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Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?
Posted: 23 Dec 2025 12:08 pm
by 3GoldCoinsToPass
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:39 am
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:33 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:26 am
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:19 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:12 am
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:10 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:05 am
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:00 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 10:58 am
Overhauled the starting staff before Xmas and that equals tanking? Hmm…
And obviously Bloom isn’t done with trades and FA signings.
Also, he traded a 34 year old and a 37 year old, with 2 and 1 years remaining respectively. And he still want to trade a floundering Arenado.
Lol. Some of you guys are acting like he’s trading Rolen-Pujols-Edmonds circa ‘03….
I dig the Dustin May move. The other guys? We already had plenty of #5 starters that might or might not even reach 130 innings.
Is Gray a 5th starter?
2025 starter ERAs
McGreevy 4.70
Libby 4.21
Gray 4.28
Dobbins 4.13
So Dobbins was on track for a better season before injury.
?? Gray is not a factor as he's no longer here. Or are you saying they shouldn't have traded him?
I’m showing you the Cards traded Gray for a player with a better ERA.
So while you’re implying the team is getting worse, you could argue the team improved from the trades.
I mean, it's slightly better I guess, but not guaranteed to continue to be better. But I haven't spoken out against any trades. At all. I get it, despite others speaking for me. Out with the old, in with the new is always strategically sound. Sports is a young man's game. Doesn't mean it's the only strategy either. Otherwise, why would we even need a GM?
Well, you just referred to Dobbins and Fitts as number 5 starters, when Dobbins had a better ERA than our ace in 2025.
Also, Fitts isn’t a world beater, but I would put money on him being an improvement over Pallante and maybe Miko.
As I said, when did adding three starters = not trying?
"Our Ace". Burleson is "our Silver Slugger". Which means a bunch of nothing.
Agree on Mikolas/Pallante, but that is quite the low bar.
Our ace was Gray.
He and Pallante are no longer in the rotation.
They were replaced with pitchers who had better eras in 2025.
So how again is this team not trying?
The fact Dobbins had an ERA .12 lower than Sonny in 13 appearances is not the smoking gun that you think it is.
In general, I think you're on to something regarding the trajectory of Gray versus Dobbins and Fitts going forward. But I think the chance of Dobbins + Fitts combining to have a career as good as Gray's is somewhere in the 5% chance of happening range.
Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?
Posted: 23 Dec 2025 12:35 pm
by cardstatman
We had 5 players who were above average: Gray, Winn, Donovan, Contreras, Herrera.
Now we have 3 players who were above average in 2025 and we plan to trade one more of them.
Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?
Posted: 23 Dec 2025 13:01 pm
by OldRed
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 10:58 am
Overhauled the starting staff before Xmas and that equals tanking? Hmm…
And obviously Bloom isn’t done with trades and FA signings.
Also, he traded a 34 year old and a 37 year old, with 2 and 1 years remaining respectively. And he still want to trade a floundering Arenado.
Lol. Some of you guys are acting like he’s trading Rolen-Pujols-Edmonds circa ‘03….
You have sure changed your tune on Contreras.
Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?
Posted: 23 Dec 2025 13:08 pm
by Midrange Jay
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 10:58 am
Overhauled the starting staff before Xmas and that equals tanking? Hmm…
And obviously Bloom isn’t done with trades and FA signings.
Also, he traded a 34 year old and a 37 year old, with 2 and 1 years remaining respectively. And he still want to trade a floundering Arenado.
Lol. Some of you guys are acting like he’s trading Rolen-Pujols-Edmonds circa ‘03….
All 3 starters are coming off injury. The one who pitched more than 50 innings was a 1 year deal, designed to be flipped at the trade deadline. The offense is worse without Contreras, and we are about to trade Donovan. There is no interest in competing for 2026 being shown on management’s part.
Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?
Posted: 23 Dec 2025 13:26 pm
by ecleme22
OldRed wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 13:01 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 10:58 am
Overhauled the starting staff before Xmas and that equals tanking? Hmm…
And obviously Bloom isn’t done with trades and FA signings.
