JJ to the Dodgers.

[Talkin' Baseball]

If the Cardinals are not back competing for titles in four years, it's not a rebuild, it's a failed rebuild.

This is kind of why I hate the whole 'rebuild' idea. Is is so nebulous that teams just do it forever and claim success once they finally start winning a little, regardless of how long that takes. A rebuild that takes more than three years to show significant gains is a failure, and far more rebuilds fail than succeed.

Do you not already see progress here?

[sikeston bulldog2]

The club can try to extend, “lock up” anyone they want…

but the players and their reps have all the power…

If your timeline on Dodger moves is correct…..you can be sure the player and rep know that as well…

there is no "timeline" for dodger baseball currently. which is the issue with baseball in general. It's not rebuild, they are always in perpetual reload. The reason it works for them is they have been solid in the drafting/minor leagues so they can constantly make trades and signings with their infinite money because they have prospects that people are willing to deal for. If they could only make signings, things get a little more hairy.

this thread in general is silly. You could make 50-60 of them of the best players not on the dodger roster and speculate if and when.

Yea. I hear ya. Silly me. Gotta quit smoking that chit.

You make a point i used- Dodgers and recycle. I used a 4-5 year window as a measure of new faces. I was attempting to time it out with a JJ like event.

I’m sure perpetual reload/all young un locked up players are on the Sodgers radar. As you noted-

[sikeston bulldog2]

If the Cardinals are not back competing for titles in four years, it's not a rebuild, it's a failed rebuild.

This is kind of why I hate the whole 'rebuild' idea. Is is so nebulous that teams just do it forever and claim success once they finally start winning a little, regardless of how long that takes. A rebuild that takes more than three years to show significant gains is a failure, and far more rebuilds fail than succeed.

What would you say we needed to do considering the state the org was in.

If you agree that major changes were needed, then it needs a name. That’s where rebuild gained its popularity.

[rockondlouie]

Extending JJW will likely NOT be on the table until the new CBA is in place.

At that time it would be wise of BDWJr to okay C. Bloom locking him down the next eight (8) years.

Next up would be JW if he finishes this season strong (.800+ OPS w/plenty of upside), another eight (8) year candidate.

No way I extend M. Winn, I'd just let him go until he reaches ARB3.

Team aren't going to be lining up to sign a Gold Glove, .690- .700 OPS shortstop.

He can be addressed just before his ARB3 hearing if you want to keep him for 3-4 more years.

JMO

[45s]

The club can try to extend, “lock up” anyone they want…

but the players and their reps have all the power…

If your timeline on Dodger moves is correct…..you can be sure the player and rep know that as well…

Thanx for the input. Saved me some typing. Yes. The player and reps. Now is the time before he breaks out. Once he gets established the cost goes up is think. And if he garners any league honors, again we get pricier.

A new way of doing business for STL.

Is it a piece of the rebuild.

There is merit in the club pursuing extensions…….but I struggle to understand why any potential star player would

Injury. Next five years before FA.

They stand to make more now un- injured and young, as they might five years older and a nagging injury.

Timing is everything.

Yes….but that strikes me as a player betting against themselves……”I better take the money now because I may not be a great player after all”

and as many of mentioned….a new CBA coming….what if arb is dropped to two years, and free agency in four ?

This discussion will be more relevant then…

Anyway, kick off in 4 months…

[callitwhatyouwant]

The club can try to extend, “lock up” anyone they want…

but the players and their reps have all the power…

If your timeline on Dodger moves is correct…..you can be sure the player and rep know that as well…

there is no "timeline" for dodger baseball currently. which is the issue with baseball in general. It's not rebuild, they are always in perpetual reload. The reason it works for them is they have been solid in the drafting/minor leagues so they can constantly make trades and signings with their infinite money because they have prospects that people are willing to deal for. If they could only make signings, things get a little more hairy.

this thread in general is silly. You could make 50-60 of them of the best players not on the dodger roster and speculate if and when.

