STLtoday.com

Posted: **09 Jan 2026 13:48 pm**

Jatalk wrote: ↑09 Jan 2026 08:20 am I really want to jump on this bandwagon as I have been thinking about rebuild with youth vs rebuild with free agency.

My question is how many superstar players can the Cardinals afford? Say two to four? That leaves a lot of the roster that has to play supporting roles. I’m not sure our roster has many players capable of that at this point.

Yes superstars may get attention but in my feeble mind it really comes down to winning and competing.

The Cardinals could typically carry ~3 stars/superstars at full FA market value costs (where the cost is ~$25+ million per year).

Posted: **09 Jan 2026 14:29 pm**

Goldfan wrote: ↑09 Jan 2026 08:07 am
Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑08 Jan 2026 22:47 pm
Youboughtit wrote: ↑08 Jan 2026 22:37 pm Numerous studies across different sports have confirmed that the presence of superstar athletes significantly drives attendance at both home and away games. This phenomenon is often referred to as the "superstar effect".

Key findings on how superstars drive attendance:
Increased Demand: Superstars boost ticket sales, television ratings, and merchandise sales, generating additional revenue beyond their on-field contributions.

Away Game Impact: The impact is seen not only in home games but also in road games, as fans of opposing teams pay to see a visiting superstar play in person. This was observed with players like Michael Jordan, LeBron James, and Shaquille O'Neal in the NBA, and Shohei Ohtani in MLB.

Measurable Effects: The "Caitlin Clark effect" in women's college basketball and the WNBA is a recent example, where her presence resulted in a significant increase in attendance at her games, including a carryover effect on subsequent games. Similarly, Lionel Messi's arrival in Major League Soccer (MLS) led to a league-wide record attendance.

Beyond Performance: While team success is important, the individual star power and charisma of an athlete can attract fans regardless of a team's immediate performance or even the outcome uncertainty of a specific game.

Economic Value: The value generated by a superstar can be substantial, with one study estimating Michael Jordan's value to other NBA teams alone at approximately $53 million due to increased interest and attendance.
In essence, superstars create an "externality" that benefits the entire league by enhancing the overall entertainment value of the sport and attracting a wider audience.

Surely the Cardinals ownership is smart enough to understand this. Fans demand elite superstars in their prime. I will go see a loosing team if they have a prime Albert Pujols to watch,
Excellent post! The Cards have long had superstar players. Arenado and Goldschmidt perhaps the latest duo. Unfortunately, the pair got old really quick. Goldy also lacked the charisma of many superstars. We missed the opportunity with Bryce Harper.

It is definitely time we bring that back to STL.
Goldy and NA were exposed as mostly chokers and by their own admission “Not Leaders”

That’s not true. I’ve posted Goldies’s career playoff OPS and it is very good.

The problem was the team around them having holes, and Ollie being an utterly incompetent rookie manager in 2022.

Posted: **09 Jan 2026 14:44 pm**

Yes, this is a major problem. We need one or more superstars, and we need to make a long-term commitment to them to solidify fan loyalty from season to season. The game is human and these factors do matter.

And yet some posters want us to follow a Billy Beane/Tampa Bay type no stars approach and just go as cheap as possible across the board.

Even if that produces some wins some years with an iPad paint by numbers approach, I oppose that idea because it does not draw fans or revenue. Tampa Bay once had attendance under 19,000 for a playoff game.

There are much better ways to build a winner. And a lot more fun in both championship and second place seasons

Posted: **09 Jan 2026 14:51 pm**

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jan 2026 14:44 pm Yes, this is a major problem. We need one or more superstars, and we need to make a long-term commitment to them to solidify fan loyalty from season to season. The game is human and these factors do matter.

Yes, they will - eventually - have to sign 1, 2, 3 FAs who are "stars" or "superstars." They just don't have to do it this offseason.

Develop the necessary core of young, cost controlled players and THEN start adding "stars" or "superstars" via FA signings.

Posted: **09 Jan 2026 15:33 pm**

Jatalk wrote: ↑09 Jan 2026 08:20 am I really want to jump on this bandwagon as I have been thinking about rebuild with youth vs rebuild with free agency.