Also, he traded a 34 year old and a 37 year old, with 2 and 1 years remaining respectively. And he still want to trade a floundering Arenado.
Lol. Some of you guys are acting like he’s trading Rolen-Pujols-Edmonds circa ‘03….
You have sure changed your tune on Contreras.
How so?
Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?
Posted: 23 Dec 2025 13:31 pm
by ecleme22
Midrange Jay wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 13:08 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 10:58 am
Overhauled the starting staff before Xmas and that equals tanking? Hmm…
And obviously Bloom isn’t done with trades and FA signings.
Also, he traded a 34 year old and a 37 year old, with 2 and 1 years remaining respectively. And he still want to trade a floundering Arenado.
Lol. Some of you guys are acting like he’s trading Rolen-Pujols-Edmonds circa ‘03….
All 3 starters are coming off injury. The one who pitched more than 50 innings was a 1 year deal, designed to be flipped at the trade deadline. The offense is worse without Contreras, and we are about to trade Donovan. There is no interest in competing for 2026 being shown on management’s part.
The rotation is set up to be better than 2025. And they may still add another starter.
The offense: it’s not even Xmas yet. You really think the only thing Bloom does to the offense is remove BD and WC from it?
Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?
Posted: 23 Dec 2025 13:36 pm
by Goldfan
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:05 am
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:00 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 10:58 am
Overhauled the starting staff before Xmas and that equals tanking? Hmm…
And obviously Bloom isn’t done with trades and FA signings.
Also, he traded a 34 year old and a 37 year old, with 2 and 1 years remaining respectively. And he still want to trade a floundering Arenado.
Lol. Some of you guys are acting like he’s trading Rolen-Pujols-Edmonds circa ‘03….
I dig the Dustin May move. The other guys? We already had plenty of #5 starters that might or might not even reach 130 innings.
Is Gray a 5th starter?
2025 starter ERAs
McGreevy 4.70
Libby 4.21
Gray 4.28
Dobbins 4.13
So Dobbins was on track for a better season before injury.
I guess it’s all relative. You think replacing high ERA old fellas with High ERA younger fellas is some sort of advancement. Last I check you need 5 live bodies every day….
Gray, Miles, Fedde, Matz, Helsley Gone
And you’re excited about May, Dobbins, Fitts???
Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?
Posted: 23 Dec 2025 13:46 pm
by CorneliusWolfe
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:39 am
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:33 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:26 am
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:19 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:12 am
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:10 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:05 am
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:00 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 10:58 am
Overhauled the starting staff before Xmas and that equals tanking? Hmm…
And obviously Bloom isn’t done with trades and FA signings.
Also, he traded a 34 year old and a 37 year old, with 2 and 1 years remaining respectively. And he still want to trade a floundering Arenado.
Lol. Some of you guys are acting like he’s trading Rolen-Pujols-Edmonds circa ‘03….
I dig the Dustin May move. The other guys? We already had plenty of #5 starters that might or might not even reach 130 innings.
Is Gray a 5th starter?
2025 starter ERAs
McGreevy 4.70
Libby 4.21
Gray 4.28
Dobbins 4.13
So Dobbins was on track for a better season before injury.
?? Gray is not a factor as he's no longer here. Or are you saying they shouldn't have traded him?
I’m showing you the Cards traded Gray for a player with a better ERA.
So while you’re implying the team is getting worse, you could argue the team improved from the trades.
I mean, it's slightly better I guess, but not guaranteed to continue to be better. But I haven't spoken out against any trades. At all. I get it, despite others speaking for me. Out with the old, in with the new is always strategically sound. Sports is a young man's game. Doesn't mean it's the only strategy either. Otherwise, why would we even need a GM?
Well, you just referred to Dobbins and Fitts as number 5 starters, when Dobbins had a better ERA than our ace in 2025.
Also, Fitts isn’t a world beater, but I would put money on him being an improvement over Pallante and maybe Miko.
As I said, when did adding three starters = not trying?
"Our Ace". Burleson is "our Silver Slugger". Which means a bunch of nothing.
