Fans live in a fantasy world

[AnExParrot]

I'm shocked by the lack of knowledge some post. This will not be a good team. This was strictly a salary dump. If not, other teams would also be doing what the Cardinals are calling a re-build.

I'm not buying in the so-called re-build, and I imagine by ticket sales others are not also.

Houston, Atlanta and Philadelphia have all gone down a similar path and been successful on the other side.

And the Cubs did it just to break a pesky 100+ year "curse."

[Carp4Cy]

I'm shocked by the lack of knowledge some post. This will not be a good team. This was strictly a salary dump. If not, other teams would also be doing what the Cardinals are calling a re-build.

I'm not buying in the so-called re-build, and I imagine by ticket sales others are not also.

Houston, Atlanta and Philadelphia have all gone down a similar path and been successful on the other side.

That might prove to be a different era with different rules and talent economies than what we are heading into. What if we are attempting an outdated 10+ year old strategy that due to the runup in prospect prices and coming changes in talent years of control/ arb salaries, lottery rules etc, proves to be a lot less effective in the 2nd half of the 2020's?

Teams that aren't rebuilding are still turning out MiLB prospects into MLB stars as quickly or more quickly than we have and likely will.

We could have drafted Konnor Griffin. Time will tell who creates more WAR year by year, but right now the analysts like him even more than JJW.

The increase in top FA prices ensures that the Cardinals have to start from a deep base of cost controlled talent.

The cost controls might start to go away a lot more quickly as a tradeoff to get a salary cap. What if FA is shortened from 6 years to 4 years of control as in other sports? What if rookie contracts become a much higher % of market rates instead of a 700K min wage for 3+ years? What if teams have to become more indifferent to homegrown vs veteran signings due to shrinking pay differentials?

What if top FA contracts get shorter in years as a tradeoff to AAV, allowing teams to invest short term and go for it without committing 10 years to a Pujols/Ohtani type. Tucker just signed for 4 years, not the 9-12 that was expected. Saurez for 1 year. Even Smaller market teams like the Reds can play in a 1 year market. The Red Sox just obtained pretty good SP and 1B for 1-2 remaining contract years at very attractive net payroll rates for relatively minimal prospect costs. Aggressive and smart trading for the right vets can still transform a roster quickly in this market if done right.

The latest trends keep changing away from what worked for the Phillies and Astros 11 years ago and will probably continue to do so.

[OldRed]

I'm shocked by the lack of knowledge some post. This will not be a good team. This was strictly a salary dump. If not, other teams would also be doing what the Cardinals are calling a re-build.

I'm not buying in the so-called re-build, and I imagine by ticket sales others are not also.

Houston, Atlanta and Philadelphia have all gone down a similar path and been successful on the other side.

No, they didn't. They spent some $$$

Houston's payroll was 20th or lower for six straight seasons, Atlanta's was 19th or lower for four straight, and Philadelphia was 18th or lower for three straight.

And all three started winning when they spent $$$.

[mattmitchl44]

I'm shocked by the lack of knowledge some post. This will not be a good team. This was strictly a salary dump. If not, other teams would also be doing what the Cardinals are calling a re-build.

I'm not buying in the so-called re-build, and I imagine by ticket sales others are not also.

Houston, Atlanta and Philadelphia have all gone down a similar path and been successful on the other side.

That might prove to be a different era with different rules and talent economies than what we are heading into. What if we are attempting an outdated 10+ year old strategy that due to the runup in prospect prices and coming changes in talent years of control/ arb salaries, lottery rules etc, proves to be a lot less effective in the 2nd half of the 2020's?

Teams that aren't rebuilding are still turning out MiLB prospects into MLB stars as quickly or more quickly than we have and likely will.

We could have drafted Konnor Griffin. Time will tell who creates more WAR year by year, but right now the analysts like him even more than JJW.

The increase in top FA prices ensures that the Cardinals have to start from a deep base of cost controlled talent.

The cost controls might start to go away a lot more quickly as a tradeoff to get a salary cap. What if FA is shortened from 6 years to 4 years of control as in other sports? What if rookie contracts become a much higher % of market rates instead of a 700K min wage for 3+ years? What if teams have to become more indifferent to homegrown vs veteran signings due to shrinking pay differentials?