Yea. I hear ya. Silly me. Gotta quit smoking that chit.

You make a point i used- Dodgers and recycle. I used a 4-5 year window as a measure of new faces. I was attempting to time it out with a JJ like event.

I’m sure perpetual reload/all young un locked up players are on the Sodgers radar. As you noted-

I'm not attacking you, I'm just pointing out the futility of the idea. If you have anyone that is off contract whether its 1-2-3-4-5 years from now. if they are a good player, they are a target of the Dodgers. It's that simple. The only thing that doesn't make them a target is if they have people in said players 1A 1B position. Hence, you cold make 50-60 of these threads and just start titling them "Skenes to Dodgers" "Elly to Dodgers" "Bobby Witt Jr. to Dodgers."

Silly.

[sikeston bulldog2]

The club can try to extend, “lock up” anyone they want…

but the players and their reps have all the power…

If your timeline on Dodger moves is correct…..you can be sure the player and rep know that as well…

there is no "timeline" for dodger baseball currently. which is the issue with baseball in general. It's not rebuild, they are always in perpetual reload. The reason it works for them is they have been solid in the drafting/minor leagues so they can constantly make trades and signings with their infinite money because they have prospects that people are willing to deal for. If they could only make signings, things get a little more hairy.

this thread in general is silly. You could make 50-60 of them of the best players not on the dodger roster and speculate if and when.

Yea. I hear ya. Silly me. Gotta quit smoking that chit.

You make a point i used- Dodgers and recycle. I used a 4-5 year window as a measure of new faces. I was attempting to time it out with a JJ like event.

I’m sure perpetual reload/all young un locked up players are on the Sodgers radar. As you noted-

I'm not attacking you, I'm just pointing out the futility of the idea. If you have anyone that is off contract whether its 1-2-3-4-5 years from now. if they are a good player, they are a target of the Dodgers. It's that simple. The only thing that doesn't make them a target is if they have people in said players 1A 1B position. Hence, you cold make 50-60 of these threads and just start titling them "Skenes to Dodgers" "Elly to Dodgers" "Bobby Witt Jr. to Dodgers."

Silly.

I hear ya. Nature of my character I think is that way. A way of promoting conversation. It is a slippery slope at times.

Nice write.

[Bob39]

If the Cardinals are not back competing for titles in four years, it's not a rebuild, it's a failed rebuild.

This is kind of why I hate the whole 'rebuild' idea. Is is so nebulous that teams just do it forever and claim success once they finally start winning a little, regardless of how long that takes. A rebuild that takes more than three years to show significant gains is a failure, and far more rebuilds fail than succeed.

What would you say we needed to do considering the state the org was in.

If you agree that major changes were needed, then it needs a name. That’s where rebuild gained its popularity.

I would say that we needed better players. However, there is little evidence that being bad for a long period of times results in getting better players. You get higher draft picks which helps to an extent, but the baseball draft is such a (bleep) shoot. What you really need is great player development and a willingness to go outside of the organization to supplement what you have. My point is that some people seem to look at it like penance. If you accept lousy baseball for awhile, you will automatically be rewarded with success. This thought process has failed more than it has succeeded.

TLDR; you don't need to be a bad team to acquire good players. It doesn't always even help.

[sikeston bulldog2]

If the Cardinals are not back competing for titles in four years, it's not a rebuild, it's a failed rebuild.

This is kind of why I hate the whole 'rebuild' idea. Is is so nebulous that teams just do it forever and claim success once they finally start winning a little, regardless of how long that takes. A rebuild that takes more than three years to show significant gains is a failure, and far more rebuilds fail than succeed.

What would you say we needed to do considering the state the org was in.

If you agree that major changes were needed, then it needs a name. That’s where rebuild gained its popularity.

I would say that we needed better players. However, there is little evidence that being bad for a long period of times results in getting better players. You get higher draft picks which helps to an extent, but the baseball draft is such a (bleep) shoot. What you really need is great player development and a willingness to go outside of the organization to supplement what you have. My point is that some people seem to look at it like penance. If you accept lousy baseball for awhile, you will automatically be rewarded with success. This thought process has failed more than it has succeeded.