Agree on Mikolas/Pallante, but that is quite the low bar.
Our ace was Gray.
He and Pallante are no longer in the rotation.
They were replaced with pitchers who had better eras in 2025.
So how again is this team not trying?
I didn’t say they weren’t. I realize it’s only December and they did make the Dustin May move. I would expect some of the cut payroll and revenue sharing to be reinvested in the team at some point though.
Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?
Posted: 23 Dec 2025 13:48 pm
by Ozziesfan41
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 13:46 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:39 am
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:33 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:26 am
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:19 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:12 am
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:10 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:05 am
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:00 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 10:58 am
Overhauled the starting staff before Xmas and that equals tanking? Hmm…
And obviously Bloom isn’t done with trades and FA signings.
Also, he traded a 34 year old and a 37 year old, with 2 and 1 years remaining respectively. And he still want to trade a floundering Arenado.
Lol. Some of you guys are acting like he’s trading Rolen-Pujols-Edmonds circa ‘03….
I dig the Dustin May move. The other guys? We already had plenty of #5 starters that might or might not even reach 130 innings.
Is Gray a 5th starter?
2025 starter ERAs
McGreevy 4.70
Libby 4.21
Gray 4.28
Dobbins 4.13
So Dobbins was on track for a better season before injury.
?? Gray is not a factor as he's no longer here. Or are you saying they shouldn't have traded him?
I’m showing you the Cards traded Gray for a player with a better ERA.
So while you’re implying the team is getting worse, you could argue the team improved from the trades.
I mean, it's slightly better I guess, but not guaranteed to continue to be better. But I haven't spoken out against any trades. At all. I get it, despite others speaking for me. Out with the old, in with the new is always strategically sound. Sports is a young man's game. Doesn't mean it's the only strategy either. Otherwise, why would we even need a GM?
Well, you just referred to Dobbins and Fitts as number 5 starters, when Dobbins had a better ERA than our ace in 2025.
Also, Fitts isn’t a world beater, but I would put money on him being an improvement over Pallante and maybe Miko.
As I said, when did adding three starters = not trying?
"Our Ace". Burleson is "our Silver Slugger". Which means a bunch of nothing.
Agree on Mikolas/Pallante, but that is quite the low bar.
Our ace was Gray.
He and Pallante are no longer in the rotation.
They were replaced with pitchers who had better eras in 2025.
So how again is this team not trying?
I didn’t say they weren’t. I realize it’s only December and they did make the Dustin May move. I would expect some of the cut payroll and revenue sharing to be reinvested in the team at some point though.
It will be
Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?
Posted: 23 Dec 2025 13:56 pm
by RamFan08NY
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:00 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 10:58 am
Overhauled the starting staff before Xmas and that equals tanking? Hmm…
And obviously Bloom isn’t done with trades and FA signings.
Also, he traded a 34 year old and a 37 year old, with 2 and 1 years remaining respectively. And he still want to trade a floundering Arenado.
Lol. Some of you guys are acting like he’s trading Rolen-Pujols-Edmonds circa ‘03….
I dig the Dustin May move. The other guys? We already had plenty of #5 starters that might or might not even reach 130 innings.
Im surprised that so many are already closing the book on the potential of the newly acquired pitchers. Not every major league pitcher is Paul Skenes from the get-go. In fact, most good ones take a year or two to make the transition. How about we let them play a few games before we start slating them all as #5 bums.
And just a little footnote. Tarik Skubals 2nd year in the majors he was 7-12 with a 4.4 ERA.
Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?
Posted: 23 Dec 2025 13:56 pm
by Midrange Jay
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 13:31 pm
Midrange Jay wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 13:08 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 10:58 am
Overhauled the starting staff before Xmas and that equals tanking? Hmm…
And obviously Bloom isn’t done with trades and FA signings.
Also, he traded a 34 year old and a 37 year old, with 2 and 1 years remaining respectively. And he still want to trade a floundering Arenado.
Lol. Some of you guys are acting like he’s trading Rolen-Pujols-Edmonds circa ‘03….
