Sonny Gray to the Redsox

[ScotchMIrish]

Bet. High level third base prospect or left fielder. Any takers.

Nope, a 26 yo bad pitcher, an injury risk who hasn't surpassed A ball, and a PTBNL.

Fitts in 10 MLB starts went less than 5 innings 6 times and only pitched on 4 days rest once. Clarke will likely be a one inning reliever. Potential setup man or closer. If he uses the money saved to sign a respectable MLB player then it's about as good as could be expected.

Ok,
But be complete, how many innings will SG pitch for $40 million and does
that $20 million buy anything or go into the pockets of BD?

I don't know but I do know this is a dump and rebuild. I'm guessing Bloom will bring in a couple pitchers but who knows? Another question is at what level Jr is still active or is this all III?

[RamFan08NY]

on a positive note ... I won't have to spend any money going to Busch Stadium until 2027 ... yippee!

Thats too bad. Always fun to watch the up and coming young players who will mold the Cardinals future. Much better than watching 4 or 5 late 30s vets biding their time.

[zuck698]

Clarke has had more major arm injuries and trouble staying healthy than even Tink Hence. He’s never reached 40 IP in a minor league season. He’s had huge K/9 numbers though, so he’s the typical boom or bust prospect teams get back in a salary dump trade.

He's no even reached 40!innings across 4 years.

Turns 23.

This is a lottery pick.

Agreed and as expected but this kid could have big upside

BUT

There could also be $15M ????? in payroll space savings, hopefully BDWJr let's Bloom re-invest it!

We will see

This trade should be graded on how they spend the contract money saved not how much they saved or prospects they got.

You seem skeptical. Me too.

And we have a Bingo! Color me skeptical as well.

[Melville]

So much for geographic location for Sonny I guess.

you beat me to it

A one year geographical commitment is very different than a 3 year commitment on Gray's part.

[Bubble4427]

Clarke has had more major arm injuries and trouble staying healthy than even Tink Hence. He’s never reached 40 IP in a minor league season. He’s had huge K/9 numbers though, so he’s the typical boom or bust prospect teams get back in a salary dump trade.

He's no even reached 40!innings across 4 years.

Turns 23.

This is a lottery pick.

Agreed and as expected but this kid could have big upside

BUT

There could also be $15M ????? in payroll space savings, hopefully BDWJr let's Bloom re-invest it!

We will see

This trade should be graded on how they spend the contract money saved not how much they saved or prospects they got.

They aren't going to spend that money this year for sure.
What are people smoking on here. Bloom was brought in here to slash payroll and collect prospects.
This thing will take 3-4 years before its even remotely possible that Dewitt opens up his wallet for anyone of significance.
Bloom was chosen because of his history working with Tampa (cheap payroll grow prospects) and Boston (trimmed payroll severely while Bloom was in charge).

Cards won't spend a dime. Expect our payroll to go down 40-50 million dollars from last seasons.

Good trade for today....won't change tomorrow or next year much....which is fine I guess.

You seem skeptical. Me too.

And we have a Bingo! Color me skeptical as well.

[Melville]

Per BTV:

Gray: -9.4
Cash: 20
Total: 10.6

Fitts: 7.5
Carke: 16.2
Total: 23.7


Basically buying younger assets and offloading incremental salary. Makes sense.

BTV is a toy.
Not a serious tool.

[Melville]

I’ll defer to other posters...such as Duce....who are much more knowledgeable on prospects than I am.
Since the Option on Gray for 2027 would not be picked up it makes total sense to move him now.
Rotation:
Libby
McGreevey
then???
Sounds like Leahy might be in the picture?
Pallante possible but I see him to the BP.
Mathews certainly gets a look in ST.
With more moves to follow(Arenado?) that will save some $$ I would expect Bloom to sign a vet for the rotation(maybe two?) on a one year deal.

Should be an interesting Hot Stove Season.

BTW- If Bloom signs Mikolas as the one year vet I expect CT to implode from within.

Bloom will unquestionably add a veteran arm.
You are correct about Mikolas - and STL is well aware of that, which is why it will not be him.

[12xu]

He's their 3rd best pitching prospect. And the cheery on top is we got some dude named Dick Fitts. So that's good to know

Next spring we will see if the Dick Fitts......

[Melville]

it's a good trade....face value, early indications. I'm elated. Of course you grade much later (several seasons), but again, early indications, we did well here.

Watching vid on Clarke love seeing his 'crossfire ' motion and how he can throw it outside low and left hitter was swinging at air .

