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Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 14:25 pm

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 13:04 pm After looking back through the last 2 decades it's apparent that the Cards have spent money. They're pretty consistently between about 9th to 14th or so. I was a bit surprised at this. Still, payroll is way down right now for no real reason, but they aren't the cheapskates that I thought they were, at least in past years. So this is a mea culpa for not researching sooner and pushing an untruth however unintentional. This probably helps explain why they contended for 2 decades too. So, pile on if you will but the numbers don't lie. They have spent solidly in the upper middle of payroll. The demographics of payroll are changing though. It will require more payroll to stay relevant and I hope after this aberration they'll at least revert back to their norm.

No offense, but why would you argue such a thing? If you didn’t believe it, why not just look it up? There’s an ocean of information available to you.

Like, what would you do when someone told you that the Cardinals spent the way they did? Just deny it for no reason, other than it’s what you believed, and never bother to see if they were correct? That’s very strange.

I believe I explained it pretty well. What didn't you understand?

alw80 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 14:18 pm

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 13:04 pm After looking back through the last 2 decades it's apparent that the Cards have spent money. They're pretty consistently between about 9th to 14th or so. I was a bit surprised at this. Still, payroll is way down right now for no real reason, but they aren't the cheapskates that I thought they were, at least in past years. So this is a mea culpa for not researching sooner and pushing an untruth however unintentional. This probably helps explain why they contended for 2 decades too. So, pile on if you will but the numbers don't lie. They have spent solidly in the upper middle of payroll. The demographics of payroll are changing though. It will require more payroll to stay relevant and I hope after this aberration they'll at least revert back to their norm.

Payroll isn't down "for no real reason".

You're right, there is a reason. The owners don't want to compete this season. Good enough?

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 20:45 pm

alw80 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 14:18 pm

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 13:04 pm After looking back through the last 2 decades it's apparent that the Cards have spent money. They're pretty consistently between about 9th to 14th or so. I was a bit surprised at this. Still, payroll is way down right now for no real reason, but they aren't the cheapskates that I thought they were, at least in past years. So this is a mea culpa for not researching sooner and pushing an untruth however unintentional. This probably helps explain why they contended for 2 decades too. So, pile on if you will but the numbers don't lie. They have spent solidly in the upper middle of payroll. The demographics of payroll are changing though. It will require more payroll to stay relevant and I hope after this aberration they'll at least revert back to their norm.

Payroll isn't down "for no real reason".

You're right, there is a reason. The owners don't want to compete this season. Good enough?

It’s a rebuild. Look it up.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 13:57 pm

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 13:04 pm After looking back through the last 2 decades it's apparent that the Cards have spent money. They're pretty consistently between about 9th to 14th or so. I was a bit surprised at this. Still, payroll is way down right now for no real reason…

This is what I don’t understand… what do you mean “no real reason”?

St Louis has turned into a small market. Their brand has lost value and their media rights value has plummeted.

It seems a lot of fans are simply in denial about this. I don’t know why.

The do have a reason. The owners for whatever reason don't want to compete this season. There's plenty of revenue to compete, at least for the Central. Maybe it's the CBA, maybe it's tanking, maybe it's some of both. They certainly have enough profit to go up to as much as 190 or a touch more. They just won't.

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 13:31 pm

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 13:04 pm After looking back through the last 2 decades it's apparent that the Cards have spent money. They're pretty consistently between about 9th to 14th or so. I was a bit surprised at this. Still, payroll is way down right now for no real reason, but they aren't the cheapskates that I thought they were, at least in past years. So this is a mea culpa for not researching sooner and pushing an untruth however unintentional. This probably helps explain why they contended for 2 decades too. So, pile on if you will but the numbers don't lie. They have spent solidly in the upper middle of payroll. The demographics of payroll are changing though. It will require more payroll to stay relevant and I hope after this aberration they'll at least revert back to their norm.