My question is how many superstar players can the Cardinals afford? Say two to four? That leaves a lot of the roster that has to play supporting roles. I’m not sure our roster has many players capable of that at this point.

Yes superstars may get attention but in my feeble mind it really comes down to winning and competing.

Who have they tried to get? #1 farm system should be able to aquire a star position player via trade and extend him.

Posted: **09 Jan 2026 15:35 pm**

C-Unit wrote: ↑09 Jan 2026 07:45 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑09 Jan 2026 05:37 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑08 Jan 2026 22:56 pm
Youboughtit wrote: ↑08 Jan 2026 22:37 pm Numerous studies across different sports have confirmed that the presence of superstar athletes significantly drives attendance at both home and away games. This phenomenon is often referred to as the "superstar effect".

Key findings on how superstars drive attendance:
Increased Demand: Superstars boost ticket sales, television ratings, and merchandise sales, generating additional revenue beyond their on-field contributions.

Away Game Impact: The impact is seen not only in home games but also in road games, as fans of opposing teams pay to see a visiting superstar play in person. This was observed with players like Michael Jordan, LeBron James, and Shaquille O'Neal in the NBA, and Shohei Ohtani in MLB.

Measurable Effects: The "Caitlin Clark effect" in women's college basketball and the WNBA is a recent example, where her presence resulted in a significant increase in attendance at her games, including a carryover effect on subsequent games. Similarly, Lionel Messi's arrival in Major League Soccer (MLS) led to a league-wide record attendance.

Beyond Performance: While team success is important, the individual star power and charisma of an athlete can attract fans regardless of a team's immediate performance or even the outcome uncertainty of a specific game.

Economic Value: The value generated by a superstar can be substantial, with one study estimating Michael Jordan's value to other NBA teams alone at approximately $53 million due to increased interest and attendance.
In essence, superstars create an "externality" that benefits the entire league by enhancing the overall entertainment value of the sport and attracting a wider audience.

Surely the Cardinals ownership is smart enough to understand this. Fans demand elite superstars in their prime. I will go see a loosing team if they have a prime Albert Pujols to watch,
Oh yea all true statements you have to have a face of the franchise who is a legitimate star and the cardinals sure don’t have it right now even though I hear they have a Unicorn
There sir is an over arching point. No face of franchise. Critical.
Wetherholt is the highest touted player, an all-star to be. Winn looks like the one who could turn into a long-tenured fan favorite in time. A franchise SS, he could become the face.

They will still eventually need to bring in a star player from the outside in the same manner they brought in veterans like Arenado or Goldschmidt. Maybe in 2 or 3 years see what type of veterans are on the trade block.

Wetherholt has potential but not proven. Winn is a below average hitter at SS with elite defense. They need a 30-40HR 100RBI player. A top 3 hitter at his position. Winn will never be that.

Posted: **09 Jan 2026 15:37 pm**

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑09 Jan 2026 14:51 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jan 2026 14:44 pm Yes, this is a major problem. We need one or more superstars, and we need to make a long-term commitment to them to solidify fan loyalty from season to season. The game is human and these factors do matter.
Yes, they will - eventually - have to sign 1, 2, 3 FAs who are "stars" or "superstars." They just don't have to do it this offseason.

Develop the necessary core of young, cost controlled players and THEN start adding "stars" or "superstars" via FA signings.

Well they need to do it when they want fans to attend games. That’s what the post was about. The longer they wait the more $ they will loose

Posted: **09 Jan 2026 15:40 pm**

Youboughtit wrote: ↑09 Jan 2026 15:35 pm
C-Unit wrote: ↑09 Jan 2026 07:45 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑09 Jan 2026 05:37 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑08 Jan 2026 22:56 pm
Youboughtit wrote: ↑08 Jan 2026 22:37 pm Numerous studies across different sports have confirmed that the presence of superstar athletes significantly drives attendance at both home and away games. This phenomenon is often referred to as the "superstar effect".

Key findings on how superstars drive attendance:
Increased Demand: Superstars boost ticket sales, television ratings, and merchandise sales, generating additional revenue beyond their on-field contributions.

