Ten Games Since Lineup Shakeup

[stlbirdlover]

I hope I live to see the day Marmol is no longer the manager of the Cards!

[cardinalsfever44]

MLB RBI leader Sal Stewart bats 2nd for his team.
3rd place in RBI's is Yordan Alvarez, who bats 2nd for his team.
Walker is currently 4th
5th place is Luis Garcia Jr. who bats 2nd for his team
6th place is Ben Rice who bats 2nd for his team

So 5 of the top 6 guys in RBI's this season are currently batting 2nd in their lineup.

[Bob Kunush]

MLB RBI leader Sal Stewart bats 2nd for his team.
3rd place in RBI's is Yordan Alvarez, who bats 2nd for his team.
Walker is currently 4th
5th place is Luis Garcia Jr. who bats 2nd for his team
6th place is Ben Rice who bats 2nd for his team

So 5 of the top 6 guys in RBI's this season are currently batting 2nd in their lineup.

Your factual and well supported post adds nothing to this thread since only the opinions that support Oli being wrong are considered correct. Despite the facts provided, i am sure from reading Card Talk experts that Marmol is the only manager dumb enough to bat his RBI leader higher than 4th. Everyone knows that every shortcoming on this team is on it's manager.

[Chitownredbird]

They scored 32 runs in the 10 games prior to the lineup changes.

They've scored 30 runs in the last 10 games since the lineup changes.

Maybe the lineup just sucks and it really doesn't matter where any of these guys are hitting. I think the last clutch hit from this offense was like 3 months ago. It's bad.

This will likely be ignored. The need to blame the manager is too strong.

I’m well aware of our offensive shortcomings and the fact those shortcomings have been pronounced over the last 30 games. As a result shouldn’t we be maximizing our run scoring potential by hitting our best hitter (especially a best hitter who leads in SLG) in the lineup behind our best OBP guys. When a team is struggling offensively it makes the batting order even more important. I would argue that is especially true when the in game strategy doesn’t seem to include “manufacturing “ runs.

I don’t blame the manager for failures of execution by the players. But the players don’t write the lineup or manage in game strategy.

[cardinalsfever44]

MLB RBI leader Sal Stewart bats 2nd for his team.
3rd place in RBI's is Yordan Alvarez, who bats 2nd for his team.
Walker is currently 4th
5th place is Luis Garcia Jr. who bats 2nd for his team
6th place is Ben Rice who bats 2nd for his team

So 5 of the top 6 guys in RBI's this season are currently batting 2nd in their lineup.

Your factual and well supported post adds nothing to this thread since only the opinions that support Oli being wrong are considered correct. Despite the facts provided, i am sure from reading Card Talk experts that Marmol is the only manager dumb enough to bat his RBI leader higher than 4th. Everyone knows that every shortcoming on this team is on it's manager.

Yeah, I know.

I just like to look at the full picture as opposed to the "Cardinals lose, manager bad" thinking of many on CT.

[boulanger]

we had 4 1/2 good months. now team is unwatchable.

[gpe13579]

Its possible and likely to me that the lineup isn't good and the construction of the lineup isn't good.

Both can be true.

[cardinalsfever44]

Another interesting thing brought up during the game today is that Burly is the teams best hitter with RISP, batting .347 in such situations.

Herrera is batting .233 with RISP, so not really doing much hitting in the 2nd spot with runners on base.

[Cusecards]

First> I am not an Oli fan as I consider him below average.
And if they replaced him I’d be fine.
Second> My expectations for this season was maybe .500 with no playoffs.
Third> My hope was to stick with the youth and the development of the Farm System which has been on the rise and has me excited and optimistic.

Being nine games over .500 had me excited but didn’t seem sustainable.
So while the current skid is a bummer I can’t say it is unexpected.
Stick with the plan! Finish stronger and hope the top prospects do also.
2027 should see a more talented team.

[RamFan08NY]

MLB RBI leader Sal Stewart bats 2nd for his team.
3rd place in RBI's is Yordan Alvarez, who bats 2nd for his team.
Walker is currently 4th
5th place is Luis Garcia Jr. who bats 2nd for his team
6th place is Ben Rice who bats 2nd for his team

So 5 of the top 6 guys in RBI's this season are currently batting 2nd in their lineup.

And theyre probably kep there too. If it works, dont change it.
With the Cardinals bottom of the order bats, it doesn't work.

[cardinalsfever44]

MLB RBI leader Sal Stewart bats 2nd for his team.
3rd place in RBI's is Yordan Alvarez, who bats 2nd for his team.
Walker is currently 4th
5th place is Luis Garcia Jr. who bats 2nd for his team
6th place is Ben Rice who bats 2nd for his team

So 5 of the top 6 guys in RBI's this season are currently batting 2nd in their lineup.