What if top FA contracts get shorter in years as a tradeoff to AAV, allowing teams to invest short term and go for it without committing 10 years to a Pujols/Ohtani type. Tucker just signed for 4 years, not the 9-12 that was expected. Saurez for 1 year. Even Smaller market teams like the Reds can play in a 1 year market. The Red Sox just obtained pretty good SP and 1B for 1-2 remaining contract years at very attractive net payroll rates for relatively minimal prospect costs. Aggressive and smart trading for the right vets can still transform a roster quickly in this market if done right.

The latest trends keep changing away from what worked for the Phillies and Astros 11 years ago and will probably continue to do so.

If/when anything changes with the next CBA we'll have to see what the impact is. For now, under the current framework, they are taking the right approach.

[Ozziesfan41]

I'm shocked by the lack of knowledge some post. This will not be a good team. This was strictly a salary dump. If not, other teams would also be doing what the Cardinals are calling a re-build.

I'm not buying in the so-called re-build, and I imagine by ticket sales others are not also.

Whoever thought the cardinals were winning anything the last three years were living in fantasy land lol

[AnExParrot]

I'm shocked by the lack of knowledge some post. This will not be a good team. This was strictly a salary dump. If not, other teams would also be doing what the Cardinals are calling a re-build.

I'm not buying in the so-called re-build, and I imagine by ticket sales others are not also.

Whoever thought the cardinals were winning anything the last three years were living in fantasy land lol

And those thinking they can simply spend their way to being the class of the NL again are too.

[Ozziesfan41]

I'm shocked by the lack of knowledge some post. This will not be a good team. This was strictly a salary dump. If not, other teams would also be doing what the Cardinals are calling a re-build.

I'm not buying in the so-called re-build, and I imagine by ticket sales others are not also.

Whoever thought the cardinals were winning anything the last three years were living in fantasy land lol

And those thinking they can simply spend their way to being the class of the NL again are too.

That’s a big +1 and the just trade burly and a catching prospect for tatis jr and Donovan for woo delusional people

[An Old Friend]

I'm shocked by the lack of knowledge some post. This will not be a good team. This was strictly a salary dump. If not, other teams would also be doing what the Cardinals are calling a re-build.

I'm not buying in the so-called re-build, and I imagine by ticket sales others are not also.

Houston, Atlanta and Philadelphia have all gone down a similar path and been successful on the other side.

3 large markets. St. Louis isn't that.

Cardinals aren't rebuilding. They're resetting to a small market model.

[Bushiro]

I'm shocked by the lack of knowledge some post. This will not be a good team. This was strictly a salary dump. If not, other teams would also be doing what the Cardinals are calling a re-build.

I'm not buying in the so-called re-build, and I imagine by ticket sales others are not also.

Houston, Atlanta and Philadelphia have all gone down a similar path and been successful on the other side.

3 large markets. St. Louis isn't that.

Cardinals aren't rebuilding. They're resetting to a small market model.

That's the number 1 question in my opinion...are we seeing a rebuild to build a nice young cost controlled core...then push the payroll back up to the 170 ..180 million range...or is this a reset for a smaller market model like you believe it is

[An Old Friend]

I'm shocked by the lack of knowledge some post. This will not be a good team. This was strictly a salary dump. If not, other teams would also be doing what the Cardinals are calling a re-build.

I'm not buying in the so-called re-build, and I imagine by ticket sales others are not also.

You make a good point- reference fantasy. How many posters here play fantasy baseball. I’d say about even.

Do you think their options differ much from those who don’t or have never played.

Be a nice case study.

How many Cardinals are you drafting/starting on your fantasy team? Excluding Donovan, assuming he's traded.

Here is who I'll have on my radar:
Ivan Herrera - he'll probably go relatively high for catchers... maybe top-5
JJ Wetherholt
Matthew Liberatore / Michael McGreevy - back end rotation guys (maybe 5/6/7 SP types). I could see being happy with Liberatore as my 4th
Whoever closes... Svanson?

[An Old Friend]

I'm shocked by the lack of knowledge some post. This will not be a good team. This was strictly a salary dump. If not, other teams would also be doing what the Cardinals are calling a re-build.

I'm not buying in the so-called re-build, and I imagine by ticket sales others are not also.

Houston, Atlanta and Philadelphia have all gone down a similar path and been successful on the other side.

3 large markets. St. Louis isn't that.