All 3 starters are coming off injury. The one who pitched more than 50 innings was a 1 year deal, designed to be flipped at the trade deadline. The offense is worse without Contreras, and we are about to trade Donovan. There is no interest in competing for 2026 being shown on management’s part.
The rotation is set up to be better than 2025. And they may still add another starter.
The offense: it’s not even Xmas yet. You really think the only thing Bloom does to the offense is remove BD and WC from it?
I will be happy to amend the statement if the Donovan trade yields major league talent and we make some free agent signings. There is no way the team as constructed gets anywhere near last year’s 78 wins.
I think we will add a one year contract to an OF in FA that doesn’t get what he is looking for. Possibly a pitcher on a similar deal. I am feeling pretty sure that we are punting the next two years.
Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?
Posted: 23 Dec 2025 13:59 pm
by RamFan08NY
Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 13:36 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:05 am
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:00 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 10:58 am
Overhauled the starting staff before Xmas and that equals tanking? Hmm…
And obviously Bloom isn’t done with trades and FA signings.
Also, he traded a 34 year old and a 37 year old, with 2 and 1 years remaining respectively. And he still want to trade a floundering Arenado.
Lol. Some of you guys are acting like he’s trading Rolen-Pujols-Edmonds circa ‘03….
I dig the Dustin May move. The other guys? We already had plenty of #5 starters that might or might not even reach 130 innings.
Is Gray a 5th starter?
2025 starter ERAs
McGreevy 4.70
Libby 4.21
Gray 4.28
Dobbins 4.13
So Dobbins was on track for a better season before injury.
I guess it’s all relative. You think replacing high ERA old fellas with High ERA younger fellas is some sort of advancement. Last I check you need 5 live bodies every day….
Gray, Miles, Fedde, Matz, Helsley Gone
And you’re excited about May, Dobbins, Fitts???
I am excited about the new young blood taking the field. Its a different approach and I love it.
There's 2 roads we all have the right to choose. The optimistic road, or the doom and gloom, everybody sucks road. Im on the optimistic road.
Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?
Posted: 23 Dec 2025 14:07 pm
by CorneliusWolfe
RamFan08NY wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 13:56 pm
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:00 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 10:58 am
Overhauled the starting staff before Xmas and that equals tanking? Hmm…
And obviously Bloom isn’t done with trades and FA signings.
Also, he traded a 34 year old and a 37 year old, with 2 and 1 years remaining respectively. And he still want to trade a floundering Arenado.
Lol. Some of you guys are acting like he’s trading Rolen-Pujols-Edmonds circa ‘03….
I dig the Dustin May move. The other guys? We already had plenty of #5 starters that might or might not even reach 130 innings.
Im surprised that so many are already closing the book on the potential of the newly acquired pitchers. Not every major league pitcher is Paul Skenes from the get-go. In fact, most good ones take a year or two to make the transition. How about we let them play a few games before we start slating them all as #5 bums.
Yet so many tout every acquisition and their sky-high ceilings. At least these guys had a sample. And those samples were that of backend starters. Not a bad thing, you can’t have 5 aces, but what have we been acquiring with the last several selloffs if they can’t handle the back of the rotation?
Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?
Posted: 23 Dec 2025 14:08 pm
by The Nard
Hoosier59 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:30 am
Ok, initially I looked at Dobbins, only, and didn’t like the deal. The guy has tore his ACL twice and had Tommy John surgery. As the main piece coming back it is a very risky move. Also he only profiles as a #4 at best. Then I looked closer at the other two players. I listened to Bloom’s presser and to Bernie’s thoughts about the deal. Everyone is high on Fajardo. He evidently does have some upside, it’s just going to take a few seasons for him to be ready. However, the Cardinals have several other pitchers who are near ready that they don’t need him immediately. The other player, is more of a lottery ticket, but is progressing in the right direction.
I liked what Bloom said about Dobbins. Hunter’s secondary pitches aren’t his problem, it’s his fastball. Teams hit .317 or so off of it, and had a high slugging percentage against it. Bloom seems to think that they can readjust his usage of pitches and make that 95 mph pitch more effective. I’m willing to give that a chance. However, he still has to stay healthy, and injury free.
