STLtoday.com

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:30 pm Contreras turns 34 in May. By trading him now we get something.

Fodder

I love this trade. With recent moves involving Red Sox players, we basically added two young starting pitchers and a couple of lottery ticket young pitchers with upside and Dustin May for the cost of $35 million ($20 million for Gray and 8 Million for Contreras along with 12 million for May ). We would have spent 52 million this year for Gray and Contreras alone. This trade also opens up 1st Base for Burleson or Herrera or a combination of the two. Contreras was a fine player but we can lose just as well without him as we did with him and now we have less of a logjam for the players who need to play full time and prove themselves in 2026.

Bob Kunush wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 21:23 pm I love this trade. With recent moves involving Red Sox players, we basically added two young starting pitchers and a couple of lottery ticket young pitchers with upside and Dustin May for the cost of $35 million ($20 million for Gray and 8 Million for Contreras along with 12 million for May ). We would have spent 52 million this year for Gray and Contreras alone. This trade also opens up 1st Base for Burleson or Herrera or a combination of the two. Contreras was a fine player but we can lose just as well without him as we did with him and now we have less of a logjam for the players who need to play full time and prove themselves in 2026.

oh don't worry - we'll be doing plenty of losing

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 21:22 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:30 pm Contreras turns 34 in May. By trading him now we get something.

Fodder

Dobbins is pitch to contact. Certainly not an ace but he could be a viable MLB pitcher. Fajardo is young but he has very good numbers for his age in the low minors.

I like the deal. Certainly better than nothing.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 06:36 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 21:22 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:30 pm Contreras turns 34 in May. By trading him now we get something.

Fodder

Dobbins is pitch to contact. Certainly not an ace but he could be a viable MLB pitcher. Fajardo is young but he has very good numbers for his age in the low minors.

I like the deal. Certainly better than nothing.

I'm less excited about Dobbins, but the upside of the two prospects is interesting.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 07:17 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 06:36 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 21:22 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:30 pm Contreras turns 34 in May. By trading him now we get something.

Fodder

Dobbins is pitch to contact. Certainly not an ace but he could be a viable MLB pitcher. Fajardo is young but he has very good numbers for his age in the low minors.

I like the deal. Certainly better than nothing.

I'm less excited about Dobbins, but the upside of the two prospects is interesting.

Dobbins is better than Pallante and they have 5 years of control. Sure nothing to be excited about but quality 4/5 starters don't grow on trees, as the Cardinals themselves have demonstrated the last few years.

Also he struck out a lot more in the minors, 9 K/9 overall... so stands to reason there's more K-power there than what was seen in his first 61 MLB innings which got shortened by a leg injury.

3dender wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 07:45 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 07:17 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 06:36 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 21:22 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:30 pm Contreras turns 34 in May. By trading him now we get something.

Fodder

Dobbins is pitch to contact. Certainly not an ace but he could be a viable MLB pitcher. Fajardo is young but he has very good numbers for his age in the low minors.

I like the deal. Certainly better than nothing.

I'm less excited about Dobbins, but the upside of the two prospects is interesting.

Dobbins is better than Pallante and they have 5 years of control. Sure nothing to be excited about but quality 4/5 starters don't grow on trees, as the Cardinals themselves have demonstrated the last few years.

Also he struck out a lot more in the minors, 9 K/9 overall... so stands to reason there's more K-power there than what was seen in his first 61 MLB innings which got shortened by a leg injury.

That may be. I thought I looked him up and didn't see a lot of K/9 even in his minor league stats but I'll check again.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 06:36 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 21:22 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:30 pm Contreras turns 34 in May. By trading him now we get something.

Fodder

Dobbins is pitch to contact. Certainly not an ace but he could be a viable MLB pitcher. Fajardo is young but he has very good numbers for his age in the low minors.

I like the deal. Certainly better than nothing.

Keeping WillyCon isn't nothing

Only leader on the team.

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 07:53 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 06:36 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 21:22 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:30 pm Contreras turns 34 in May. By trading him now we get something.

Fodder

Dobbins is pitch to contact. Certainly not an ace but he could be a viable MLB pitcher. Fajardo is young but he has very good numbers for his age in the low minors.

I like the deal. Certainly better than nothing.

Keeping WillyCon isn't nothing

Only leader on the team.

If drama is leadership maybe we should hire some Hollywood actors.

3dender wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 07:45 amDobbins is better than Pallante and they have 5 years of control. Sure nothing to be excited about but quality 4/5 starters don't grow on trees, as the Cardinals themselves have demonstrated the last few years.

Also he struck out a lot more in the minors, 9 K/9 overall... so stands to reason there's more K-power there than what was seen in his first 61 MLB innings which got shortened by a leg injury.

I agree. Fajardo is the most interesting to me. Seems to have a lot of upside. I haven't read much about Aita. I know not a lot of people thought much of Zac Gallen and Sandy Alcantera when we traded for them, so you never know.