Cardinals aren't rebuilding. They're resetting to a small market model.

That's the number 1 question in my opinion...are we seeing a rebuild to build a nice young cost controlled core...then push the payroll back up to the 170 ..180 million range...or is this a reset for a smaller market model like you believe it is

The payroll range you speak to... is a number that we don't know right now and won't know until after the CBA. $180MM could very well be in the bottom-10... so that's not really the number to map to.

The Cardinals ability to spend has been tied to the higher value of their media deals compared to other small market teams + gate revenue.

That delta on the media deal is now gone... so I expect that they'll spend relative to other small market teams. They won't have the $30-50MM spend advantage that they used to have any longer.

[hugeCardfan]

I'm shocked by the lack of knowledge some post. This will not be a good team. This was strictly a salary dump. If not, other teams would also be doing what the Cardinals are calling a re-build.

I'm not buying in the so-called re-build, and I imagine by ticket sales others are not also.

What? We aren't winning this year? Dam.n you Red; you're sucking all the hopes and dreams right out of my soul.... Can't we just win a few games. Once a week or something? You're no fun.

Couldn't we just get a little excited to see JJ play this year. What about one or two pitching surprises? Can't I watch the farm teams with a little hope. You're no fun at all...you curmudgeon you....

I knew Cranny would stop by and comment . . . LOL!

Did he? Try to stay on track and quitcherdoddering. You've got dreams to squash.

[OldRed]

I'm shocked by the lack of knowledge some post. This will not be a good team. This was strictly a salary dump. If not, other teams would also be doing what the Cardinals are calling a re-build.

I'm not buying in the so-called re-build, and I imagine by ticket sales others are not also.

What? We aren't winning this year? Dam.n you Red; you're sucking all the hopes and dreams right out of my soul.... Can't we just win a few games. Once a week or something? You're no fun.

Couldn't we just get a little excited to see JJ play this year. What about one or two pitching surprises? Can't I watch the farm teams with a little hope. You're no fun at all...you curmudgeon you....

I knew Cranny would stop by and comment . . . LOL!

Did he? Try to stay on track and quitcherdoddering. You've got dreams to squash.

I believe you mean quash.

[Goldfan]

I'm shocked by the lack of knowledge some post. This will not be a good team. This was strictly a salary dump. If not, other teams would also be doing what the Cardinals are calling a re-build.

I'm not buying in the so-called re-build, and I imagine by ticket sales others are not also.

Whoever thought the cardinals were winning anything the last three years were living in fantasy land lol

Oz, do you remember where this all started in 2023?
The WBC……half the team was off traveling around NOT working out with the Cards>>>I said it was the stupidest thing going….so once again called that one
I said the balanced schedule would destroy all the easy series wins that eliminated Cards losing streaks all those years…..called that one.
Then the bottom fell out
And the backlash I received then was about the same idiocy I’m receiving now concerning this REBUILD

[mattmitchl44]

I'm shocked by the lack of knowledge some post. This will not be a good team. This was strictly a salary dump. If not, other teams would also be doing what the Cardinals are calling a re-build.

I'm not buying in the so-called re-build, and I imagine by ticket sales others are not also.

Houston, Atlanta and Philadelphia have all gone down a similar path and been successful on the other side.

No, they didn't. They spent some $$$

Houston's payroll was 20th or lower for six straight seasons, Atlanta's was 19th or lower for four straight, and Philadelphia was 18th or lower for three straight.

And all three started winning when they spent $$$.

After they added young talent.

[mattmitchl44]

I'm shocked by the lack of knowledge some post. This will not be a good team. This was strictly a salary dump. If not, other teams would also be doing what the Cardinals are calling a re-build.

I'm not buying in the so-called re-build, and I imagine by ticket sales others are not also.

Houston, Atlanta and Philadelphia have all gone down a similar path and been successful on the other side.

3 large markets. St. Louis isn't that.

Cardinals aren't rebuilding. They're resetting to a small market model.

At this point we don't know where the Cardinals spending will rebound to in ~2030.

If it remains low like during the rebuild, then developing young talent is even more important.

If it rebounds to about 12th in MLB, then they will have the young talent in place to fill in with players they can add with that payroll.

If it rebounds even more than that, all the better.

I expect the second scenario.

But any conceivable path involves them doing what they are doing now.