Before honoring Mo they must honor Devine

[Cranny]

MO leaves this org at the absolute bottom of a 30 yr timeline…..and people are seriously thinking of honoring him???
ALL his success was due to TLR, Dunc, Luhnow…..after those fellas were gone and attrition left the team with just MO he guided the St. Louis Cardinals to an embarrassing disaster……

I'm sorry, but that's wrong, Goldfan. Mo had almost 30 years with the Cardinals, and had a hand in a number of the successes over those years. He contributed while performing a number of jobs at different levels. I'm not a fan of what transpired over the past few years, but I'll give a degree of credit where credit is due to a long standing employee.

Whatever success you wish to attribute to him….the gigantic historic hole he left the org will be his lasting legacy. This team might not avg over 20K in attendance next season…..the ultimate barometer
And it’s an undeniable fact that when he and BDW decided they were going to exclusively captain the ship it slowly took on water and has now finally sunk

Sorry, Goldfan, but I'll honor any 30 year Cardinal employee.

From 2008 through 2022, the Cardinals had 1,521 wins, the most in the National league.

[Rojo Johnson]

MO leaves this org at the absolute bottom of a 30 yr timeline…..and people are seriously thinking of honoring him???
ALL his success was due to TLR, Dunc, Luhnow…..after those fellas were gone and attrition left the team with just MO he guided the St. Louis Cardinals to an embarrassing disaster……

I'm sorry, but that's wrong, Goldfan. Mo had almost 30 years with the Cardinals, and had a hand in a number of the successes over those years. He contributed while performing a number of jobs at different levels. I'm not a fan of what transpired over the past few years, but I'll give a degree of credit where credit is due to a long standing employee.

Benedict Arnold was an excellent officer for the Continental Army before he started giving secrets to the British. He had a hand in a number of successes in the early years, he contributed to several military victories. I’m not a fan of what transpired before he was hanged, but I think we should honor him because we killed him before he could achieve his goals late in his career.

Ridiculous comparison.

Why, because you didn’t know Ben’s family? What if Moe embezzled later in his career? He grew lazy and stupid over his last 10 years. He did little to make the franchise better during that time. He couldn’t make decent contracts, make reasonable decisions, he let the minor leagues go to hell even though they were so important to the future of the organization, couldn’t recognize good players from bad. The list of his transgressions is a mile long. Screw him. And you are just being a moron because you have defended him through it all. To abandon him now, makes you look foolish. But you have been exceptionally foolish and you know it.

[WLTFE]

Oh my...now you've done it!... prepare to be admonished and chastised!

[Jatalk]

MO leaves this org at the absolute bottom of a 30 yr timeline…..and people are seriously thinking of honoring him???
ALL his success was due to TLR, Dunc, Luhnow…..after those fellas were gone and attrition left the team with just MO he guided the St. Louis Cardinals to an embarrassing disaster……

I'm sorry, but that's wrong, Goldfan. Mo had almost 30 years with the Cardinals, and had a hand in a number of the successes over those years. He contributed while performing a number of jobs at different levels. I'm not a fan of what transpired over the past few years, but I'll give a degree of credit where credit is due to a long standing employee.

Whatever success you wish to attribute to him….the gigantic historic hole he left the org will be his lasting legacy. This team might not avg over 20K in attendance next season…..the ultimate barometer
And it’s an undeniable fact that when he and BDW decided they were going to exclusively captain the ship it slowly took on water and has now finally sunk

Sorry, Goldfan, but I'll honor any 30 year Cardinal employee.

It HOF honor? Maybe have a bubblehead day but HOF?

[Goldfan]

MO leaves this org at the absolute bottom of a 30 yr timeline…..and people are seriously thinking of honoring him???
ALL his success was due to TLR, Dunc, Luhnow…..after those fellas were gone and attrition left the team with just MO he guided the St. Louis Cardinals to an embarrassing disaster……

I'm sorry, but that's wrong, Goldfan. Mo had almost 30 years with the Cardinals, and had a hand in a number of the successes over those years. He contributed while performing a number of jobs at different levels. I'm not a fan of what transpired over the past few years, but I'll give a degree of credit where credit is due to a long standing employee.

Whatever success you wish to attribute to him….the gigantic historic hole he left the org will be his lasting legacy. This team might not avg over 20K in attendance next season…..the ultimate barometer
And it’s an undeniable fact that when he and BDW decided they were going to exclusively captain the ship it slowly took on water and has now finally sunk

GF,

I think you and Cranny both have valid points. Though the organization is in a rough spot right now, Mo also oversaw one of the finest eras of Cardinals baseball. Sure you ascribe some of that success to Jocketty, LaRussa, etc. (no argument here), but he was still the head of the organization and will be attributed those achievements. As much as I hate where we are today, I still recognize our great decade plus long run.