Away Game Impact: The impact is seen not only in home games but also in road games, as fans of opposing teams pay to see a visiting superstar play in person. This was observed with players like Michael Jordan, LeBron James, and Shaquille O'Neal in the NBA, and Shohei Ohtani in MLB.

Measurable Effects: The "Caitlin Clark effect" in women's college basketball and the WNBA is a recent example, where her presence resulted in a significant increase in attendance at her games, including a carryover effect on subsequent games. Similarly, Lionel Messi's arrival in Major League Soccer (MLS) led to a league-wide record attendance.

Beyond Performance: While team success is important, the individual star power and charisma of an athlete can attract fans regardless of a team's immediate performance or even the outcome uncertainty of a specific game.

Economic Value: The value generated by a superstar can be substantial, with one study estimating Michael Jordan's value to other NBA teams alone at approximately $53 million due to increased interest and attendance.
In essence, superstars create an "externality" that benefits the entire league by enhancing the overall entertainment value of the sport and attracting a wider audience.

Surely the Cardinals ownership is smart enough to understand this. Fans demand elite superstars in their prime. I will go see a loosing team if they have a prime Albert Pujols to watch,
Oh yea all true statements you have to have a face of the franchise who is a legitimate star and the cardinals sure don’t have it right now even though I hear they have a Unicorn
There sir is an over arching point. No face of franchise. Critical.
Wetherholt is the highest touted player, an all-star to be. Winn looks like the one who could turn into a long-tenured fan favorite in time. A franchise SS, he could become the face.

They will still eventually need to bring in a star player from the outside in the same manner they brought in veterans like Arenado or Goldschmidt. Maybe in 2 or 3 years see what type of veterans are on the trade block.
Wetherholt has potential but not proven. Winn is a below average hitter at SS with elite defense. They need a 30-40HR 100RBI player. A top 3 hitter at his position. Winn will never be that.

All I'm saying is Winn has the potential to be that "face" that gets plastered on every billboard around St Louis. Already pretty likeable by the fanbase. I am with you he's not a star, but SS is a position that can be seen as a team leader similar to Yadi at C. I could see Winn becoming a similar type of long-tenured "face" although not a true star like you say. He may be a top 3 guy on the roster in terms of WAR (defense) but ideally he's going to be about the 6th or 7th best hitter in the lineup.

Winn and Wetherholt are potential centerpiece players but an established veteran or two will be needed in addition, in the next 2 or 3 years.

Posted: **09 Jan 2026 15:57 pm**

Hey I'm all for it. Problem is how to get one? And before you say free agency none of the guys available this year is a "superstar that puts butts in the seat like Ohtani" level. Yeah, there are some really good players but none at the level where their presence increases attendance.

The true face of a franchise player is rare. I don't think signing say Tucker would become that. Really good player and we'd win more games but if the team is still a loser people aren't gonna come just because they signed him.

But I'm open. Who should they get?

Posted: **09 Jan 2026 16:20 pm**

I go and search future free agents on spotrac. You can sort by youngest age to see what stars are projected to hit free agency. Gunnar Henderson or Riley Greene for 2029. Spencer Torkelson. For 2028 there's Isaac Paredes, Adley Rutschmann, Jo Adell. Not a lot of options truly because teams tend to lock up their stars.

Look at some players in the middle age ranges. I'm trying to look for trade and sign type of candidates similar to what the organization liked to do in times past.

Honestly, I see a lot of SPs. Logan Gilbert, Shane McClanahan, Cristian Javier, Joe Ryan, Pablo Lopez, Sandy Alcantara, among the 2028 free agents. I would love to see a veteran top of rotation pitcher added to pair with Doyle.

Jose Ramirez could be a free agent for 2029.

Or maybe in a few years, do you want to take on Corey Seager from the rangers. Signed through his age 37 season (2031). Would he be healthy or productive still say for the last 4 years of that deal. Would it be worthwhile to have a veteran Seager packed into the lineup with Wetherholt, Rodriguez, Herrera, Baez etc.

Out of all this, my preference would be to target the pitchers in the 2028 class.

