The Cardinals with Kyle Tucker.

[WLTFE]

Depends on how close you think the Cardinals actually are to competing and how much Tucker is going to get.

If Tucker gets, say, 10 yrs./$300 million, you should be expecting to be in "win now" mode over about the first five years of that contract moreso than waiting until the last five.

There are positive signs in the productivity of the Cardinals young players, but I don't know if this offseason or the offseason after the 2026 season is the time to start adding pieces again.

The last projection I saw was 12 years for 525

Tucker is not coming to Stl.

If 12/525 is the deal, I hope he doesn't come to St Louis. Someone is going to pay an average of 43.75M per season through his age 41 season? He might deliver 5 eilite seasons and 3 fair seasons. Has anyone noticed the decline in our age 34 third baseman? Hello. Tell me (not a rhetorical question) who out there presently is worth 30M annually at the following ages:
35
36
37
38
39
40
41

Spot on……it’s surprising some want to sign Tucker with their experience of Goldschmidt and arenado….highly paid players, aging and performing poorly….

It’s not the per season cost….its the years these guys want

That’s why H said adios

It’s not a pretty picture. If we don’t sign bigger fish eventually, we run the risk of being consumed by said species.

In order to compete we need to up our ante. Otherwise we are a flightless bird.

I agree that the talent level needs to be higher, but are you suggesting we pay large sums per season to players through their age 40 or beyond seasons?

No. I’m certain Tucker will have an opt out, and take it. As for longevity he seems the body type to handle a long season. This less injury.

Anyway the point is, it’s this level talent we need to get to our top, and if not Tucker , who? And if not now , when.

The current model is moving like pond water.

The current model has been in place less than a year.

The new guy…and the changes he will bring is not officially in place.

Patience Grasshopper

I hear you, but one playoff series win in 10 years doesn’t lend itself to a lot of desire for patience. Abysmal attendance says as much.

I feel your pain

I have been through this type situation, but if done correctly a rebuild can lead to long term success.

I will grant you that there is some question as to whether the people currently in place can get it right.

In the meantime, enjoy the Tigers title.

Congrats to your kids.

If they had fired or reassigned Mo after last year, I’d be fully on board with their plan. The fact that they let him keep his job for a farewell tour shows they’re not serious.

+1...and the spoiled fans are letting them know...

[CCard]

I like the Tucker possibility, I'm saying that up front.

That being said, I don't see any big, out-of-house signings before the huge labor obstacle is solved in 2027. I never expect the big signings in a normal setting, that's not our makeup.

We could do an inhouse signing or two this offseason, but that's about it.

Bet your butt that some billionaire will sign him. Just not the penny pinching DeWitt. Another star going to a high payroll team, probably with deferred money.

CCard - Guess that makes 2/3 of the owners of ML teams "penny pinchers". Right?

Just watch the playoffs and you'll see who spends money. The proof is in the pudding as they say.

So, you would like to spend like the Dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Phillies, etc.?

You know who else cries poor all the time? The Pirates, Reds, Marlins, etc etc. What do these teams have in common? They don't pony up on the payroll. No one is saying to spend $350 million like the Dodgers, but come on, cutting payroll when you're already way below the luxury tax threshold? This has been beaten to death already. They're being cheap. And cheap in the MLB gets you jack cht.

They're actually giving some talented young players a chance to succeed. Pretty exciting to see, and working fairly well so far. You should watch the interview with Cerfolio that was posted on here. It was revealing.

I love young players succeeding. But those young players eventually have to be paid. Here's where you have perennial losers show up. They can't keep the stars they grow, pardon me, they WON'T keep the players they grow. That being said, where you become an elite team is plugging in a superstar here or there. It only takes a couple to lift a team to championship status. The best way is to sign a top tier pitcher or two if you can get lucky and sign them.

[Cranny]

I like the Tucker possibility, I'm saying that up front.

That being said, I don't see any big, out-of-house signings before the huge labor obstacle is solved in 2027. I never expect the big signings in a normal setting, that's not our makeup.

We could do an inhouse signing or two this offseason, but that's about it.

Bet your butt that some billionaire will sign him. Just not the penny pinching DeWitt. Another star going to a high payroll team, probably with deferred money.

CCard - Guess that makes 2/3 of the owners of ML teams "penny pinchers". Right?

Just watch the playoffs and you'll see who spends money. The proof is in the pudding as they say.

