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CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:19 pm

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:06 pm

CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 20:50 pm It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

Do you even want them here? Doesn't seem like any of you "BFIB" want, like or support them. Who gave up on who?

Schools suffering from shortages, infrastructure crumbling, property taxes going up but tax funded stadiums for billionaires should take precedence? Mercenaries go to the highest bidders. This team had plenty of support when they wanted to win but losing breeds indifference....and they know that.

Haven't been to Kansas City (MO) in a few years maybe 5, but last time I was there I had a good time. Things looked good, people seemed content and as happy as anywhere else. I think your question is better suited for the people of Kanas (the state). I'm on the opposite side of this, pro sports teams bring in revenues, they attract attention, make people feel good, bring a sense of pride to folks (if done right), and greatly impact communities. When i think of Kansas City, I think of the Chiefs and Royals. When I think of Kansas, I think of trash that really has nothing.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:32 pm

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:29 pm

CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:15 pm

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:09 pm

CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 20:50 pm It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

lol they’re moving like 20 miles. I don’t think Edwardsville is making a stadium play for the Cardinals.

Hey guess what, the 49ers don’t play in SF anymore either. And both NY football teams play in Jersey.

Your cool with teams abandoning their cities that they've played in for a long time. Cool for you I guess. They are moving like 20 miles....to another frigging state.

St. Louis to me means the Greater St. Louis Area, not the tiny 66 sq miles, under 300k population city boundary.

314 isn't suffering because of just the 66 sqmi...

1. That in no way was what we were discussing.
2. There are 9 area codes that make up the Greater St. Louis area so why you only focused on 314?

A little economics lesson: in STL, the wealth of the metro lives in Missouri. In KC, the wealth lives in Kansas (ignore KC, Kansas). Go where the money is; why robbers ply their trade in banks.

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:33 pm

CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:19 pm

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:06 pm

CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 20:50 pm It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

Do you even want them here? Doesn't seem like any of you "BFIB" want, like or support them. Who gave up on who?

Schools suffering from shortages, infrastructure crumbling, property taxes going up but tax funded stadiums for billionaires should take precedence? Mercenaries go to the highest bidders. This team had plenty of support when they wanted to win but losing breeds indifference....and they know that.

Haven't been to Kansas City (MO) in a few years maybe 5, but last time I was there I had a good time. Things looked good, people seemed content and as happy as anywhere else. I think your question is better suited for the people of Kanas (the state). I'm on the opposite side of this, pro sports teams bring in revenues, they attract attention, make people feel good, bring a sense of pride to folks (if done right), and greatly impact communities. When i think of Kansas City, I think of the Chiefs and Royals. When I think of Kansas, I think of trash that really has nothing.

It's been studied to death. Tax payer funded stadiums have a negative overall impact. With all that "revenue" which mostly goes to the owners, there also is added strain on infrastructure. More police presence, more services, more strain on traffic and trash collection. That's just a few of the things. There's no doubt that if brings in tourist revenue as well as an uptick in sales taxes and such, but that stadium has a life expectancy also. So in a decade or 15 years there will have to some some renovations and then the inevitable "we need a new tax payer funded stadium" cry.

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:29 pm

CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:15 pm

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:09 pm

CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 20:50 pm It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

lol they’re moving like 20 miles. I don’t think Edwardsville is making a stadium play for the Cardinals.

Hey guess what, the 49ers don’t play in SF anymore either. And both NY football teams play in Jersey.

Your cool with teams abandoning their cities that they've played in for a long time. Cool for you I guess. They are moving like 20 miles....to another frigging state.

St. Louis to me means the Greater St. Louis Area, not the tiny 66 sq miles, under 300k population city boundary.

If they move out of St Louis then they aren't the "St Louis Cardinals". Not to mention the impact the move will have on the downtown economy. All those workers can't or won't relocate. You just can't speak about a great and storied franchise the same if they move.

CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:51 pm

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:29 pm

CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:15 pm

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:09 pm

CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 20:50 pm It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

lol they’re moving like 20 miles. I don’t think Edwardsville is making a stadium play for the Cardinals.

Hey guess what, the 49ers don’t play in SF anymore either. And both NY football teams play in Jersey.

Your cool with teams abandoning their cities that they've played in for a long time. Cool for you I guess. They are moving like 20 miles....to another frigging state.

St. Louis to me means the Greater St. Louis Area, not the tiny 66 sq miles, under 300k population city boundary.

If they move out of St Louis then they aren't the "St Louis Cardinals". Not to mention the impact the move will have on the downtown economy. All those workers can't or won't relocate. You just can't speak about a great and storied franchise the same if they move.

lol if they move to another municipality within St. Louis County why would they still not be the St. Louis Cardinals?

It’s not the Santa Clara 49ers. Or Inglewood Rams. Or East Rutherford Jets/Giants. Or the Cobb County Braves.

Like chill. This is not a new thing. Plus, there’s not even any whispers of the Cardinals relocating or for sale. You’re getting worked up for nothing. They didn’t spend a decade building two phases of Ballpark Village just to pick up and leave.

CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:48 pm

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:33 pm

CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:19 pm

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:06 pm

CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 20:50 pm It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

Do you even want them here? Doesn't seem like any of you "BFIB" want, like or support them. Who gave up on who?

Schools suffering from shortages, infrastructure crumbling, property taxes going up but tax funded stadiums for billionaires should take precedence? Mercenaries go to the highest bidders. This team had plenty of support when they wanted to win but losing breeds indifference....and they know that.

Haven't been to Kansas City (MO) in a few years maybe 5, but last time I was there I had a good time. Things looked good, people seemed content and as happy as anywhere else. I think your question is better suited for the people of Kanas (the state). I'm on the opposite side of this, pro sports teams bring in revenues, they attract attention, make people feel good, bring a sense of pride to folks (if done right), and greatly impact communities. When i think of Kansas City, I think of the Chiefs and Royals. When I think of Kansas, I think of trash that really has nothing.

It's been studied to death. Tax payer funded stadiums have a negative overall impact. With all that "revenue" which mostly goes to the owners, there also is added strain on infrastructure. More police presence, more services, more strain on traffic and trash collection. That's just a few of the things. There's no doubt that if brings in tourist revenue as well as an uptick in sales taxes and such, but that stadium has a life expectancy also. So in a decade or 15 years there will have to some some renovations and then the inevitable "we need a new tax payer funded stadium" cry.

Fair enough and I respect your point. This to me isn't necessarily about economics, it's about quality of life and I ask you to respect my point. What is economically beneficial to planting trees, creating a beautiful public park, improving roads and bridges to make them just look better when completely functional etc?

IT MAKES PEOPLE HAPPY!

Maybe it's not the most economically best thing (which is need to investigate) but people want it. Let's look at a bigger picture and include the variables. Do people want nicer things or just what is the best economically? I bet big bucks people and fans want nicer neighborhoods with fun activities far more than just what is best economically. Why would anyone buy the TV that is cool VS a piece of TV that you can watch the same game on? Why would anyone want a 1995 pick up truck VS. A 2026 model? It's kind of better because it makes them feel better.

Now if the Cardinals relocate to a new stadium across the river , we could have the East St. Louis Cardinals ..
Then both the KC Chiefs and E. St. Louis Cardinals will be located in states other than Missouri.

If the Cardinals relocated to Nashville , then you could have the AAA Memphis Redbirds and Nashville Cardinals just 3 hours apart.
You could call a AAA player 'up' in the morning and he could be ready for the big league game that same evening. Sweet !

ramfandan wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 23:09 pm Now if the Cardinals relocate to a new stadium across the river , we could have the East St. Louis Cardinals ..
Then both the KC Chiefs and E. St. Louis Cardinals will be located in states other than Missouri.

