What is Toronto going to do?

[TheJackBurton]

I knew that team would never win anything with Matthews during his 70 goal season - he played hurt to hit that number and then missed games in the playoffs because he was too hurt to play.

He reminds me of Brett Hull a little bit. Huge numbers but really beat served when he’s surrounded by good supporting players as opposed to having to be the man. Hull couldn’t win until he went to Dallas and Detroit where he was playing 2nd line minutes in some instances and wasn’t so heavily relied upon to do it all himself.

Not that I’m saying Toronto should or would trade Matthews…

Hull not winning had very little to do with Hull. He was a PPG and above player for most of his playoffs with the Blues. I didn't get to witness the early days, but those late 90s Blues teams had bad luck with Goalie stuff. And the infamous Gretzky play. Not to mention some goofy roster moves when the team was entering their prime. Hully got caught in a whirlwind of bad luck. Could you imagine what it would have looked like if we wouldn't have had Keenan? Pronger and big Al come in. Demitra on roster. The Blues would have been cooking in 98-99. They should have been cooking in 94-95 from what I'm told.

As much as I despise the man, Pronger was a Blue because of Keenan. Not sure if Shanahan would've been traded being so popular. But fun to think how dynamic the Blues would've been with Shanny staying long term.

If we had kept Shanny odds are he never plays a game in a Red Wing uniform. If they don't get Shanny, as he was their missing piece, that Red Wings dynasty may never get off the ground.

[TheJackBurton]

I knew that team would never win anything with Matthews during his 70 goal season - he played hurt to hit that number and then missed games in the playoffs because he was too hurt to play.

He reminds me of Brett Hull a little bit. Huge numbers but really beat served when he’s surrounded by good supporting players as opposed to having to be the man. Hull couldn’t win until he went to Dallas and Detroit where he was playing 2nd line minutes in some instances and wasn’t so heavily relied upon to do it all himself.

Not that I’m saying Toronto should or would trade Matthews…

Hull not winning had very little to do with Hull. He was a PPG and above player for most of his playoffs with the Blues. I didn't get to witness the early days, but those late 90s Blues teams had bad luck with Goalie stuff. And the infamous Gretzky play. Not to mention some goofy roster moves when the team was entering their prime. Hully got caught in a whirlwind of bad luck. Could you imagine what it would have looked like if we wouldn't have had Keenan? Pronger and big Al come in. Demitra on roster. The Blues would have been cooking in 98-99. They should have been cooking in 94-95 from what I'm told.

For Toronto, I have no idea what they will do.
But for the Blues, it all goes way back to the Mike Shanahanegins' tampering with Stevens followed by doing so with Brendan Shanahan, trading Oates, hiring Keenan. All of that and without a 1st-Round draft pick for 5 straight years leaves you chasing your tail for a long time. It's practically miraculous that the Blues won the President's Trophy in 2000. But the organization still was churning underneath.
By the way, after Craig Janney, if you don't count two months of Gretzky, the only elite Center we have had since then is Pierre Turgeon.

Going after Stevens was in fact the correct move, going after Shanahan without insuring you had the proper compensation was the wrong move.

Oates forced his way out because of his constant contract demands and crying like a (A female canine animal, especially a dog) about his pay.

Yep you are correct about our center situation however. Doug Weight should have been that but his hip injury prevented him being for us what he was in Edmonton.

Yes. Good point that you clarify. Stevens was an outstanding move, and it was within the boundaries of the rules. It was indeed the Shanahan signing situation that caused the league to punish us by forcing us to give Stevens to New Jersey.
And yes you are correct about the Oates situation. He signed a contract, that's life...his agent let him down, then kept Oates stirred up. It became a BIG, bad distraction. I was frustrated with Oates at the time and completely understood the unfair stance his agent and he were taking. It would have been a bad precedent for any team to cave on. And when we traded for Janney, that was a fantastic get...EXCEPT the chemistry with Hull wasn't there and the fan reaction was understandably bad too. Janney's stick-handling was almost on an Alexei Kovalev level, but Oates was a better skater. It was a tough situation. I'm still not sure how else the Blues could have resolved the issue with Oates and his agent. Intangibles can really be important and so hard to quantify.

The Oates one really stings because there's no telling what Hulls numbers would have looked like had he been here the rest of Hulls time here.

They were just on another level when they were on the ice together and no one could stop them.

[leedog68]

People forget that for Hull's first big season, his even strength center was not Oates. It was Peter Zezel.

[TheJackBurton]

People forget that for Hull's first big season, his even strength center was not Oates. It was Peter Zezel.

Yep, I remember Zezel, but Hull carried him. When Hull and Oates were joined that put Hull is a different stratosphere.

[blues2112]

People forget that for Hull's first big season, his even strength center was not Oates. It was Peter Zezel.

Yep, I remember Zezel, but Hull carried him. When Hull and Oates were joined that put Hull is a different stratosphere.

Hull scored 41 goals in 1988-89 when Blues had Zezel, but not Oates.

Oates joined Blues for 1989-90 season, and Hull scored 72 goals; Zezel was traded summer of 1990. Hull then scored by 86 in 1990-91 and 70 in 1991-92 (Oates played 54 games that season before being traded February 1992.).

[hockey jedi]

I would love to see Toronto win it this year if the Blues or Buffalo don't win it. I'm a Berube fan. The fans have been suffering a long time.

[callitwhatyouwant]

I knew that team would never win anything with Matthews during his 70 goal season - he played hurt to hit that number and then missed games in the playoffs because he was too hurt to play.