So, you would like to spend like the Dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Phillies, etc.?

You know who else cries poor all the time? The Pirates, Reds, Marlins, etc etc. What do these teams have in common? They don't pony up on the payroll. No one is saying to spend $350 million like the Dodgers, but come on, cutting payroll when you're already way below the luxury tax threshold? This has been beaten to death already. They're being cheap. And cheap in the MLB gets you jack cht.

They're actually giving some talented young players a chance to succeed. Pretty exciting to see, and working fairly well so far. You should watch the interview with Cerfolio that was posted on here. It was revealing.

I love young players succeeding. But those young players eventually have to be paid. Here's where you have perennial losers show up. They can't keep the stars they grow, pardon me, they WON'T keep the players they grow. That being said, where you become an elite team is plugging in a superstar here or there. It only takes a couple to lift a team to championship status. The best way is to sign a top tier pitcher or two if you can get lucky and sign them.

The Cards like to first see how a player fits in with teammates, manager, coaches, the front office, fans, the St. Louis Community, etc. Look to the Matt Holliday model. That’s the key. Bloom and Cerfolio feel the same way.

[Talkin' Baseball]

They just say stuff that suits them. They will just as easily sign Dexter Fowler, or Mike Leake, or Brett Cecil, or Greg Holland, or...

[Honky Tonk Man]

They just say stuff that suits them. They will just as easily sign Dexter Fowler, or Mike Leake, or Brett Cecil, or Greg Holland, or...

I will always believe the reason Matheny was fired was because of the worthless Fowler,

[Talkin' Baseball]

They just say stuff that suits them. They will just as easily sign Dexter Fowler, or Mike Leake, or Brett Cecil, or Greg Holland, or...

I will always believe the reason Matheny was fired was because of the worthless Fowler,

I'm not so sure. When a formerly successful franchise such as the Cardinals are poised for sustained mediocrity, every so often the fanbase demands a human sacrifice. They can then declare how this is unacceptable for Cardinal baseball and sell people on the hope of new leadership. It costs a lot less to change the manager than to change a roster. I think all of that was at play for Matheny. And, truthfully, he didn't advance in his skills very well.

[Honky Tonk Man]

They just say stuff that suits them. They will just as easily sign Dexter Fowler, or Mike Leake, or Brett Cecil, or Greg Holland, or...

I will always believe the reason Matheny was fired was because of the worthless Fowler,

I'm not so sure. When a formerly successful franchise such as the Cardinals are poised for sustained mediocrity, every so often the fanbase demands a human sacrifice. They can then declare how this is unacceptable for Cardinal baseball and sell people on the hope of new leadership. It costs a lot less to change the manager than to change a roster. I think all of that was at play for Matheny. And, truthfully, he didn't advance in his skills very well.

all good points, but that Fowler signing was a total numbskull move Fowler wasn't even an average player

[desertrat23]

I like the Tucker possibility, I'm saying that up front.

That being said, I don't see any big, out-of-house signings before the huge labor obstacle is solved in 2027. I never expect the big signings in a normal setting, that's not our makeup.

We could do an inhouse signing or two this offseason, but that's about it.

Bet your butt that some billionaire will sign him. Just not the penny pinching DeWitt. Another star going to a high payroll team, probably with deferred money.

CCard - Guess that makes 2/3 of the owners of ML teams "penny pinchers". Right?

Just watch the playoffs and you'll see who spends money. The proof is in the pudding as they say.

So, you would like to spend like the Dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Phillies, etc.?

You know who else cries poor all the time? The Pirates, Reds, Marlins, etc etc. What do these teams have in common? They don't pony up on the payroll. No one is saying to spend $350 million like the Dodgers, but come on, cutting payroll when you're already way below the luxury tax threshold? This has been beaten to death already. They're being cheap. And cheap in the MLB gets you jack cht.

They're actually giving some talented young players a chance to succeed. Pretty exciting to see, and working fairly well so far. You should watch the interview with Cerfolio that was posted on here. It was revealing.

I love young players succeeding. But those young players eventually have to be paid. Here's where you have perennial losers show up. They can't keep the stars they grow, pardon me, they WON'T keep the players they grow. That being said, where you become an elite team is plugging in a superstar here or there. It only takes a couple to lift a team to championship status. The best way is to sign a top tier pitcher or two if you can get lucky and sign them.