I don't think many are debating their past spending. What many have been arguing for, including me, are 2 things:

1.) Spending money to fill in their missing pieces.
2.) Realize that prices/spending is going up. (So are their revenues.) They need to keep pace and continue to increase their payroll, even if it is incrementally. No way should it go down. So even getting back ro the 179-180M mark is probably not enough. Will need to continue to increase proportionally every year.

Agreed. There's no reason to not try and compete. They have the profit margin to spend at least what they were spending before this "rebuild" bull started up, around 180 million. They are going to have to elevate payroll eventually or become the dregs of baseball.

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 13:31 pm

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 13:04 pm After looking back through the last 2 decades it's apparent that the Cards have spent money. They're pretty consistently between about 9th to 14th or so. I was a bit surprised at this. Still, payroll is way down right now for no real reason, but they aren't the cheapskates that I thought they were, at least in past years. So this is a mea culpa for not researching sooner and pushing an untruth however unintentional. This probably helps explain why they contended for 2 decades too. So, pile on if you will but the numbers don't lie. They have spent solidly in the upper middle of payroll. The demographics of payroll are changing though. It will require more payroll to stay relevant and I hope after this aberration they'll at least revert back to their norm.

I don't think many are debating their past spending. What many have been arguing for, including me, are 2 things:

1.) Spending money to fill in their missing pieces.
2.) Realize that prices/spending is going up. (So are their revenues.) They need to keep pace and continue to increase their payroll, even if it is incrementally. No way should it go down. So even getting back ro the 179-180M mark is probably not enough. Will need to continue to increase proportionally every year.

They don’t need to spend waste on payroll now. Who gaf about 2026. Or 2027? Let’s get some a mofo or three who can win MVPs in the system. K? Until then the rest is moot. A waste. But but but…No.

Now — if and when the time comes to spend bc WS rings are within reach $180M isn’t going to be enough.

3 million fans = $210M+ payroll

Bushiro wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 13:22 pm

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 13:04 pm After looking back through the last 2 decades it's apparent that the Cards have spent money. They're pretty consistently between about 9th to 14th or so. I was a bit surprised at this. Still, payroll is way down right now for no real reason, but they aren't the cheapskates that I thought they were, at least in past years. So this is a mea culpa for not researching sooner and pushing an untruth however unintentional. This probably helps explain why they contended for 2 decades too. So, pile on if you will but the numbers don't lie. They have spent solidly in the upper middle of payroll. The demographics of payroll are changing though. It will require more payroll to stay relevant and I hope after this aberration they'll at least revert back to their norm.

To a degree....my problem was when they quit spending to go for it...bringing a player or two in to put themselves over the top...to show that they think they can win it all....started the wild card is good enough and get in and get lucky with what we have....some of that started when mo started handing out terrible contracts... which hurt the ability to add more...and then it became to where adding a couple big players wouldn't matter...like the situation Bloom took over...hopefully Bloom builds a nice young core that looks promising ...then they do what the cubs did in 2015 2016...where they spent on some quality veterans to go with that young core

The thing is that it isn't like there's a big piggy bank and daddy warbucks Dewitt has to save his nickels and dimes for just the right time. They can contend and still build this vaunted "core of young players". They can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. Why make the fans suffer?

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 13:04 pm After looking back through the last 2 decades it's apparent that the Cards have spent money. They're pretty consistently between about 9th to 14th or so. I was a bit surprised at this. Still, payroll is way down right now for no real reason, but they aren't the cheapskates that I thought they were, at least in past years. So this is a mea culpa for not researching sooner and pushing an untruth however unintentional. This probably helps explain why they contended for 2 decades too. So, pile on if you will but the numbers don't lie. They have spent solidly in the upper middle of payroll. The demographics of payroll are changing though. It will require more payroll to stay relevant and I hope after this aberration they'll at least revert back to their norm.

When they were spending 9-14 range there were teams spending less and doing better such as Brewers, Guardians, Rays, etc.

