STLtoday.com

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:01 pm Has anyone in Boston looked at Gray's history in and against the AL East?

Will be offset by the fact that he doesn't have to pitch in the Midwest heat.

Sonny is a 5 inning pitcher at best.

His fastball gets hammered at a 558 SLG pct.

His slider and curve are good but without the heater, the results will plummet fast.

It would a good trade to free up $15 million

renostl wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 14:05 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:11 pm

renostl wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:59 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:53 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:31 pm

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 10:34 am Bet. High level third base prospect or left fielder. Any takers.

Nope, a 26 yo bad pitcher, an injury risk who hasn't surpassed A ball, and a PTBNL.

Fitts in 10 MLB starts went less than 5 innings 6 times and only pitched on 4 days rest once. Clarke will likely be a one inning reliever. Potential setup man or closer. If he uses the money saved to sign a respectable MLB player then it's about as good as could be expected.

Ok,
But be complete, how many innings will SG pitch for $40 million and does
that $20 million buy anything or go into the pockets of BD?

I don't know but I do know this is a dump and rebuild. I'm guessing Bloom will bring in a couple pitchers but who knows? Another question is at what level Jr is still active or is this all III?

and neither does any of us.
I posted a while back that the issue some of the issue with Sonny going into 2026 is that
he wasn't more than 1 pitcher for the $40 million, $35 for 2026. They now have 1 in Fitts who
has to emerge to what he was in his Sept call up in 2024, a prospect who is a #5 level prospect
and the funds to add. However that turns out. I'll say 2026 budget was X. That it is still X.

I also usually like to look at a trade in reverse. IF the Cards traded their #5 Mathews, a fringe SP say Pallante
plus change in the cash or PTBNL would I be happy with SG who slots in a #2 or #3 in that rotation?
Objectively, I would think 2 things. Aim higher and what was the rush about this deal? a lot of pitching
out there and this 36 y/o is costing us $21 million plus the players.

Fitts would be a major surprise to the Red Sox if he emerges as an every 5th day pitcher in 2026. He only worked on 4 days rest once in 2025 and failed to get to the 5th inning in 6 of 10 starts. He is likely a spot starter/middle relief.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 14:23 pm

renostl wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 14:05 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:11 pm

renostl wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:59 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:53 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:31 pm

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 10:34 am Bet. High level third base prospect or left fielder. Any takers.

Nope, a 26 yo bad pitcher, an injury risk who hasn't surpassed A ball, and a PTBNL.

Fitts in 10 MLB starts went less than 5 innings 6 times and only pitched on 4 days rest once. Clarke will likely be a one inning reliever. Potential setup man or closer. If he uses the money saved to sign a respectable MLB player then it's about as good as could be expected.

Ok,
But be complete, how many innings will SG pitch for $40 million and does
that $20 million buy anything or go into the pockets of BD?

I don't know but I do know this is a dump and rebuild. I'm guessing Bloom will bring in a couple pitchers but who knows? Another question is at what level Jr is still active or is this all III?

and neither does any of us.
I posted a while back that the issue some of the issue with Sonny going into 2026 is that
he wasn't more than 1 pitcher for the $40 million, $35 for 2026. They now have 1 in Fitts who
has to emerge to what he was in his Sept call up in 2024, a prospect who is a #5 level prospect
and the funds to add. However that turns out. I'll say 2026 budget was X. That it is still X.

I also usually like to look at a trade in reverse. IF the Cards traded their #5 Mathews, a fringe SP say Pallante
plus change in the cash or PTBNL would I be happy with SG who slots in a #2 or #3 in that rotation?
Objectively, I would think 2 things. Aim higher and what was the rush about this deal? a lot of pitching
out there and this 36 y/o is costing us $21 million plus the players.

Fitts would be a major surprise to the Red Sox if he emerges as an every 5th day pitcher in 2026. He only worked on 4 days rest once in 2025 and failed to get to the 5th inning in 6 of 10 starts. He is likely a spot starter/middle relief.

Health is everything. Prior to 2025 he was taking on 150 IP.
His Sept. call up in 2024 also went well.
None of it matters much to what 2026 will be.
Usually 7 or 8 guys are needed to get through a season.

