No Power. Do Cards play small ball.

[nighthawk]

They need to get on base. Period. A below league average team OBA of .314 just won't cut it no matter how many speedy or contact hitting players you have.

[earp]

No Power.--No talent--

[CorneliusWolfe]

They need to get on base. Period. A below league average team OBA of .314 just won't cut it no matter how many speedy or contact hitting players you have.

Yep. OBP makes it work, or not work.

[renostl]

There is a lot of talk that the Cardinals need to copy Milwaukee and Tampa moving forward. Those two teams just so happened to finish first and second in team stolen bases last season. In terms of advanced metrics, those two teams also finished 1-2 in BsR (Base Running Runs Above Average). This metric measures stolen bases, caught stealing, extra bases taken, outs on the bases, and avoiding double plays.

The Cardinals should absolutely run more, and the metrics bear out that aggressive teams on the base paths are scoring more runs. It would also make them a more interesting team from an entertainment perspective (potential gains in attendance and TV viewership).

Winn is the one who should be running a lot more. As Rocko points out, his success rate has not been great yet, but the sprint speed and skills are there for him to develop.

I’m of the belief that Gorman and Walker will be given a lot of time as starters. While I hope they do well, my confidence is low. I also think Donny and Noot will soon be dealt, and that Baez will be ready in 2026 after 200 plate appearances at AAA. By midseason you could see a low K, good base running lineup that also plays good defense. They just won’t hit a lot of homers.

2B Torres
3B Wetherholt
DH Herrera
1B Burleson
RF Baez
LF Church
SS Winn
C Crooks
CF Scott

All fair points. We can debate forever how well it would work.

IMO a team still needs XBH. The better the pitching that you are competing against the more
difficult to string together hits. Pitching is max out SO pitching, not the pitch to contact where
SP's lasted 7+ innings. The 1982 team now would not get on base as much nor would they
benefit from what astro turf did for the ground ball. There all less hits there now.

Would it work sometimes? absolutely against some. Scoring 4-5 runs a game with this method
over 162 games it just won't happen enough. 2026 aside, the Cards need both, the team speed
that you outline here and XBH.

[JuanAgosto]

No, the Cardinals will deploy more lame and boring Oli Ball. That doofus thinks it works.

[renostl]

No, the Cardinals will deploy more lame and boring Oli Ball. That doofus thinks it works.

He flat out doesn't run enough, including hit and run, period.

The Cards speed also doesn't get OBP, period.

Fermin did .377

then ugly

Lars .325
Winn .310
VS2 .305
Saggese .299
Walker .278
Church .254

[Goldfan]

If VSII can get to a .320+ OB%, then he and JJW could let you play some small ball (forget M. Winn who's been an awful base stealer since he reached MLB (career 22 SB's vs 11 CS) Noot's not much better (career 28 SB's vs 11 CS).

I. Hererra has been very success (career 13 SB's vs 2 CS) but not sure we want him running much given his injury history.

J. Walker (18 SB's vs 7 CS) isn't a candidate either, and then you have the Clydesdales.

The real problem with this idea BDog lies w/the Manager.

Oli is one of the least creative Managers we've ever seen here so its debatable if he'd even employ a "small ball" strategy.

He should let VSII run wild, he doesn't......same w/JJW when he gets up here.

He also needs to employ more Hit & Runs, squeeze plays, ect...............he doesn't.

Until Oli's gone I don't think we'll see much "small ball" BDog.

What we really need is more POWER HITTERS (Re: HOME RUNS)!

Hopefully we have some along the way (Re: Baez and R.R.) to join Hererra.

JMO

Rock nailed it. Small ball is a thinking mans strategy game. Look at our manager

[dugoutrex]

we don't have the right players to play small either - overall, we just have a terrible rooster

69 - 93

[Goldfan]

The only player in the lineup who has any bat control skills is Donny and apparently he’s being traded.

[govman]

Good morning.

A thread takes note of our lack of power.1982 ish low. Ok. There will be nothing that we can do about that. We have who we have.

On the other hand, strategy must be our best ally. Being this is a rebuild season, new ideas seem paramount.

Do we relearn and employ more small ball concepts, not so much to win games, although the goal, but to rebuild the entire ideology. Build a perfect beast. Bottom up.

Summary- no power. Runs will be of a premium. Why not master the other arts of the game, enroute to acquiring the necessary parts in the next couple years.

Seems like a Target of Opportunity to me.

JMO - they should lean in heavy on high contact guys... they're filled with them. Herrera and Burleson are likely you're 3-4 hitters... with sub-20% strikeout rates.

Numbers in AAA:
Wetherholt - 15% K-rate, .415 OBP
Fermin - 9% K-rate, .425 OBP
Church - 10% K-rate, .400 OBP
Torres - 14% K-rate, .440 OBP

I still expect Donovan to get moved, but if he doesn't... you could potentially have7 guys out there who are really tough to strike out, so go with the high contact guys on bases approach. I won't be shocked if they start Walker at AAA which would give Church and Torres some runway, he has an option remaining. They're going to need one of Gorman or Walker to take a step forward.

This is where I'd like to see them go in 2026. I hope Fermin and one of Church or Torres gets a legitimate shot at regular playing time.

given that Oli/Mo picked up that well-traveled scrub rather then using a better hitter/fielder in Fermin., I doubt it

[pitchingandefense]

There is a lot of talk that the Cardinals need to copy Milwaukee and Tampa moving forward. Those two teams just so happened to finish first and second in team stolen bases last season. In terms of advanced metrics, those two teams also finished 1-2 in BsR (Base Running Runs Above Average). This metric measures stolen bases, caught stealing, extra bases taken, outs on the bases, and avoiding double plays.