He reminds me of Brett Hull a little bit. Huge numbers but really beat served when he’s surrounded by good supporting players as opposed to having to be the man. Hull couldn’t win until he went to Dallas and Detroit where he was playing 2nd line minutes in some instances and wasn’t so heavily relied upon to do it all himself.

Not that I’m saying Toronto should or would trade Matthews…

Hull not winning had very little to do with Hull. He was a PPG and above player for most of his playoffs with the Blues. I didn't get to witness the early days, but those late 90s Blues teams had bad luck with Goalie stuff. And the infamous Gretzky play. Not to mention some goofy roster moves when the team was entering their prime. Hully got caught in a whirlwind of bad luck. Could you imagine what it would have looked like if we wouldn't have had Keenan? Pronger and big Al come in. Demitra on roster. The Blues would have been cooking in 98-99. They should have been cooking in 94-95 from what I'm told.

As much as I despise the man, Pronger was a Blue because of Keenan. Not sure if Shanahan would've been traded being so popular. But fun to think how dynamic the Blues would've been with Shanny staying long term.

No doubt, I was more alluding to Hull really wanted to extend because he liked St. Louis and didn't want to play anywhere else and Keenan made it as difficult as possible to the point where he just said F you, I'm tired of putting up with you and, well the rest is history.

[hockey jedi]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ellio ... 5ab0&ei=24

This idiot thinks the Blues should send Thomas to the Leafs for Easton Cowan, a 2028 first round pick and goalie Dennis Hildeby. I don't believe that is fair market value, but I understand why he wants it for the Maple Leafs. I propose Knies and Cowan for Thomas.

[IsDurbanodoingtime]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ellio ... 5ab0&ei=24

This idiot thinks the Blues should send Thomas to the Leafs for Easton Cowan, a 2028 first round pick and goalie Dennis Hildeby. I don't believe that is fair market value, but I understand why he wants it for the Maple Leafs. I propose Knies and Cowan for Thomas.

Still not enough.
Their media and fans are just ridiculous which makes their meltdowns all the more fun to watch.
Remember they drove out Steen, Phil Kessel, Kadri among others- all won cups with their next teams.

[PPG]

Good info from Blues2112-
Hull & Oates really only played on the same line for one and a half years.
Hull scored 72 goals playing with Zezel in 1989-90 and Zezel had 33 goals and only 39 assists.
Oates & Hull got lots of power play time together, though

[blues2112]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ellio ... 5ab0&ei=24

This idiot thinks the Blues should send Thomas to the Leafs for Easton Cowan, a 2028 first round pick and goalie Dennis Hildeby. I don't believe that is fair market value, but I understand why he wants it for the Maple Leafs. I propose Knies and Cowan for Thomas.

Still not enough.
Their media and fans are just ridiculous which makes their meltdowns all the more fun to watch.
Remember they drove out Steen, Phil Kessel, Kadri among others- all won cups with their next teams.

Bold: That will never happen. Blues would win that easily, and no evidence The Thomas waives NTC.

Italics: Hardly think management relies on "fans" and "media" for hockey or business advice.

[blues2112]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ellio ... 5ab0&ei=24

This idiot thinks the Blues should send Thomas to the Leafs for Easton Cowan, a 2028 first round pick and goalie Dennis Hildeby. I don't believe that is fair market value, but I understand why he wants it for the Maple Leafs. I propose Knies and Cowan for Thomas.

Still not enough.
Their media and fans are just ridiculous which makes their meltdowns all the more fun to watch.
Remember they drove out Steen, Phil Kessel, Kadri among others- all won cups with their next teams.

Bold: That will never happen. Blues would win that easily, and no evidence The Thomas waives NTC.

Italics: Hardly think management relies on "fans" and "media" for hockey or business advice.

[IsDurbanodoingtime]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ellio ... 5ab0&ei=24

This idiot thinks the Blues should send Thomas to the Leafs for Easton Cowan, a 2028 first round pick and goalie Dennis Hildeby. I don't believe that is fair market value, but I understand why he wants it for the Maple Leafs. I propose Knies and Cowan for Thomas.

Still not enough.
Their media and fans are just ridiculous which makes their meltdowns all the more fun to watch.
Remember they drove out Steen, Phil Kessel, Kadri among others- all won cups with their next teams.

Bold: That will never happen. Blues would win that easily, and no evidence The Thomas waives NTC.

Italics: Hardly think management relies on "fans" and "media" for hockey or business advice.

If you don't think the media market there doesn't effect management , you are with due respect being slightly naive.
It just happened with Marner. And the number one reason a lot of players want to have nothing to do with the Leafs. Once you have been labeled there, your days are numbered.

[leedog68]

Good info from Blues2112-
Hull & Oates really only played on the same line for one and a half years.
Hull scored 72 goals playing with Zezel in 1989-90 and Zezel had 33 goals and only 39 assists.
Oates & Hull got lots of power play time together, though

Yep, Hull was with Zezel and Sergio Momesso. Oates was with Paul MacLean and Rod Brind'amour.

[seattleblue]

every person who holds a grudge against Petro for choosing another team at his moment of contractual opportunity should outright HATE Adam Oates or they have waffle cone principles, just saying

[theograce]

every person who holds a grudge against Petro for choosing another team at his moment of contractual opportunity should outright HATE Adam Oates or they have waffle cone principles, just saying

I’m going to get you to love Oatsie one day over a bowl of soup. I sense you’re ready close for this shift.