The Cards like to first see how a player fits in with teammates, manager, coaches, the front office, fans, the St. Louis Community, etc. Look to the Matt Holliday model. That’s the key. Bloom and Cerfolio feel the same way.

“The Matt Holliday model.”

That was FIFTEEN. YEARS. AGO.

Talk about a prime example of why the organization has become stale and irrelevant. Everything refers to 10, 15, 20 years ago. The game has changed. You’re rarely if ever going to get players to give hometown discount just because they’re enamored with BFIB folderol. It’s foolish to have that be a tactic to count on.

Also, how do you have any idea how Bloom and Cerfolio feel?

[Cranny]

I like the Tucker possibility, I'm saying that up front.

That being said, I don't see any big, out-of-house signings before the huge labor obstacle is solved in 2027. I never expect the big signings in a normal setting, that's not our makeup.

We could do an inhouse signing or two this offseason, but that's about it.

Bet your butt that some billionaire will sign him. Just not the penny pinching DeWitt. Another star going to a high payroll team, probably with deferred money.

CCard - Guess that makes 2/3 of the owners of ML teams "penny pinchers". Right?

Just watch the playoffs and you'll see who spends money. The proof is in the pudding as they say.

So, you would like to spend like the Dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Phillies, etc.?

You know who else cries poor all the time? The Pirates, Reds, Marlins, etc etc. What do these teams have in common? They don't pony up on the payroll. No one is saying to spend $350 million like the Dodgers, but come on, cutting payroll when you're already way below the luxury tax threshold? This has been beaten to death already. They're being cheap. And cheap in the MLB gets you jack cht.

They're actually giving some talented young players a chance to succeed. Pretty exciting to see, and working fairly well so far. You should watch the interview with Cerfolio that was posted on here. It was revealing.

I love young players succeeding. But those young players eventually have to be paid. Here's where you have perennial losers show up. They can't keep the stars they grow, pardon me, they WON'T keep the players they grow. That being said, where you become an elite team is plugging in a superstar here or there. It only takes a couple to lift a team to championship status. The best way is to sign a top tier pitcher or two if you can get lucky and sign them.

The Cards like to first see how a player fits in with teammates, manager, coaches, the front office, fans, the St. Louis Community, etc. Look to the Matt Holliday model. That’s the key. Bloom and Cerfolio feel the same way.

“The Matt Holliday model.”

That was FIFTEEN. YEARS. AGO.

Talk about a prime example of why the organization has become stale and irrelevant. Everything refers to 10, 15, 20 years ago. The game has changed. You’re rarely if ever going to get players to give hometown discount just because they’re enamored with BFIB folderol. It’s foolish to have that be a tactic to count on.

Also, how do you have any idea how Bloom and Cerfolio feel?
[/quote)

People like you really don't get it, do you rat? It doesn't matter whether it was a year ago or 10-15-20 years ago. I'll say it again. The Cardinals want to see how a player fits in - with teammates, manager, coaches, front office, fans, the community, etc. before they commit long term dollars to him. You can't do that "cold" with a FA. They tried it with
Fowler, Leake, Cecil, etc., etc. and how did that work out? So how do you do it? Again, look at the Holliday model with
your intelligence and introspection. And if you don't believe me, watch the Cerfolio video that was posted on here. He's a young hot property in the front office world and he said the at least 50% of the assessment of a player is based upon his character and not just on his skills.

[WLTFE]

I was in the trade for Tucker camp…..no reason why this team can’t have ONE stud in OF

Exactly. Just one. We need a Face.

+1... but DeTwit is not going to make a big move and soon Mo-ran can spend more time with his beautiful family...that's a major reason why fans are staying away...no big star to draw them...and the front office (donkey) kissers will continue to tell us how great things used to be...

[Cranny]

Some posters offer nothing of value, and are just here to troll.

[desertrat23]

I like the Tucker possibility, I'm saying that up front.

That being said, I don't see any big, out-of-house signings before the huge labor obstacle is solved in 2027. I never expect the big signings in a normal setting, that's not our makeup.

We could do an inhouse signing or two this offseason, but that's about it.

Bet your butt that some billionaire will sign him. Just not the penny pinching DeWitt. Another star going to a high payroll team, probably with deferred money.

CCard - Guess that makes 2/3 of the owners of ML teams "penny pinchers". Right?

Just watch the playoffs and you'll see who spends money. The proof is in the pudding as they say.

So, you would like to spend like the Dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Phillies, etc.?