When they were spending in upper half its no wonder why they could get slightly better than .500 and get a wild card.

I have always said it was not the budget that was the problem it was their decisions and how they used the budget they had. The fare well tours of Molina and Waino were not cheap either.

CardsBest wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 21:04 pm

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 13:04 pm After looking back through the last 2 decades it's apparent that the Cards have spent money. They're pretty consistently between about 9th to 14th or so. I was a bit surprised at this. Still, payroll is way down right now for no real reason, but they aren't the cheapskates that I thought they were, at least in past years. So this is a mea culpa for not researching sooner and pushing an untruth however unintentional. This probably helps explain why they contended for 2 decades too. So, pile on if you will but the numbers don't lie. They have spent solidly in the upper middle of payroll. The demographics of payroll are changing though. It will require more payroll to stay relevant and I hope after this aberration they'll at least revert back to their norm.

When they were spending 9-14 range there were teams spending less and doing better such as Brewers, Guardians, Rays, etc.

When they were spending in upper half its no wonder why they could get slightly better than .500 and get a wild card.

I have always said it was not the budget that was the problem it was their decisions and how they used the budget they had. The fare well tours of Molina and Waino were not cheap either.

You could say that about virtually any team. But you can't argue that budget doesn't make a difference. They were one of the most successful teams during that period. So much so that fans in places like Cincy and Chicago would regularly say that they were using devil magic. LOL The point is that they weren't doing awful payroll wise and in fact were outspending Chicago and the Brewers amongst others pretty regularly in the central division.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 20:47 pm

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 20:45 pm

alw80 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 14:18 pm

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 13:04 pm After looking back through the last 2 decades it's apparent that the Cards have spent money. They're pretty consistently between about 9th to 14th or so. I was a bit surprised at this. Still, payroll is way down right now for no real reason, but they aren't the cheapskates that I thought they were, at least in past years. So this is a mea culpa for not researching sooner and pushing an untruth however unintentional. This probably helps explain why they contended for 2 decades too. So, pile on if you will but the numbers don't lie. They have spent solidly in the upper middle of payroll. The demographics of payroll are changing though. It will require more payroll to stay relevant and I hope after this aberration they'll at least revert back to their norm.

Payroll isn't down "for no real reason".

You're right, there is a reason. The owners don't want to compete this season. Good enough?

It’s a rebuild. Look it up.

It's planning to fail in order fore DeWitt to not have expensive contracts going into the CBA and probable lockout. It's also an excuse to get cheap when everyone knows they have the money to add some premium players and try to win.

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 21:10 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 20:47 pm

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 20:45 pm

alw80 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 14:18 pm

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 13:04 pm After looking back through the last 2 decades it's apparent that the Cards have spent money. They're pretty consistently between about 9th to 14th or so. I was a bit surprised at this. Still, payroll is way down right now for no real reason, but they aren't the cheapskates that I thought they were, at least in past years. So this is a mea culpa for not researching sooner and pushing an untruth however unintentional. This probably helps explain why they contended for 2 decades too. So, pile on if you will but the numbers don't lie. They have spent solidly in the upper middle of payroll. The demographics of payroll are changing though. It will require more payroll to stay relevant and I hope after this aberration they'll at least revert back to their norm.

Payroll isn't down "for no real reason".

You're right, there is a reason. The owners don't want to compete this season. Good enough?

It’s a rebuild. Look it up.

It's planning to fail in order fore DeWitt to not have expensive contracts going into the CBA and probable lockout. It's also an excuse to get cheap when everyone knows they have the money to add some premium players and try to win.

No, it’s a rebuild.