Posted: **09 Jan 2026 16:22 pm**

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jan 2026 14:29 pm
Goldfan wrote: ↑09 Jan 2026 08:07 am
Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑08 Jan 2026 22:47 pm
Youboughtit wrote: ↑08 Jan 2026 22:37 pm Numerous studies across different sports have confirmed that the presence of superstar athletes significantly drives attendance at both home and away games. This phenomenon is often referred to as the "superstar effect".

Key findings on how superstars drive attendance:
Increased Demand: Superstars boost ticket sales, television ratings, and merchandise sales, generating additional revenue beyond their on-field contributions.

Away Game Impact: The impact is seen not only in home games but also in road games, as fans of opposing teams pay to see a visiting superstar play in person. This was observed with players like Michael Jordan, LeBron James, and Shaquille O'Neal in the NBA, and Shohei Ohtani in MLB.

Measurable Effects: The "Caitlin Clark effect" in women's college basketball and the WNBA is a recent example, where her presence resulted in a significant increase in attendance at her games, including a carryover effect on subsequent games. Similarly, Lionel Messi's arrival in Major League Soccer (MLS) led to a league-wide record attendance.

Beyond Performance: While team success is important, the individual star power and charisma of an athlete can attract fans regardless of a team's immediate performance or even the outcome uncertainty of a specific game.

Economic Value: The value generated by a superstar can be substantial, with one study estimating Michael Jordan's value to other NBA teams alone at approximately $53 million due to increased interest and attendance.
In essence, superstars create an "externality" that benefits the entire league by enhancing the overall entertainment value of the sport and attracting a wider audience.

Surely the Cardinals ownership is smart enough to understand this. Fans demand elite superstars in their prime. I will go see a loosing team if they have a prime Albert Pujols to watch,
Excellent post! The Cards have long had superstar players. Arenado and Goldschmidt perhaps the latest duo. Unfortunately, the pair got old really quick. Goldy also lacked the charisma of many superstars. We missed the opportunity with Bryce Harper.

It is definitely time we bring that back to STL.
Goldy and NA were exposed as mostly chokers and by their own admission “Not Leaders”
That’s not true. I’ve posted Goldies’s career playoff OPS and it is very good.

The problem was the team around them having holes, and Ollie being an utterly incompetent rookie manager in 2022.

Granted he had few ops here….but did you watch the ‘22 series against the Phils? He faded through Sept in his MVP season and was rendered useless swinging at balls bouncing in front of Homeplate in the postseason

Posted: **09 Jan 2026 17:16 pm**

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑09 Jan 2026 14:51 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jan 2026 14:44 pm Yes, this is a major problem. We need one or more superstars, and we need to make a long-term commitment to them to solidify fan loyalty from season to season. The game is human and these factors do matter.
Yes, they will - eventually - have to sign 1, 2, 3 FAs who are "stars" or "superstars." They just don't have to do it this offseason.

Develop the necessary core of young, cost controlled players and THEN start adding "stars" or "superstars" via FA signings.

The counterpoint is, you have to acquire superstars when they are available, which really isn’t every year. With the right player it’s better to acquire them too early than too late.

Posted: **09 Jan 2026 17:25 pm**

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑09 Jan 2026 14:51 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jan 2026 14:44 pm Yes, this is a major problem. We need one or more superstars, and we need to make a long-term commitment to them to solidify fan loyalty from season to season. The game is human and these factors do matter.
Yes, they will - eventually - have to sign 1, 2, 3 FAs who are "stars" or "superstars." They just don't have to do it this offseason.

Develop the necessary core of young, cost controlled players and THEN start adding "stars" or "superstars" via FA signings.

Matt, we’ve been through this before….
We have a young cheap core NOW. Do you actually think any time soon Bloom farm is going to produce players better than
Herrera
JJ
Winn
Burly
Donny
Gorman(perhaps he can make more contact)
Scott(defense in CF)
Then you need a couple stars

What/Where/Who are these completely “new young core” you always refer to that are going to replace what I listed?

Posted: **09 Jan 2026 21:27 pm**

Aside from the very top tier of superstars, I think winning is more important than a superstar to drive attendance. There are a few standouts: Ohtani, maybe Pujols, maybe Judge, Fernandomania,.Caitlin Clark, Tiger, Jordan, McGwire and Sosa during the home run chase, etc.