TLDR; you don't need to be a bad team to acquire good players. It doesn't always even help.

Ok I see. Seems accepting bad baseball would eventually develop a thought process that accepts such performance. Then, as you noted, it has failed often.

[ecleme22]

Who knows.

Sometimes players get extensions. Sometimes they don’t. Sometimes they’re traded, sometimes the play until they are a FA.

Maybe by 2030, JJ is way down this list of priorities, and he’s traded.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Who knows.

Sometimes players get extensions. Sometimes they don’t. Sometimes they’re traded, sometimes the play until they are a FA.

Maybe by 2030, JJ is way down this list of priorities, and he’s traded.

Of course you are right. Who knows. I just wondered if this great new rebuild, included these long term young extension. Then I simply use Dodgers as the bully.

That’s all. Curious what the new model includes other than old vet moves, and no new signings or trades in the near future.

[Jatalk]

Good morning.

This is a future thread.

We are in a rebuild. I use that as a given to this discussion. Most here have never experienced a rebuild to the core. So we don’t know all the new things that might happen. Lockups. New to us. We are on the cusp of three lock ups- Walker Winn JJ

JJ has five years till FA. The Dodgers restock every 4-5 years. The Dodgers have an aging core. They may restock once before JJ is free. They will come looking.

I read on AI today there have been discussions of an extension.

Thoughts. For JJ to stay, without an extension, the Cardinals need to be a league power. He would reup with Cards maybe. Stay with the group. Win here.

With an extension, he’s locked up. I feel he is playing well and projects to continue.

The reason I use the Dodgers, is, they rebuild. They have the money, pedigree, and leadership.

Another reason to lock him up.

First I’m not for extending Walker ……yet. Honestly I don’t like these early extensions at all.

That said how long do you extend Winn and JJ in your opinion? It seems like 10 years is sort of the norm on these young guys. I think both are 24. Winn is free agent 2030 and JJ 2031. I bring up the age because I read an article which I can’t find now noting age is an issue.

Also I don’t know what 2027 is going to bring with the labor issue.

Neither Winn or JJ is going to extend past 30 or 31 years of age.
So you are looking at around a 6 year deal for each.

The trend is longer

[Poojols]

Let's hope the rules change by then so the Dodgers don't have the ridiculous advantage that they have now.

[RamFan08NY]

No, this is not a “future thread.”
It is click bait.
Be better. Change the title.

Of course it’s an eye catcher. I spelled the intent out. I wanted to know if the rebuild includes buyouts.

No Dog. Its a stupid thread, stupid title. This has the makes of an "im bored" thread that crashed, at high velocity into the side of a mountain.

[sikeston bulldog2]

No, this is not a “future thread.”
It is click bait.
Be better. Change the title.

Of course it’s an eye catcher. I spelled the intent out. I wanted to know if the rebuild includes buyouts.

No Dog. Its a stupid thread, stupid title. This has the makes of an "im bored" thread that crashed, at high velocity into the side of a mountain.

Crash and Burn I guess. Bad attempt at meaningful dialoge. In the grasp of boredom.

[greyhawk]

No, this is not a “future thread.”
It is click bait.
Be better. Change the title.

Of course it’s an eye catcher. I spelled the intent out. I wanted to know if the rebuild includes buyouts.

No Dog. Its a stupid thread, stupid title. This has the makes of an "im bored" thread that crashed, at high velocity into the side of a mountain.

Crash and Burn I guess. Bad attempt at meaningful dialoge. In the grasp of boredom.

good intent dog -- perhaps bad execution. I don't think you extend anyone for that long until you are absolutely certain of what you have!! Bobby Witt Jr type of certain?? That call is for the team but unless you get extremely lucky you don't extend 4 guys for 5+ years ever again unless you can afford to use bags of cash to burn for heat during the winter ie dodgers, mets and others.