I think with time Mo will be recognized/received better than he is today. The current state is too fresh, but with time (and a return to prominence), I think Cards fans will look back more favorably on his tenure.

TLR strong armed him to get the players he wanted. Luhnow developed the system that produced those good to very good internal fellas in the teens. When Mo was left on his own he was terrible. If you want to give him credit for having the title…..have at it. Do you think this chitshow was cultivated through Great leadership???

[Banner29]

Mo should not be honored, only forgotten

[Goldfan]

MO leaves this org at the absolute bottom of a 30 yr timeline…..and people are seriously thinking of honoring him???
ALL his success was due to TLR, Dunc, Luhnow…..after those fellas were gone and attrition left the team with just MO he guided the St. Louis Cardinals to an embarrassing disaster……

I'm sorry, but that's wrong, Goldfan. Mo had almost 30 years with the Cardinals, and had a hand in a number of the successes over those years. He contributed while performing a number of jobs at different levels. I'm not a fan of what transpired over the past few years, but I'll give a degree of credit where credit is due to a long standing employee.

Whatever success you wish to attribute to him….the gigantic historic hole he left the org will be his lasting legacy. This team might not avg over 20K in attendance next season…..the ultimate barometer
And it’s an undeniable fact that when he and BDW decided they were going to exclusively captain the ship it slowly took on water and has now finally sunk

Sorry, Goldfan, but I'll honor any 30 year Cardinal employee.

It HOF honor? Maybe have a bubblehead day but HOF?

Cranny you love uniforms and titles……Congrats. Performance never factors into the equation with you.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Sure, they should do something for Devine, but I don’t care if they do Mo first.

And it’s funny how Mo and Bing kind of compare. They both had a lot of success early, but Devine’s second stint with the Cardinals was pretty bad too.

[Cardinals4Life]

MO leaves this org at the absolute bottom of a 30 yr timeline…..and people are seriously thinking of honoring him???
ALL his success was due to TLR, Dunc, Luhnow…..after those fellas were gone and attrition left the team with just MO he guided the St. Louis Cardinals to an embarrassing disaster……

I'm sorry, but that's wrong, Goldfan. Mo had almost 30 years with the Cardinals, and had a hand in a number of the successes over those years. He contributed while performing a number of jobs at different levels. I'm not a fan of what transpired over the past few years, but I'll give a degree of credit where credit is due to a long standing employee.

Whatever success you wish to attribute to him….the gigantic historic hole he left the org will be his lasting legacy. This team might not avg over 20K in attendance next season…..the ultimate barometer
And it’s an undeniable fact that when he and BDW decided they were going to exclusively captain the ship it slowly took on water and has now finally sunk

GF,

I think you and Cranny both have valid points. Though the organization is in a rough spot right now, Mo also oversaw one of the finest eras of Cardinals baseball. Sure you ascribe some of that success to Jocketty, LaRussa, etc. (no argument here), but he was still the head of the organization and will be attributed those achievements. As much as I hate where we are today, I still recognize our great decade plus long run.

I think with time Mo will be recognized/received better than he is today. The current state is too fresh, but with time (and a return to prominence), I think Cards fans will look back more favorably on his tenure.

TLR strong armed him to get the players he wanted. Luhnow developed the system that produced those good to very good internal fellas in the teens. When Mo was left on his own he was terrible. If you want to give him credit for having the title…..have at it. Do you think this chitshow was cultivated through Great leadership???

I am well aware of TLR's pull within the organization (and glad he had it!!). But at the end of the day, Mo had a pretty good run. Compare his tenure with any of his contemporaries and you will see that overall, he did a fantastic job. Again, I too am as disappointed as the next guy in how it ended, but being rational and looking at the entire era, I would say he should be recognized one day. Nothing wrong with that.

Pujols, a sure fire HOFer, isnt going to be penalized fpr his lackluster years in Anaheim is he?

Nobody is perfect, but his overall legacy has been very good!

And again, I am no Mo apologist. Should he be recognized right away? Of course not. But in due time, he will be. You'll be surprised what time can do (and what a turnaround to greatness for the Cards will do) to people and theur feelings.