F that, let's build a Disneyland in East St.Louis, turn the bad area into the happiest place on earth. Think bigger. Let's make St. Louis the best! Busch and ballpark village is awesome, we need more attractions and more people visiting.

CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:20 pm

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:05 pm

CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 20:50 pm It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

The Kansas City Chiefs will still be the Kansas City Chiefs. It’s basically if the Cardinals decided to build their next stadium in Chesterfield.

So it's okay to move a franchise if the "billionaire" owners can get a tax funded stadium and a better deal huh. Wow.

Are sports teams any different than any other business? You run your business where it is most efficient and profitable to run it. So yea, its ok. How far might not be preferable to the fans, but it is a business. Like another poster said. 2 of NYs football teams play in NJ. Their fans DONT CARE . They still sell out every game.

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:05 pm

CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 20:50 pm It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

The Kansas City Chiefs will still be the Kansas City Chiefs. It’s basically if the Cardinals decided to build their next stadium in Chesterfield.

More like Edwardsville, but point is taken.

KC Chiefs started out as the Dallas Texans.

CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:15 pm

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:09 pm

CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 20:50 pm It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

lol they’re moving like 20 miles. I don’t think Edwardsville is making a stadium play for the Cardinals.

Hey guess what, the 49ers don’t play in SF anymore either. And both NY football teams play in Jersey.

Your cool with teams abandoning their cities that they've played in for a long time. Cool for you I guess. They are moving like 20 miles....to another frigging state.

Why would I care if the Cardinals moved to East St. Louis?

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:26 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:21 pm

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:05 pm

CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 20:50 pm It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

The Kansas City Chiefs will still be the Kansas City Chiefs. It’s basically if the Cardinals decided to build their next stadium in Chesterfield.

No. There was never an historically deadly border war between Chestfield and STL.

I think we can move on from the Civil War at this point don’t you think? Not only is nobody on earth alive from when that happened, I guarantee you don’t know anybody who knew anybody that was alive then.

Oh come on that challenge is easy. My grandparents were born between 1906 and 1910. There grandparent were born before the civil war started. So there are tons of people around who knew people who knew people that were alive then. When I was in college, our fraternity house cook was a soldier in WWI. He was really old and hated a lot of people because of what happened to him during that war and the aftermath. Yes, that history was a long time ago, but, as we get older, a few generations can span a lot of history.

I don't think the Cardinals are moving. I have mixed feelings about the Chiefs moving. There is some prestige to our state to have a team. But, I rarely go to KC, so it doesn't directly impact me. To some degree, I am happy MO is not footing the bill.

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 01:23 am

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:26 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:21 pm

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:05 pm

CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 20:50 pm It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

The Kansas City Chiefs will still be the Kansas City Chiefs. It’s basically if the Cardinals decided to build their next stadium in Chesterfield.

No. There was never an historically deadly border war between Chestfield and STL.

I think we can move on from the Civil War at this point don’t you think? Not only is nobody on earth alive from when that happened, I guarantee you don’t know anybody who knew anybody that was alive then.

Oh come on that challenge is easy. My grandparents were born between 1906 and 1910. There grandparent were born before the civil war started. So there are tons of people around who knew people who knew people that were alive then. When I was in college, our fraternity house cook was a soldier in WWI. He was really old and hated a lot of people because of what happened to him during that war and the aftermath. Yes, that history was a long time ago, but, as we get older, a few generations can span a lot of history.

I don't think the Cardinals are moving. I have mixed feelings about the Chiefs moving. There is some prestige to our state to have a team. But, I rarely go to KC, so it doesn't directly impact me. To some degree, I am happy MO is not footing the bill.

I have no use for the Chiefs, so I don't care that they're moving to wherever. And I'm very happy the state of Missouri is not helping to bankroll a new stadium for them. There are a lot better uses for our tax money than for subsidizing billionaires.