I still don’t like the May signing! Dewitt is only going to allot so much money for the 2026 season, and we aren’t sure how much that will be. Bloom just spent over 12 million of that figure on a pitcher who has “ never” been able to stay healthy. When he pitches, his stuff is nasty, but he just can’t stay healthy. With limited resources, I feel it was unwise move to make for a team that needs innings from their starters! I think too many of you are only seeing what he can do when he’s healthy. The fact is, he's seldom ever healthy!
Now Bloom adds Dobbins to the mix who also has had injury issues.
In Bloom’s presser, he stated that he’s still looking to add a veteran starter, who can add innings. Whoever this pitcher is will be key. He needs to be a reliable pitcher who doesn’t have a history of being injured a lot!
I hope, if he deals Donovan, that the return is at least one power bat.
Can’t a pitching coach or someone teach him how to throw a cut fastball? Get some movement on it.
Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?
Posted: 23 Dec 2025 14:09 pm
by renostl
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:39 am
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:33 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:26 am
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:19 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:12 am
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:10 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:05 am
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 11:00 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 10:58 am
Overhauled the starting staff before Xmas and that equals tanking? Hmm…
And obviously Bloom isn’t done with trades and FA signings.
Also, he traded a 34 year old and a 37 year old, with 2 and 1 years remaining respectively. And he still want to trade a floundering Arenado.
Lol. Some of you guys are acting like he’s trading Rolen-Pujols-Edmonds circa ‘03….
I dig the Dustin May move. The other guys? We already had plenty of #5 starters that might or might not even reach 130 innings.
Is Gray a 5th starter?
2025 starter ERAs
McGreevy 4.70
Libby 4.21
Gray 4.28
Dobbins 4.13
So Dobbins was on track for a better season before injury.
?? Gray is not a factor as he's no longer here. Or are you saying they shouldn't have traded him?
I’m showing you the Cards traded Gray for a player with a better ERA.
So while you’re implying the team is getting worse, you could argue the team improved from the trades.
I mean, it's slightly better I guess, but not guaranteed to continue to be better. But I haven't spoken out against any trades. At all. I get it, despite others speaking for me. Out with the old, in with the new is always strategically sound. Sports is a young man's game. Doesn't mean it's the only strategy either. Otherwise, why would we even need a GM?
Well, you just referred to Dobbins and Fitts as number 5 starters, when Dobbins had a better ERA than our ace in 2025.
Also, Fitts isn’t a world beater, but I would put money on him being an improvement over Pallante and maybe Miko.
As I said, when did adding three starters = not trying?
"Our Ace". Burleson is "our Silver Slugger". Which means a bunch of nothing.
Agree on Mikolas/Pallante, but that is quite the low bar.
Our ace was Gray.
He and Pallante are no longer in the rotation.
They were replaced with pitchers who had better eras in 2025.
So how again is this team not trying?
You know that the answers to this is more than 1.
Name recognition. Some pick May as the best pitcher that was obtained so far. While he might be the
least likely to pitch 100 innings in a Cardinals uniform. He's Fedde replacement. Fitts and Dobbins
replace Pallante and Mikolas. I asked the question of which 2 would one bet $10K on for the lowest
era in 2026.
They're #5 until proven otherwise as many are.
Most have never seen these guys pitch. Tidbit's of information along with sss gives us all we
get to project the future. IF those tidbits were more glowing some would think things are great.
Gray's era gets discounted comparative to the others even when he
could be the least likely to return to career era of 3.58. I wouldn't put good money on
him getting back to it.
For some players can improve or grow. They get labeled here by a few as jags when
small change can have big results.
Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?
Posted: 23 Dec 2025 14:37 pm
by Clubmaker2
They trash S Gray saying he didn't go deep enough and tout replacements of which none have pitched as many innings last season or this next season as he has pitched for the cardinals. Pitched enough to be Qualified starters nope.