Melville wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:30 pm

82birds wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 10:59 am

brock118 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 10:36 am So much for geographic location for Sonny I guess.

you beat me to it

A one year geographical commitment is very different than a 3 year commitment on Gray's part.

true enough

renostl wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 15:30 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 14:23 pm

renostl wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 14:05 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:11 pm

renostl wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:59 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:53 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:31 pm

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 10:34 am Bet. High level third base prospect or left fielder. Any takers.

Nope, a 26 yo bad pitcher, an injury risk who hasn't surpassed A ball, and a PTBNL.

Fitts in 10 MLB starts went less than 5 innings 6 times and only pitched on 4 days rest once. Clarke will likely be a one inning reliever. Potential setup man or closer. If he uses the money saved to sign a respectable MLB player then it's about as good as could be expected.

Ok,
But be complete, how many innings will SG pitch for $40 million and does
that $20 million buy anything or go into the pockets of BD?

I don't know but I do know this is a dump and rebuild. I'm guessing Bloom will bring in a couple pitchers but who knows? Another question is at what level Jr is still active or is this all III?

and neither does any of us.
I posted a while back that the issue some of the issue with Sonny going into 2026 is that
he wasn't more than 1 pitcher for the $40 million, $35 for 2026. They now have 1 in Fitts who
has to emerge to what he was in his Sept call up in 2024, a prospect who is a #5 level prospect
and the funds to add. However that turns out. I'll say 2026 budget was X. That it is still X.

I also usually like to look at a trade in reverse. IF the Cards traded their #5 Mathews, a fringe SP say Pallante
plus change in the cash or PTBNL would I be happy with SG who slots in a #2 or #3 in that rotation?
Objectively, I would think 2 things. Aim higher and what was the rush about this deal? a lot of pitching
out there and this 36 y/o is costing us $21 million plus the players.

Fitts would be a major surprise to the Red Sox if he emerges as an every 5th day pitcher in 2026. He only worked on 4 days rest once in 2025 and failed to get to the 5th inning in 6 of 10 starts. He is likely a spot starter/middle relief.

Health is everything. Prior to 2025 he was taking on 150 IP.
His Sept. call up in 2024 also went well.
None of it matters much to what 2026 will be.
Usually 7 or 8 guys are needed to get through a season.

He's depth.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 15:59 pm

renostl wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 15:30 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 14:23 pm

renostl wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 14:05 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:11 pm

renostl wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:59 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:53 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:31 pm

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 10:34 am Bet. High level third base prospect or left fielder. Any takers.

Nope, a 26 yo bad pitcher, an injury risk who hasn't surpassed A ball, and a PTBNL.

Fitts in 10 MLB starts went less than 5 innings 6 times and only pitched on 4 days rest once. Clarke will likely be a one inning reliever. Potential setup man or closer. If he uses the money saved to sign a respectable MLB player then it's about as good as could be expected.

Ok,
But be complete, how many innings will SG pitch for $40 million and does
that $20 million buy anything or go into the pockets of BD?

I don't know but I do know this is a dump and rebuild. I'm guessing Bloom will bring in a couple pitchers but who knows? Another question is at what level Jr is still active or is this all III?

and neither does any of us.
I posted a while back that the issue some of the issue with Sonny going into 2026 is that
he wasn't more than 1 pitcher for the $40 million, $35 for 2026. They now have 1 in Fitts who
has to emerge to what he was in his Sept call up in 2024, a prospect who is a #5 level prospect
and the funds to add. However that turns out. I'll say 2026 budget was X. That it is still X.

I also usually like to look at a trade in reverse. IF the Cards traded their #5 Mathews, a fringe SP say Pallante
plus change in the cash or PTBNL would I be happy with SG who slots in a #2 or #3 in that rotation?
Objectively, I would think 2 things. Aim higher and what was the rush about this deal? a lot of pitching
out there and this 36 y/o is costing us $21 million plus the players.

Fitts would be a major surprise to the Red Sox if he emerges as an every 5th day pitcher in 2026. He only worked on 4 days rest once in 2025 and failed to get to the 5th inning in 6 of 10 starts. He is likely a spot starter/middle relief.

Health is everything. Prior to 2025 he was taking on 150 IP.
His Sept. call up in 2024 also went well.
None of it matters much to what 2026 will be.
Usually 7 or 8 guys are needed to get through a season.

He's depth.