Freddie Freeman isn't driving attendance.
ARod didn't significantly boost attendance long-term with the Texas Rangers when they signed him outside the first season
I don't think Mike Trout drove attendance during his glory years
No one cares about Bobby Witt or Jose Ramirez
Does Juan Soto or Bruce Harper bring fans to the ballpark? Maybe, maybe not.

Some of these guys are probable or possible HoF players.

Winning also isn't the only thing that matters as the Rays have shown us for years. In a strong baseball market like St Louis though, I think a winning team in a pennant race will drive attendance. Now for that to happen, it may take Wetherholt, Walker, free agents, etc to become superstars so maybe it's a bit of a chicken vs egg argument, but I think winning takes precedent.

Posted: **09 Jan 2026 21:45 pm**

How many superstars are there?

Posted: **09 Jan 2026 22:23 pm**

C-Unit wrote: ↑09 Jan 2026 15:40 pm
Youboughtit wrote: ↑09 Jan 2026 15:35 pm
C-Unit wrote: ↑09 Jan 2026 07:45 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑09 Jan 2026 05:37 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑08 Jan 2026 22:56 pm
Youboughtit wrote: ↑08 Jan 2026 22:37 pm Numerous studies across different sports have confirmed that the presence of superstar athletes significantly drives attendance at both home and away games. This phenomenon is often referred to as the "superstar effect".

Key findings on how superstars drive attendance:
Increased Demand: Superstars boost ticket sales, television ratings, and merchandise sales, generating additional revenue beyond their on-field contributions.

Away Game Impact: The impact is seen not only in home games but also in road games, as fans of opposing teams pay to see a visiting superstar play in person. This was observed with players like Michael Jordan, LeBron James, and Shaquille O'Neal in the NBA, and Shohei Ohtani in MLB.

Measurable Effects: The "Caitlin Clark effect" in women's college basketball and the WNBA is a recent example, where her presence resulted in a significant increase in attendance at her games, including a carryover effect on subsequent games. Similarly, Lionel Messi's arrival in Major League Soccer (MLS) led to a league-wide record attendance.

Beyond Performance: While team success is important, the individual star power and charisma of an athlete can attract fans regardless of a team's immediate performance or even the outcome uncertainty of a specific game.

Economic Value: The value generated by a superstar can be substantial, with one study estimating Michael Jordan's value to other NBA teams alone at approximately $53 million due to increased interest and attendance.
In essence, superstars create an "externality" that benefits the entire league by enhancing the overall entertainment value of the sport and attracting a wider audience.

Surely the Cardinals ownership is smart enough to understand this. Fans demand elite superstars in their prime. I will go see a loosing team if they have a prime Albert Pujols to watch,
Oh yea all true statements you have to have a face of the franchise who is a legitimate star and the cardinals sure don’t have it right now even though I hear they have a Unicorn
There sir is an over arching point. No face of franchise. Critical.
Wetherholt is the highest touted player, an all-star to be. Winn looks like the one who could turn into a long-tenured fan favorite in time. A franchise SS, he could become the face.

They will still eventually need to bring in a star player from the outside in the same manner they brought in veterans like Arenado or Goldschmidt. Maybe in 2 or 3 years see what type of veterans are on the trade block.
Wetherholt has potential but not proven. Winn is a below average hitter at SS with elite defense. They need a 30-40HR 100RBI player. A top 3 hitter at his position. Winn will never be that.
All I'm saying is Winn has the potential to be that "face" that gets plastered on every billboard around St Louis. Already pretty likeable by the fanbase. I am with you he's not a star, but SS is a position that can be seen as a team leader similar to Yadi at C. I could see Winn becoming a similar type of long-tenured "face" although not a true star like you say. He may be a top 3 guy on the roster in terms of WAR (defense) but ideally he's going to be about the 6th or 7th best hitter in the lineup.

Winn and Wetherholt are potential centerpiece players but an established veteran or two will be needed in addition, in the next 2 or 3 years.

Likable is not a superstar. Superstar is a consistent all star and possible HOFer. Too 10 SS hit 25 plus HR. Defense is great but superstars hit first.

STLtoday.com

The superstar effect being ignored by Cardinals.

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Re: The superstar effect being ignored by Cardinals.