And theyre probably kep there too. If it works, dont change it.
With the Cardinals bottom of the order bats, it doesn't work.

The old lineup wasn't working either. See my other post in this thread about how bad this offense has been for the past month plus. It's dead last in the league bad.

[RamFan08NY]

MLB RBI leader Sal Stewart bats 2nd for his team.
3rd place in RBI's is Yordan Alvarez, who bats 2nd for his team.
Walker is currently 4th
5th place is Luis Garcia Jr. who bats 2nd for his team
6th place is Ben Rice who bats 2nd for his team

So 5 of the top 6 guys in RBI's this season are currently batting 2nd in their lineup.

Your factual and well supported post adds nothing to this thread since only the opinions that support Oli being wrong are considered correct. Despite the facts provided, i am sure from reading Card Talk experts that Marmol is the only manager dumb enough to bat his RBI leader higher than 4th. Everyone knows that every shortcoming on this team is on it's manager.

The frustration for me has nothing to do with other teams strengths, or who other teams have hitting 7-8-9. We all remember Tommy Herr knocking in 100 runs from the 2 hole. Not all teams are constructed the same. For the 2026 Cardinals, their OB guys were hitting 1-2-3.

JW as leading ALL OF MLB in RBI hitting 4th , behind JJW, Ivan and Burly. It seemed every time he came to bat there was RISP. Then, its almost like someone said....." this isn't fair, let's give someone else a chance at those RBI". Why else would you change something that you were #1 at?

[C-Unit]

Didn’t Pujols bat second sometimes? I didn’t like that either.

Edmonds did sometimes in front of Pujols. That was really ahead of it's time in the early 2000s to have a 40 hr guy like Edmonds hitting 2nd. It looked good because it was a deep lineup with Rolen and Renteria etc to follow.

[cardinalsfever44]

MLB RBI leader Sal Stewart bats 2nd for his team.
3rd place in RBI's is Yordan Alvarez, who bats 2nd for his team.
Walker is currently 4th
5th place is Luis Garcia Jr. who bats 2nd for his team
6th place is Ben Rice who bats 2nd for his team

So 5 of the top 6 guys in RBI's this season are currently batting 2nd in their lineup.

Your factual and well supported post adds nothing to this thread since only the opinions that support Oli being wrong are considered correct. Despite the facts provided, i am sure from reading Card Talk experts that Marmol is the only manager dumb enough to bat his RBI leader higher than 4th. Everyone knows that every shortcoming on this team is on it's manager.

The frustration for me has nothing to do with other teams strengths, or who other teams have hitting 7-8-9. We all remember Tommy Herr knocking in 100 runs from the 2 hole. Not all teams are constructed the same. For the 2026 Cardinals, their OB guys were hitting 1-2-3.

JW as leading ALL OF MLB in RBI hitting 4th , behind JJW, Ivan and Burly. It seemed every time he came to bat there was RISP. Then, its almost like someone said....." this isn't fair, let's give someone else a chance at those RBI". Why else would you change something that you were #1 at?

But it's not like that at all. This offense died well before the lineup shuffle. They are dead last in every significant offensive category over the last month plus. I would argue that keeping that lineup the same would have been crazy. Has the change worked, absolutely not, but it wasn't working before either. Nobody is hitting and it doesn't much matter where they are making outs in the lineup.

[TopofthePerch]

Walker has the most hits on the team an this gets him an extra at bat per game. If it doesn't work out or is flawed then that's a fair point. To act like Oli is dumb and came up with this based off of no logic isn't at all true. TLR did this all the time and I guarantee a lot of other managers do as well. It's the result of the lineup really struggling

Gonna have to show your work on the "one more AB per game hitting 2nd"

JJW - 3.9 ABs per game this year. 4.5 PA
JW - 4.2 ABs per game this year. 4.45 PA

JJW has 11 more walks than JW.

Basically, their leadoff hitter and cleanup hitter average the same ABs per game.
This isn't even discussing the fact that #2:is going to have less RBI opportunities on the current team.

Twist it any way you want, there is zero justification to move the MLB RBI leaders out of the best RBI position on that team.

Well maybe it's definitely not one more at bat per game but a lot of games through the course of the season the best hitter would get an extra at bat that could be important.

[Bushiro]

Didn’t Pujols bat second sometimes? I didn’t like that either.

Edmonds did sometimes in front of Pujols. That was really ahead of it's time in the early 2000s to have a 40 hr guy like Edmonds hitting 2nd. It looked good because it was a deep lineup with Rolen and Renteria etc to follow.

What did Tony used to say...he loved damage in the 2 hole?....so he would bat the pitcher 8...to get another lead off guy basically batting 9th...now pitchers don't hit so more damage guys hit in the 2 hole...but like its been mentioned ....not all teams are built like that