Maybe,
They needed some.

renostl wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 16:17 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 15:59 pm

renostl wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 15:30 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 14:23 pm

renostl wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 14:05 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:11 pm

renostl wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:59 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:53 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:31 pm

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 10:34 am Bet. High level third base prospect or left fielder. Any takers.

Nope, a 26 yo bad pitcher, an injury risk who hasn't surpassed A ball, and a PTBNL.

Fitts in 10 MLB starts went less than 5 innings 6 times and only pitched on 4 days rest once. Clarke will likely be a one inning reliever. Potential setup man or closer. If he uses the money saved to sign a respectable MLB player then it's about as good as could be expected.

Ok,
But be complete, how many innings will SG pitch for $40 million and does
that $20 million buy anything or go into the pockets of BD?

I don't know but I do know this is a dump and rebuild. I'm guessing Bloom will bring in a couple pitchers but who knows? Another question is at what level Jr is still active or is this all III?

and neither does any of us.
I posted a while back that the issue some of the issue with Sonny going into 2026 is that
he wasn't more than 1 pitcher for the $40 million, $35 for 2026. They now have 1 in Fitts who
has to emerge to what he was in his Sept call up in 2024, a prospect who is a #5 level prospect
and the funds to add. However that turns out. I'll say 2026 budget was X. That it is still X.

I also usually like to look at a trade in reverse. IF the Cards traded their #5 Mathews, a fringe SP say Pallante
plus change in the cash or PTBNL would I be happy with SG who slots in a #2 or #3 in that rotation?
Objectively, I would think 2 things. Aim higher and what was the rush about this deal? a lot of pitching
out there and this 36 y/o is costing us $21 million plus the players.

Fitts would be a major surprise to the Red Sox if he emerges as an every 5th day pitcher in 2026. He only worked on 4 days rest once in 2025 and failed to get to the 5th inning in 6 of 10 starts. He is likely a spot starter/middle relief.

Health is everything. Prior to 2025 he was taking on 150 IP.
His Sept. call up in 2024 also went well.
None of it matters much to what 2026 will be.
Usually 7 or 8 guys are needed to get through a season.

He's depth.

Maybe,
They needed some.

True.

hmoss859 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 14:11 pm Sonny is a 5 inning pitcher at best.

His fastball gets hammered at a 558 SLG pct.

His slider and curve are good but without the heater, the results will plummet fast.

It would a good trade to free up $15 million

STL threw in a "Fittsful of dollars" in order to save 20M and acquire a couple of prospects.
It does make one wonder how much more return might have been possible for "a few dollars more".
I would have preferred keeping Sonny through July of next year to give STL more of a chance to compete in 2026, but since we don't know how he would have performed next season nor know what else may "bloom" this off-season, I will concede it remains a "Gray area" for now.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 10:48 am

imyourhuckleberry wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 10:45 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 10:39 am

brock118 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 10:36 am So much for geographic location for Sonny I guess.

Yes. Between hometown discounts and geographical locations, hard to distinguish which of the two is a greater myth.

Money is the only thing that isn't a myth.

Money. Give it back. Keep your hands off my stack.

“Whether you’re rich or poor, it’s good to have money.”
~Wacky Plaques, early sixties

Melville wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 20:27 pm

hmoss859 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 14:11 pm Sonny is a 5 inning pitcher at best.

His fastball gets hammered at a 558 SLG pct.

His slider and curve are good but without the heater, the results will plummet fast.

It would a good trade to free up $15 million

STL threw in a "Fittsful of dollars" in order to save 20M and acquire a couple of prospects.
It does make one wonder how much more return might have been possible for "a few dollars more".
I would have preferred keeping Sonny through July of next year to give STL more of a chance to compete in 2026, but since we don't know how he would have performed next season nor know what else may "bloom" this off-season, I will concede it remains a "Gray area" for now.

Gray 5’10 180lbs at 37 has probably produced his best. For once Cards sell high or as good as this situation gets

Melville wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 20:27 pm

hmoss859 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 14:11 pm Sonny is a 5 inning pitcher at best.

His fastball gets hammered at a 558 SLG pct.

His slider and curve are good but without the heater, the results will plummet fast.