[Rojo Johnson]

Mo should not be honored, only forgotten

No! Never! Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. We must never forget a slimebag like Moe. Actually, the best way would be to erect a statue with a plaque that has a statement about Moe written by Goldfan that attracts pigeons and never clean off the guano.

[BleedingBleu]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/be ... e68f&ei=30

I’m old and my memory is bad. My question on all these guys is did they leave the team better off than where they found it. Sounds like Devine did but what do you think?

Mo? Absolutely not. I question what he built? Thoughts?

https://retrosimba.com/2014/08/15/why-g ... ship-year/

It’s hard to suggest that Gussie was wrong. 10 years of ownership with only a 2nd Place finish (93-69) in ‘63 to show for it. Sure, the Cardinals would finish with the same record, but that was only after the team rallied to a .690 win% after the transition pushed out Devine and placed pressure on Johnny Keane.

[JuanAgosto]

Bing Devine should absolutely be in the Cardinals HOF. Its surprising he isn't already. His moves built 2 WS winners and a 3rd NL championship.

Mi will definitely be inducted. The DeWitts will ensure that. I just hope a major player is inducted the same year. Otherwise, nobody will attend the ceremony. Knowing that arrogant jackass, he will demand a solo induction. What a putz.

[OldRed]

Sure, they should do something for Devine, but I don’t care if they do Mo first.

And it’s funny how Mo and Bing kind of compare. They both had a lot of success early, but Devine’s second stint with the Cardinals was pretty bad too.

I wouldn't really say his second term as pretty bad.


Second term as Cardinals' general manager

In 1968, led by Gibson's all-time record 1.12 earned run average, the Cardinals repeated as NL champions and held a three games to one lead in the World Series against the Detroit Tigers, but lost the final three contests to be denied back-to-back world titles. Suddenly, Devine was faced with retooling an aging roster. Brock and Gibson remained Cardinal mainstays, but Devine traded Cepeda to the Atlanta Braves after the 1968 season, then dealt Flood and McCarver to Philadelphia following the 1969 campaign. In the Cepeda deal, Devine acquired Joe Torre, who won the 1971 NL batting average championship and the league's Most Valuable Player award. But the Cardinals suffered long-term damage when Busch ordered Devine to trade star left-handed pitcher Steve Carlton in 1972 after a salary dispute. Carlton, coming off his first 20-win season, was sent to the Phillies for pitcher Rick Wise, an uneven swap that helped to turn the last-place Phillies into contenders.


From 1981 to 1986, he was club president of the St. Louis Cardinals of the NFL

[Cranny]

MO leaves this org at the absolute bottom of a 30 yr timeline…..and people are seriously thinking of honoring him???
ALL his success was due to TLR, Dunc, Luhnow…..after those fellas were gone and attrition left the team with just MO he guided the St. Louis Cardinals to an embarrassing disaster……

I'm sorry, but that's wrong, Goldfan. Mo had almost 30 years with the Cardinals, and had a hand in a number of the successes over those years. He contributed while performing a number of jobs at different levels. I'm not a fan of what transpired over the past few years, but I'll give a degree of credit where credit is due to a long standing employee.

Whatever success you wish to attribute to him….the gigantic historic hole he left the org will be his lasting legacy. This team might not avg over 20K in attendance next season…..the ultimate barometer
And it’s an undeniable fact that when he and BDW decided they were going to exclusively captain the ship it slowly took on water and has now finally sunk

GF,

I think you and Cranny both have valid points. Though the organization is in a rough spot right now, Mo also oversaw one of the finest eras of Cardinals baseball. Sure you ascribe some of that success to Jocketty, LaRussa, etc. (no argument here), but he was still the head of the organization and will be attributed those achievements. As much as I hate where we are today, I still recognize our great decade plus long run.

I think with time Mo will be recognized/received better than he is today. The current state is too fresh, but with time (and a return to prominence), I think Cards fans will look back more favorably on his tenure.

TLR strong armed him to get the players he wanted. Luhnow developed the system that produced those good to very good internal fellas in the teens. When Mo was left on his own he was terrible. If you want to give him credit for having the title…..have at it. Do you think this chitshow was cultivated through Great leadership???

I am well aware of TLR's pull within the organization (and glad he had it!!). But at the end of the day, Mo had a pretty good run. Compare his tenure with any of his contemporaries and you will see that overall, he did a fantastic job. Again, I too am as disappointed as the next guy in how it ended, but being rational and looking at the entire era, I would say he should be recognized one day. Nothing wrong with that.

Pujols, a sure fire HOFer, isnt going to be penalized fpr his lackluster years in Anaheim is he?

Nobody is perfect, but his overall legacy has been very good!