And while I may not be "excited" by Dobbins, I like that we are building starting pitching depth. Like you said, I'd rather not depend on Pallante if we don't have to. But if you get a nice base of inexpensive mid to bottom rotation starters, and then are able to produce a few higher caliber pitchers, that is a great thing. As much as I loved Contreras, it's the right thing to do.

And yea, before he tore his ACL on a freak thing he was pitching pretty good. It looks like he's about to start throwing bullpens, so he appears on track to start the season, or be very close to doing so.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 08:13 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 07:53 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 06:36 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 21:22 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:30 pm Contreras turns 34 in May. By trading him now we get something.

Fodder

Dobbins is pitch to contact. Certainly not an ace but he could be a viable MLB pitcher. Fajardo is young but he has very good numbers for his age in the low minors.

I like the deal. Certainly better than nothing.

Keeping WillyCon isn't nothing

Only leader on the team.

If drama is leadership maybe we should hire some Hollywood actors.

Sure. Passion, caring and drive is drama. Doing whatever the team asks of him...that's drama.

Outstanding.

Who is the leader of the team and why?

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 08:17 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 08:13 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 07:53 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 06:36 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 21:22 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:30 pm Contreras turns 34 in May. By trading him now we get something.

Fodder

Dobbins is pitch to contact. Certainly not an ace but he could be a viable MLB pitcher. Fajardo is young but he has very good numbers for his age in the low minors.

I like the deal. Certainly better than nothing.

Keeping WillyCon isn't nothing

Only leader on the team.

If drama is leadership maybe we should hire some Hollywood actors.

Sure. Passion, caring and drive is drama. Doing whatever the team asks of him...that's drama.

Outstanding.

Who is the leader of the team and why?

Gets hit deliberately on the elbow pad and then blames his teammates. That's drama.

I liked Willy's energy and attitude. Thought it was refreshing to have someone with that fire inside the clubhouse. That said, that "fire" also came with quite a bit of immaturity. That's fine when you have established, respected, vocal vets like Waino and Yadi around. But, i'm not sure Willy was the vet leader I would have wanted leading that clubhouse into a rebuild. Now keeping Donnie might just be a necessity.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 08:51 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 08:17 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 08:13 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 07:53 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 06:36 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 21:22 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:30 pm Contreras turns 34 in May. By trading him now we get something.

Fodder

Dobbins is pitch to contact. Certainly not an ace but he could be a viable MLB pitcher. Fajardo is young but he has very good numbers for his age in the low minors.

I like the deal. Certainly better than nothing.

Keeping WillyCon isn't nothing

Only leader on the team.

If drama is leadership maybe we should hire some Hollywood actors.

Sure. Passion, caring and drive is drama. Doing whatever the team asks of him...that's drama.

Outstanding.

Who is the leader of the team and why?

Gets hit deliberately on the elbow pad and then blames his teammates. That's drama.

Most of us weren’t against them trading Willson, but were expecting something different in return. A pitcher with a history of injuries, who, when healthy, projects as a bottom of the rotation pitcher, and two lottery tickets, who are 3, or 4 years away.

Hoosier59 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 08:58 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 08:51 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 08:17 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 08:13 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 07:53 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 06:36 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 21:22 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:30 pm Contreras turns 34 in May. By trading him now we get something.

Fodder

Dobbins is pitch to contact. Certainly not an ace but he could be a viable MLB pitcher. Fajardo is young but he has very good numbers for his age in the low minors.

I like the deal. Certainly better than nothing.

Keeping WillyCon isn't nothing

Only leader on the team.

If drama is leadership maybe we should hire some Hollywood actors.

Sure. Passion, caring and drive is drama. Doing whatever the team asks of him...that's drama.

Outstanding.

Who is the leader of the team and why?

Gets hit deliberately on the elbow pad and then blames his teammates. That's drama.

Most of us weren’t against them trading Willson, but were expecting something different in return. A pitcher with a history of injuries, who, when healthy, projects as a bottom of the rotation pitcher, and two lottery tickets, who are 3, or 4 years away.

Apparently this is how you “Rebuild”…..you add younger and much cheaper to your already stockpile of middling talent. I’m still learning

Bob Kunush wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 21:23 pm I love this trade. With recent moves involving Red Sox players, we basically added two young starting pitchers and a couple of lottery ticket young pitchers with upside and Dustin May for the cost of $35 million ($20 million for Gray and 8 Million for Contreras along with 12 million for May ). We would have spent 52 million this year for Gray and Contreras alone. This trade also opens up 1st Base for Burleson or Herrera or a combination of the two. Contreras was a fine player but we can lose just as well without him as we did with him and now we have less of a logjam for the players who need to play full time and prove themselves in 2026.

Exactly!
Any time you move on from vets in favor of youth there is a drop off the next season as the youth has not arrived.
It does open up more PT to the guys that are already with the club.
In this case Walker/Gorman/Saggese and also probably Crooks and JJ.
My guess is Burleson begins the season at 1B?
Herrera will be a season long project position wise as other Catching prospects will be emerging.
2026 might not be great record wise but it will be interesting.