The Cardinals should absolutely run more, and the metrics bear out that aggressive teams on the base paths are scoring more runs. It would also make them a more interesting team from an entertainment perspective (potential gains in attendance and TV viewership).

Winn is the one who should be running a lot more. As Rocko points out, his success rate has not been great yet, but the sprint speed and skills are there for him to develop.

I’m of the belief that Gorman and Walker will be given a lot of time as starters. While I hope they do well, my confidence is low. I also think Donny and Noot will soon be dealt, and that Baez will be ready in 2026 after 200 plate appearances at AAA. By midseason you could see a low K, good base running lineup that also plays good defense. They just won’t hit a lot of homers.

2B Torres
3B Wetherholt
DH Herrera
1B Burleson
RF Baez
LF Church
SS Winn
C Crooks
CF Scott

All fair points. We can debate forever how well it would work.

IMO a team still needs XBH. The better the pitching that you are competing against the more
difficult to string together hits. Pitching is max out SO pitching, not the pitch to contact where
SP's lasted 7+ innings. The 1982 team now would not get on base as much nor would they
benefit from what astro turf did for the ground ball. There all less hits there now.

Would it work sometimes? absolutely against some. Scoring 4-5 runs a game with this method
over 162 games it just won't happen enough. 2026 aside, the Cards need both, the team speed
that you outline here and XBH.

Totally agree. They would score more runs if Walker and/or Gorman find their 2023 form and deliver XBH. This lineup is just an option in the event those two flounder and they pursue a high contact lineup.

Regardless of who is in the lineup, they do need to pick up the pace on the basepaths the way teams like Milwaukee and Tampa have done.

[scoutyjones2]

No, the Cardinals will deploy more lame and boring Oli Ball. That doofus thinks it works.

What's "Oli ball" and what style does the talent lend itself to play?

[An Old Friend]

Good morning.

A thread takes note of our lack of power.1982 ish low. Ok. There will be nothing that we can do about that. We have who we have.

On the other hand, strategy must be our best ally. Being this is a rebuild season, new ideas seem paramount.

Do we relearn and employ more small ball concepts, not so much to win games, although the goal, but to rebuild the entire ideology. Build a perfect beast. Bottom up.

Summary- no power. Runs will be of a premium. Why not master the other arts of the game, enroute to acquiring the necessary parts in the next couple years.

Seems like a Target of Opportunity to me.

JMO - they should lean in heavy on high contact guys... they're filled with them. Herrera and Burleson are likely you're 3-4 hitters... with sub-20% strikeout rates.

Numbers in AAA:
Wetherholt - 15% K-rate, .415 OBP
Fermin - 9% K-rate, .425 OBP
Church - 10% K-rate, .400 OBP
Torres - 14% K-rate, .440 OBP

I still expect Donovan to get moved, but if he doesn't... you could potentially have7 guys out there who are really tough to strike out, so go with the high contact guys on bases approach. I won't be shocked if they start Walker at AAA which would give Church and Torres some runway, he has an option remaining. They're going to need one of Gorman or Walker to take a step forward.

This is where I'd like to see them go in 2026. I hope Fermin and one of Church or Torres gets a legitimate shot at regular playing time.

given that Oli/Mo picked up that well-traveled scrub rather then using a better hitter/fielder in Fermin., I doubt it

I don’t know who you’re referring to

[JuanAgosto]

No, the Cardinals will deploy more lame and boring Oli Ball. That doofus thinks it works.

What's "Oli ball" and what style does the talent lend itself to play?

Oli ball is a name a fellow poster coined for the nonsense we have witnessed the last 3 years. If you've watched, you know the philosophy. There isn't one.

[JuanAgosto]

No, the Cardinals will deploy more lame and boring Oli Ball. That doofus thinks it works.

He flat out doesn't run enough, including hit and run, period.

The Cards speed also doesn't get OBP, period.

Fermin did .377

then ugly

Lars .325
Winn .310
VS2 .305
Saggese .299
Walker .278
Church .254

I agree about the running and trying to manufacture runs. Oli is inconsistent with it. Fermin got on base, but oli wouldn't play him. And mo was a putz to keep him in Memphis so long. But I guess Vilade and Hampson were better.

[zuck698]

If VSII can get to a .320+ OB%, then he and JJW could let you play some small ball (forget M. Winn who's been an awful base stealer since he reached MLB (career 22 SB's vs 11 CS) Noot's not much better (career 28 SB's vs 11 CS).

I. Hererra has been very success (career 13 SB's vs 2 CS) but not sure we want him running much given his injury history.

J. Walker (18 SB's vs 7 CS) isn't a candidate either, and then you have the Clydesdales.

The real problem with this idea BDog lies w/the Manager.

Oli is one of the least creative Managers we've ever seen here so its debatable if he'd even employ a "small ball" strategy.

He should let VSII run wild, he doesn't......same w/JJW when he gets up here.

He also needs to employ more Hit & Runs, squeeze plays, ect...............he doesn't.

Until Oli's gone I don't think we'll see much "small ball" BDog.

What we really need is more POWER HITTERS (Re: HOME RUNS)!

Hopefully we have some along the way (Re: Baez and R.R.) to join Hererra.

JMO

Good write. My point is- this year, this year only, given as a “lost “ year, why not take the rebuild to its roots, and relearn the game for future success.

I know this is primarily a managers game plan. Running.

Question. Is there a difference between a strike out, or a throw them out. Both are outs, but….

Totally depends on what the iPads say, unfortunately.