And again, I am no Mo apologist. Should he be recognized right away? Of course not. But in due time, he will be. You'll be surprised what time can do (and what a turnaround to greatness for the Cards will do) to people and theur feelings.

A rational post. Thank you, Cardinals4Life. Too bad there's so much hate from others.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

I wouldn't really say his second term as pretty bad.


Second term as Cardinals' general manager

In 1968, led by Gibson's all-time record 1.12 earned run average, the Cardinals repeated as NL champions and held a three games to one lead in the World Series against the Detroit Tigers, but lost the final three contests to be denied back-to-back world titles. Suddenly, Devine was faced with retooling an aging roster. Brock and Gibson remained Cardinal mainstays, but Devine traded Cepeda to the Atlanta Braves after the 1968 season, then dealt Flood and McCarver to Philadelphia following the 1969 campaign. In the Cepeda deal, Devine acquired Joe Torre, who won the 1971 NL batting average championship and the league's Most Valuable Player award. But the Cardinals suffered long-term damage when Busch ordered Devine to trade star left-handed pitcher Steve Carlton in 1972 after a salary dispute. Carlton, coming off his first 20-win season, was sent to the Phillies for pitcher Rick Wise, an uneven swap that helped to turn the last-place Phillies into contenders.


From 1981 to 1986, he was club president of the St. Louis Cardinals of the NFL

If we’re going to give him the Mo treatment, he only won an NL Pennant off the back of the previous GM, who put the team together. He didn’t do much after that. Again, if he’s getting the Mo treatment, then I don’t care if the owner forced him to trade Steve Carlton. He made the trade, it falls on him. I’m sure BDW put quite a few constraints on Mo and made him do things that he might now have been comfortable with.

[Cardinals4Life]

MO leaves this org at the absolute bottom of a 30 yr timeline…..and people are seriously thinking of honoring him???
ALL his success was due to TLR, Dunc, Luhnow…..after those fellas were gone and attrition left the team with just MO he guided the St. Louis Cardinals to an embarrassing disaster……

I'm sorry, but that's wrong, Goldfan. Mo had almost 30 years with the Cardinals, and had a hand in a number of the successes over those years. He contributed while performing a number of jobs at different levels. I'm not a fan of what transpired over the past few years, but I'll give a degree of credit where credit is due to a long standing employee.

Whatever success you wish to attribute to him….the gigantic historic hole he left the org will be his lasting legacy. This team might not avg over 20K in attendance next season…..the ultimate barometer
And it’s an undeniable fact that when he and BDW decided they were going to exclusively captain the ship it slowly took on water and has now finally sunk

GF,

I think you and Cranny both have valid points. Though the organization is in a rough spot right now, Mo also oversaw one of the finest eras of Cardinals baseball. Sure you ascribe some of that success to Jocketty, LaRussa, etc. (no argument here), but he was still the head of the organization and will be attributed those achievements. As much as I hate where we are today, I still recognize our great decade plus long run.

I think with time Mo will be recognized/received better than he is today. The current state is too fresh, but with time (and a return to prominence), I think Cards fans will look back more favorably on his tenure.

TLR strong armed him to get the players he wanted. Luhnow developed the system that produced those good to very good internal fellas in the teens. When Mo was left on his own he was terrible. If you want to give him credit for having the title…..have at it. Do you think this chitshow was cultivated through Great leadership???

I am well aware of TLR's pull within the organization (and glad he had it!!). But at the end of the day, Mo had a pretty good run. Compare his tenure with any of his contemporaries and you will see that overall, he did a fantastic job. Again, I too am as disappointed as the next guy in how it ended, but being rational and looking at the entire era, I would say he should be recognized one day. Nothing wrong with that.

Pujols, a sure fire HOFer, isnt going to be penalized fpr his lackluster years in Anaheim is he?

Nobody is perfect, but his overall legacy has been very good!

And again, I am no Mo apologist. Should he be recognized right away? Of course not. But in due time, he will be. You'll be surprised what time can do (and what a turnaround to greatness for the Cards will do) to people and theur feelings.

A rational post. Thank you, Cardinals4Life. Too bad there's so much hate from others.

Thanks.
I understand the hate and frustration. The past several years have been frustrating to go through. However, we also witnessed perhaps the greatest era in Cards history with Mo at the helm. He had a really good run that ended poorly. Overall, though, a very successful tenure. Again, "the passage of time" (sorry, tried to not laugh when I typed that ....some of you will get that...) will likely soften the negativity a lot are feeling right now.