This team could have quite the lefty pitchers in a couple years ... Libby, Doyle, and Clarke With Doyle and Clark very high velocity types

LHP is our strength and it just got deeper....that's where we should trade from....not catcher (not yet, at least)

Yeah I wonder if Matthews could be on the move. Perhaps even packaged with Donny to get an absolute stud of a young player or with Arenado to get someone to take his salary. Not that adding Clarke has anything to do with it. But maybe this made such a thought process easier

Mathews is indeed best leveraged as a trade piece - as I was first to understand and explain to all a few months ago.

[Melville]

it's a good trade....face value, early indications. I'm elated. Of course you grade much later (several seasons), but again, early indications, we did well here.

Watching vid on Clarke love seeing his 'crossfire ' motion and how he can throw it outside low and left hitter was swinging at air .

This team could have quite the lefty pitchers in a couple years ... Libby, Doyle, and Clarke With Doyle and Clark very high velocity types

LHP is our strength and it just got deeper....that's where we should trade from....not catcher (not yet, at least)

Both is the CORRECT answer.
As I explained months ago.

[Melville]

it's a good trade....face value, early indications. I'm elated. Of course you grade much later (several seasons), but again, early indications, we did well here.

Watching vid on Clarke love seeing his 'crossfire ' motion and how he can throw it outside low and left hitter was swinging at air .

This team could have quite the lefty pitchers in a couple years ... Libby, Doyle, and Clarke With Doyle and Clark very high velocity types

LHP is our strength and it just got deeper....that's where we should trade from....not catcher (not yet, at least)

Yeah I wonder if Matthews could be on the move. Perhaps even packaged with Donny to get an absolute stud of a young player or with Arenado to get someone to take his salary. Not that adding Clarke has anything to do with it. But maybe this made such a thought process easier

If Mathews is moved, it will be exactly as I correctly analyzed months ago.

[Talkin' Baseball]

it's a good trade....face value, early indications. I'm elated. Of course you grade much later (several seasons), but again, early indications, we did well here.

Watching vid on Clarke love seeing his 'crossfire ' motion and how he can throw it outside low and left hitter was swinging at air .

This team could have quite the lefty pitchers in a couple years ... Libby, Doyle, and Clarke With Doyle and Clark very high velocity types

LHP is our strength and it just got deeper....that's where we should trade from....not catcher (not yet, at least)

Both is the CORRECT answer.
As I explained months ago.

Both

[Melville]

A lot of folks jumping onto the train to Clarkesville.
I like to move, based on what is currently known.
But, I won't be purchasing a ticket for that trip just yet.

[Cusecards]

I’ll defer to other posters...such as Duce....who are much more knowledgeable on prospects than I am.
Since the Option on Gray for 2027 would not be picked up it makes total sense to move him now.
Rotation:
Libby
McGreevey
then???
Sounds like Leahy might be in the picture?
Pallante possible but I see him to the BP.
Mathews certainly gets a look in ST.
With more moves to follow(Arenado?) that will save some $$ I would expect Bloom to sign a vet for the rotation(maybe two?) on a one year deal.

Should be an interesting Hot Stove Season.

BTW- If Bloom signs Mikolas as the one year vet I expect CT to implode from within.

Bloom will unquestionably add a veteran arm.
You are correct about Mikolas - and STL is well aware of that, which is why it will not be him.

Agree

[rockondlouie]

Bloom will unquestionably add a veteran arm.

I've been saying the same

And he just verified that on the radio saying he's still looking to add to the rotation, even a veteran arm.

[renostl]

Bet. High level third base prospect or left fielder. Any takers.

Nope, a 26 yo bad pitcher, an injury risk who hasn't surpassed A ball, and a PTBNL.

Fitts in 10 MLB starts went less than 5 innings 6 times and only pitched on 4 days rest once. Clarke will likely be a one inning reliever. Potential setup man or closer. If he uses the money saved to sign a respectable MLB player then it's about as good as could be expected.

Ok,
But be complete, how many innings will SG pitch for $40 million and does
that $20 million buy anything or go into the pockets of BD?

I don't know but I do know this is a dump and rebuild. I'm guessing Bloom will bring in a couple pitchers but who knows? Another question is at what level Jr is still active or is this all III?

and neither does any of us.
I posted a while back that the issue some of the issue with Sonny going into 2026 is that
he wasn't more than 1 pitcher for the $40 million, $35 for 2026. They now have 1 in Fitts who
has to emerge to what he was in his Sept call up in 2024, a prospect who is a #5 level prospect
and the funds to add. However that turns out. I'll say 2026 budget was X. That it is still X.

I also usually like to look at a trade in reverse. IF the Cards traded their #5 Mathews, a fringe SP say Pallante
plus change in the cash or PTBNL would I be happy with SG who slots in a #2 or #3 in that rotation?
Objectively, I would think 2 things. Aim higher and what was the rush about this deal? a lot of pitching
out there and this 36 y/o is costing us $21 million plus the players.