You know who else cries poor all the time? The Pirates, Reds, Marlins, etc etc. What do these teams have in common? They don't pony up on the payroll. No one is saying to spend $350 million like the Dodgers, but come on, cutting payroll when you're already way below the luxury tax threshold? This has been beaten to death already. They're being cheap. And cheap in the MLB gets you jack cht.

They're actually giving some talented young players a chance to succeed. Pretty exciting to see, and working fairly well so far. You should watch the interview with Cerfolio that was posted on here. It was revealing.

I love young players succeeding. But those young players eventually have to be paid. Here's where you have perennial losers show up. They can't keep the stars they grow, pardon me, they WON'T keep the players they grow. That being said, where you become an elite team is plugging in a superstar here or there. It only takes a couple to lift a team to championship status. The best way is to sign a top tier pitcher or two if you can get lucky and sign them.

The Cards like to first see how a player fits in with teammates, manager, coaches, the front office, fans, the St. Louis Community, etc. Look to the Matt Holliday model. That’s the key. Bloom and Cerfolio feel the same way.

“The Matt Holliday model.”

That was FIFTEEN. YEARS. AGO.

Talk about a prime example of why the organization has become stale and irrelevant. Everything refers to 10, 15, 20 years ago. The game has changed. You’re rarely if ever going to get players to give hometown discount just because they’re enamored with BFIB folderol. It’s foolish to have that be a tactic to count on.

Also, how do you have any idea how Bloom and Cerfolio feel?
[/quote)

People like you really don't get it, do you rat? It doesn't matter whether it was a year ago or 10-15-20 years ago. I'll say it again. The Cardinals want to see how a player fits in - with teammates, manager, coaches, front office, fans, the community, etc. before they commit long term dollars to him. You can't do that "cold" with a FA. They tried it with
Fowler, Leake, Cecil, etc., etc. and how did that work out? So how do you do it? Again, look at the Holliday model with
your intelligence and introspection. And if you don't believe me, watch the Cerfolio video that was posted on here. He's a young hot property in the front office world and he said the at least 50% of the assessment of a player is based upon his character and not just on his skills.

Yeah, the reason Fowler, Leake, Cecil, etc., didn’t work was because they didn’t bring those guys in first to see how they fit in. Those guys didn’t work because the Cardinals were shopping in the bargain aisle again, rather than shopping for the premium product.

[desertrat23]

Some posters offer nothing of value, and are just here to troll.

Oh, the irony!

[CCard]

I like the Tucker possibility, I'm saying that up front.

That being said, I don't see any big, out-of-house signings before the huge labor obstacle is solved in 2027. I never expect the big signings in a normal setting, that's not our makeup.

We could do an inhouse signing or two this offseason, but that's about it.

Bet your butt that some billionaire will sign him. Just not the penny pinching DeWitt. Another star going to a high payroll team, probably with deferred money.

CCard - Guess that makes 2/3 of the owners of ML teams "penny pinchers". Right?

Just watch the playoffs and you'll see who spends money. The proof is in the pudding as they say.

So, you would like to spend like the Dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Phillies, etc.?

You know who else cries poor all the time? The Pirates, Reds, Marlins, etc etc. What do these teams have in common? They don't pony up on the payroll. No one is saying to spend $350 million like the Dodgers, but come on, cutting payroll when you're already way below the luxury tax threshold? This has been beaten to death already. They're being cheap. And cheap in the MLB gets you jack cht.

They're actually giving some talented young players a chance to succeed. Pretty exciting to see, and working fairly well so far. You should watch the interview with Cerfolio that was posted on here. It was revealing.

I love young players succeeding. But those young players eventually have to be paid. Here's where you have perennial losers show up. They can't keep the stars they grow, pardon me, they WON'T keep the players they grow. That being said, where you become an elite team is plugging in a superstar here or there. It only takes a couple to lift a team to championship status. The best way is to sign a top tier pitcher or two if you can get lucky and sign them.

The Cards like to first see how a player fits in with teammates, manager, coaches, the front office, fans, the St. Louis Community, etc. Look to the Matt Holliday model. That’s the key. Bloom and Cerfolio feel the same way.

I don't care if they live in the community or screw the neighbor's dog. I only care about the Cards winning. Nothing else matters. I don't watch the games because they're good neighbor's or fabulous people. That's just a silly way to load up a ballclub. Get the best players you can and win championships. I don't personally know any ball players. Do you? If they do something bad enough, you know, like take steroids or beat their wife, then ship their butts out and replace them. Otherwise, stay out of their personal lives and let them produce for the team.

