, Brewers, Rays, etc. - have to put more of a priority on developing draft picks and international signings, because that is how they are going get the cost-controlled talent (or where they are going to get the prospects they need to trade for talent) they have to have to compete with the Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, etc.

The Cardinals need to be one of the best organizations at developing their own talent so that they can then use their payroll resources to selectively add to what they have developed internally better than the Guardians, Brewers, Rays, etc. can.

Sure, nobody is debating making savvy and shrewd baseball moves and developing prospects along with development. Do you not think that is part of the Dodgers, Yanks, Mets etc beliefs and philosophy also? They're good at that also. When that is the sole belief and corner stone of it, you will not get to where you want consistently like you want. AND YES, THAT IS AND HAS BEEN PART OF THE CARDS PHILOSOPHY AND MODEL! Their plan and beliefs (as I understand it) has been to do that then add what pieces they need to bring them to the top. We might be posting the same thing, but you are spinning it towards the Guardians, Brewers and Rays who have weaker support and resources where I want some crown jewel stuff. That junk doesn't sell, and that's what this is about.

Please do tell your plan that fixes this ship that hasn't been tried with that structure which is killing the club?

The difference is - when you are a team with more limited resources than the Yankees, Dodgers, Mets, Phillies, etc. - you have to get the foundation right first, and the foundation if you are the Cardinals, Guardians, Brewers, Rays, etc. is having enough young, developed, cost controlled talent, not the "crown jewel stuff." You only add expensive pieces from outside the organization AFTER you have your foundation of young players to build around. Adding expensive pieces - like a Gray, Arenado, Contreras, etc. - without first having the foundation right isn't going to get them anywhere because the Dodgers, Yankees, Phillies, Mets, etc. will always have MORE expensive pieces and much MORE talent than the Cardinals can compete with.

The plan they are hopefully on is the right plan - do everything necessary to re-establish a lot of talent on the ML roster that is under age 27/28, then take stock of what holes remain, and fill those selectively with the payroll muscle you have to do it with.

Having "crown jewel stuff" just to have it to please the fans, when it doesn't get you anywhere in terms of winning NL pennants and/or WS, is a dead end.