It would a good trade to free up $15 million

STL threw in a "Fittsful of dollars" in order to save 20M and acquire a couple of prospects.
It does make one wonder how much more return might have been possible for "a few dollars more".
I would have preferred keeping Sonny through July of next year to give STL more of a chance to compete in 2026, but since we don't know how he would have performed next season nor know what else may "bloom" this off-season, I will concede it remains a "Gray area" for now.

Spaghetti westerns plus a little feel good for the holiday.

This has a lot of an offseason to go. There are some distinct moves that there is freedom to pursue that may have still existed
at the TD but that's also an unknown. There's a full list of FA's to choose from. A couple may perform as well as SG for the same money saved in his contract. A Bassitt or a Kelly certainly fitt the profile if desired.

Bloom has made mention of wanting a veteran in the rotation. I'll assume that he does. According to MLBTR the Cardinals could get into some intriguing waters IF they so desired an anchor to the rotation. MLBTR is not perfect but better than
taking Reno's word for it. Ranger Suarez is guessed at 5/$115 hardly more than the saved monies from SG on a single season
AAV if an anchor were desired much like Seattle did with Castillo and allow the youth around a veteran.

or keep Donovan and focus on lesser trades IF his market is less than thought. No urgency with him.

Goldfan wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 21:27 pm

Melville wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 20:27 pm

hmoss859 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 14:11 pm Sonny is a 5 inning pitcher at best.

His fastball gets hammered at a 558 SLG pct.

His slider and curve are good but without the heater, the results will plummet fast.

It would a good trade to free up $15 million

STL threw in a "Fittsful of dollars" in order to save 20M and acquire a couple of prospects.
It does make one wonder how much more return might have been possible for "a few dollars more".
I would have preferred keeping Sonny through July of next year to give STL more of a chance to compete in 2026, but since we don't know how he would have performed next season nor know what else may "bloom" this off-season, I will concede it remains a "Gray area" for now.

Gray 5’10 180lbs at 37 has probably produced his best. For once Cards sell high or as good as this situation gets

Coming off of the second most innings pitched in ANY 3 year period of his career.
Not at all wishing him poor health just mentioning he has risks that a TD deadline deal
would have.

Cusecards wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 11:23 am I’ll defer to other posters...such as Duce....who are much more knowledgeable on prospects than I am.
Since the Option on Gray for 2027 would not be picked up it makes total sense to move him now.
Rotation:
Libby
McGreevey
then???
Sounds like Leahy might be in the picture?
Pallante possible but I see him to the BP.
Mathews certainly gets a look in ST.
With more moves to follow(Arenado?) that will save some $$ I would expect Bloom to sign a vet for the rotation(maybe two?) on a one year deal.

Should be an interesting Hot Stove Season.

BTW- If Bloom signs Mikolas as the one year vet I expect CT to implode from within.

fitts is likely in the rotation id think

Wattage wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 23:15 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 11:23 am I’ll defer to other posters...such as Duce....who are much more knowledgeable on prospects than I am.
Since the Option on Gray for 2027 would not be picked up it makes total sense to move him now.
Rotation:
Libby
McGreevey
then???
Sounds like Leahy might be in the picture?
Pallante possible but I see him to the BP.
Mathews certainly gets a look in ST.
With more moves to follow(Arenado?) that will save some $$ I would expect Bloom to sign a vet for the rotation(maybe two?) on a one year deal.

Should be an interesting Hot Stove Season.

BTW- If Bloom signs Mikolas as the one year vet I expect CT to implode from within.

fitts is likely in the rotation id think

After doing more reading up on him I agree.

Cusecards wrote: ↑26 Nov 2025 09:39 am

Wattage wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 23:15 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 11:23 am I’ll defer to other posters...such as Duce....who are much more knowledgeable on prospects than I am.
Since the Option on Gray for 2027 would not be picked up it makes total sense to move him now.
Rotation:
Libby
McGreevey
then???
Sounds like Leahy might be in the picture?
Pallante possible but I see him to the BP.
Mathews certainly gets a look in ST.
With more moves to follow(Arenado?) that will save some $$ I would expect Bloom to sign a vet for the rotation(maybe two?) on a one year deal.

Should be an interesting Hot Stove Season.

BTW- If Bloom signs Mikolas as the one year vet I expect CT to implode from within.

fitts is likely in the rotation id think

After doing more reading up on him I agree.

McGreevy, Liberatore, and Fitts. Two more holes to fill via trades.