[cardinalsfan27]

After the new labor agreement is reached, I do expect payroll to go up. I suspect a significant portion of that to be for extensions moreso than additions.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but I simply assume this is just the latest excuse floated by ownership as to why they can't spend money. There have been like a half dozen different excuses over the last 3-4 years, but the constant has been decreasing payroll relative to the rest of the league...

So unless the Cards are in a uniquely poor financial position among all 30 clubs, then it's literally just a bunch of excuses. The fact that their relative payroll size continues to drop is what gives the game away.

They can say it, or spin it however they want- but it seems like the fans aren't buying what they are selling anymore.

And who can blame them (the fans)? They see ownership in comparable-sized markets with worse TV deals (think San Diego) actually trying. Cardinals fans are loyal but they're not idiots.

Or maybe the vast amount of past successes have produced some spoiled fans.

Or maybe ownership and the front office have used that as an excuse the last 10 years to barely try and hope that the fans would rely on that past success as a reason to keep giving them money.

[Bad14]

I like the Tucker possibility, I'm saying that up front.

That being said, I don't see any big, out-of-house signings before the huge labor obstacle is solved in 2027. I never expect the big signings in a normal setting, that's not our makeup.

We could do an inhouse signing or two this offseason, but that's about it.

Bet your butt that some billionaire will sign him. Just not the penny pinching DeWitt. Another star going to a high payroll team, probably with deferred money.

CCard - Guess that makes 2/3 of the owners of ML teams "penny pinchers". Right?

Just watch the playoffs and you'll see who spends money. The proof is in the pudding as they say.

So, you would like to spend like the Dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Phillies, etc.?

You know who else cries poor all the time? The Pirates, Reds, Marlins, etc etc. What do these teams have in common? They don't pony up on the payroll. No one is saying to spend $350 million like the Dodgers, but come on, cutting payroll when you're already way below the luxury tax threshold? This has been beaten to death already. They're being cheap. And cheap in the MLB gets you jack cht.

They're actually giving some talented young players a chance to succeed. Pretty exciting to see, and working fairly well so far. You should watch the interview with Cerfolio that was posted on here. It was revealing.

I love young players succeeding. But those young players eventually have to be paid. Here's where you have perennial losers show up. They can't keep the stars they grow, pardon me, they WON'T keep the players they grow. That being said, where you become an elite team is plugging in a superstar here or there. It only takes a couple to lift a team to championship status. The best way is to sign a top tier pitcher or two if you can get lucky and sign them.

The Cards like to first see how a player fits in with teammates, manager, coaches, the front office, fans, the St. Louis Community, etc. Look to the Matt Holliday model. That’s the key. Bloom and Cerfolio feel the same way.

“The Matt Holliday model.”

That was FIFTEEN. YEARS. AGO.

Talk about a prime example of why the organization has become stale and irrelevant. Everything refers to 10, 15, 20 years ago. The game has changed. You’re rarely if ever going to get players to give hometown discount just because they’re enamored with BFIB folderol. It’s foolish to have that be a tactic to count on.

Also, how do you have any idea how Bloom and Cerfolio feel?
[/quote)

People like you really don't get it, do you rat? It doesn't matter whether it was a year ago or 10-15-20 years ago. I'll say it again. The Cardinals want to see how a player fits in - with teammates, manager, coaches, front office, fans, the community, etc. before they commit long term dollars to him. You can't do that "cold" with a FA. They tried it with
Fowler, Leake, Cecil, etc., etc. and how did that work out? So how do you do it? Again, look at the Holliday model with
your intelligence and introspection. And if you don't believe me, watch the Cerfolio video that was posted on here. He's a young hot property in the front office world and he said the at least 50% of the assessment of a player is based upon his character and not just on his skills.

Yeah, the reason Fowler, Leake, Cecil, etc., didn’t work was because they didn’t bring those guys in first to see how they fit in. Those guys didn’t work because the Cardinals were shopping in the bargain aisle again, rather than shopping for the premium product.

Right? That was so stupid I couldn't bring myself to respond. He doesn't realize that reputations of players are well known before they get to MLB. Some of these guys have known each other since HS or college. They certainly have crossed paths in the minors. And there are so many scouts today. No team needs to test drive a player. Teams know the character of the player before they sign him. Talk about adding nothing.