During a rebuild, payroll decreases, vets are traded for prospects, etc. This is basic rebuild 101…

I look forward to you writing a similar OP to this one in a few years stating that you were once again wrong.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 21:17 pm

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 21:10 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 20:47 pm

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 20:45 pm

alw80 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 14:18 pm

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 13:04 pm After looking back through the last 2 decades it's apparent that the Cards have spent money. They're pretty consistently between about 9th to 14th or so. I was a bit surprised at this. Still, payroll is way down right now for no real reason, but they aren't the cheapskates that I thought they were, at least in past years. So this is a mea culpa for not researching sooner and pushing an untruth however unintentional. This probably helps explain why they contended for 2 decades too. So, pile on if you will but the numbers don't lie. They have spent solidly in the upper middle of payroll. The demographics of payroll are changing though. It will require more payroll to stay relevant and I hope after this aberration they'll at least revert back to their norm.

Payroll isn't down "for no real reason".

You're right, there is a reason. The owners don't want to compete this season. Good enough?

It’s a rebuild. Look it up.

It's planning to fail in order fore DeWitt to not have expensive contracts going into the CBA and probable lockout. It's also an excuse to get cheap when everyone knows they have the money to add some premium players and try to win.

No, it’s a rebuild.

During a rebuild, payroll decreases, vets are traded for prospects, etc. This is basic rebuild 101…

I look forward to you writing a similar OP to this one in a few years stating that you were once again wrong.

Ya think???
Where do some of these people come from?
How about:
We let the guy do his job??
He’s TWO WHOLE months into his tenure and he seems to have a plan to build from the system.
So far so good!
It’s still flipping December LOL
And BTW spending money has not been the problem!
WHO they’ve spent it on has been the problem!
But yes....let’s spend for the sake of saying we spent money.
That way a bunch of geeks on CT can report where we stand payroll wise in MLB.
Talk about short attention span theater! LOL

juan good eye wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 21:00 pm

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 13:31 pm

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 13:04 pm After looking back through the last 2 decades it's apparent that the Cards have spent money. They're pretty consistently between about 9th to 14th or so. I was a bit surprised at this. Still, payroll is way down right now for no real reason, but they aren't the cheapskates that I thought they were, at least in past years. So this is a mea culpa for not researching sooner and pushing an untruth however unintentional. This probably helps explain why they contended for 2 decades too. So, pile on if you will but the numbers don't lie. They have spent solidly in the upper middle of payroll. The demographics of payroll are changing though. It will require more payroll to stay relevant and I hope after this aberration they'll at least revert back to their norm.

I don't think many are debating their past spending. What many have been arguing for, including me, are 2 things:

1.) Spending money to fill in their missing pieces.
2.) Realize that prices/spending is going up. (So are their revenues.) They need to keep pace and continue to increase their payroll, even if it is incrementally. No way should it go down. So even getting back ro the 179-180M mark is probably not enough. Will need to continue to increase proportionally every year.

They don’t need to spend waste on payroll now. Who gaf about 2026. Or 2027? Let’s get some a mofo or three who can win MVPs in the system. K? Until then the rest is moot. A waste. But but but…No.

Now — if and when the time comes to spend bc WS rings are within reach $180M isn’t going to be enough.

3 million fans = $210M+ payroll

How is it wasting money to spend some money on this season and try to win? The young guys can still develop. That won't affect the minor league guys.
It isn't wasting it. I mean it isnt like DeWitt is taking the money they don't spend this year ans putting it in an envelope to spend in a couple years. That's not happening!!

And agree about the last comment about $$.

Cusecards wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 22:12 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 21:17 pm

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 21:10 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 20:47 pm

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 20:45 pm

alw80 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 14:18 pm

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 13:04 pm After looking back through the last 2 decades it's apparent that the Cards have spent money. They're pretty consistently between about 9th to 14th or so. I was a bit surprised at this. Still, payroll is way down right now for no real reason, but they aren't the cheapskates that I thought they were, at least in past years. So this is a mea culpa for not researching sooner and pushing an untruth however unintentional. This probably helps explain why they contended for 2 decades too. So, pile on if you will but the numbers don't lie. They have spent solidly in the upper middle of payroll. The demographics of payroll are changing though. It will require more payroll to stay relevant and I hope after this aberration they'll at least revert back to their norm.

Payroll isn't down "for no real reason".

You're right, there is a reason. The owners don't want to compete this season. Good enough?

It’s a rebuild. Look it up.

It's planning to fail in order fore DeWitt to not have expensive contracts going into the CBA and probable lockout. It's also an excuse to get cheap when everyone knows they have the money to add some premium players and try to win.

No, it’s a rebuild.

During a rebuild, payroll decreases, vets are traded for prospects, etc. This is basic rebuild 101…

I look forward to you writing a similar OP to this one in a few years stating that you were once again wrong.

Ya think???
Where do some of these people come from?
How about:
We let the guy do his job??
He’s TWO WHOLE months into his tenure and he seems to have a plan to build from the system.
So far so good!
It’s still flipping December LOL
And BTW spending money has not been the problem!
WHO they’ve spent it on has been the problem!
But yes....let’s spend for the sake of saying we spent money.
That way a bunch of geeks on CT can report where we stand payroll wise in MLB.
Talk about short attention span theater! LOL

It’s really odd, right?

And it’s not like Bloom is dumping money. He gave Boston money in BOTH trades so he could get a better return, and signed May for 12 million.

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 23:07 pm

juan good eye wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 21:00 pm

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 13:31 pm

CCard wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 13:04 pm After looking back through the last 2 decades it's apparent that the Cards have spent money. They're pretty consistently between about 9th to 14th or so. I was a bit surprised at this. Still, payroll is way down right now for no real reason, but they aren't the cheapskates that I thought they were, at least in past years. So this is a mea culpa for not researching sooner and pushing an untruth however unintentional. This probably helps explain why they contended for 2 decades too. So, pile on if you will but the numbers don't lie. They have spent solidly in the upper middle of payroll. The demographics of payroll are changing though. It will require more payroll to stay relevant and I hope after this aberration they'll at least revert back to their norm.

I don't think many are debating their past spending. What many have been arguing for, including me, are 2 things:

1.) Spending money to fill in their missing pieces.
2.) Realize that prices/spending is going up. (So are their revenues.) They need to keep pace and continue to increase their payroll, even if it is incrementally. No way should it go down. So even getting back ro the 179-180M mark is probably not enough. Will need to continue to increase proportionally every year.

They don’t need to spend waste on payroll now. Who gaf about 2026. Or 2027? Let’s get some a mofo or three who can win MVPs in the system. K? Until then the rest is moot. A waste. But but but…No.

Now — if and when the time comes to spend bc WS rings are within reach $180M isn’t going to be enough.

3 million fans = $210M+ payroll

How is it wasting money to spend some money on this season and try to win? The young guys can still develop. That won't affect the minor league guys.
It isn't wasting it. I mean it isnt like DeWitt is taking the money they don't spend this year ans putting it in an envelope to spend in a couple years. That's not happening!!

And agree about the last comment about $$.

When a championship window opens it will be the time to start spending BIG but wisely.

When that time comes we want the front office to have as much payroll flexibility as possible which won’t be the case if they tie up a bunch of payroll now to guys like Donovan.

Btw what sucks is guys like Donovan and Edman are often the final pieces that championship teams add. Noot may fit that mold too. Sadly the Cards wasted their time, however, they don’t have to completely waste the asset. Sell high when the time is right but don’t hold unnecessarily long.

Burly might be a guy who also plays the part as the others but the Cards can hold through the entire process due to age/contract if A) he continues his progress and B) they don’t take too long find elite status as a team

*edit: my bad for going OT at the end

Historically, the Cardinals have been right on the edge of the Top 10 in MLB payroll most seasons (that would have been ~$210 million in 2025).

Going forward, that may decline a bit to being on the edge of the top half (Top 15) due to changes in media revenue, etc. (that would have been right around $170 million in 2025).

Either way, the priority has to be young, cost controlled talent that they can selectively add to with whatever payroll they have to spend.