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Re: Two huge factors in the Cardinals being better in '26
Posted: 18 Dec 2025 17:08 pm
by NYCardsFan
hugeCardfan wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 16:59 pm
NYCardsFan wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 16:45 pm
Shady wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 16:37 pm
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 15:49 pm
I see a different two factors. Fedde and Mikolas (and even Pallante). We're a bit unsettled right now, so we'll see how things come together, but how much of a stretch is it to gain 10-15 games through those rotation spots?
At least 10.
Mikolas and Fedde were both replacement level pitchers last year (0.3 and 0.0 fWAR, respectively). Please tell us what two starting pitchers the Cardinals realistically can add who will contribute “at least 10” fWAR in 2026. Be specific.
I'd like an increase of 1 WAR from 6 position players and 4 WAR from pitching. Say 2 WAR from May, 1 WAR from Fitts and 1 WAR from Liberatore.
Unfortunately, those hypothetical increases in pitching fWAR would just barely offset what they lost with Gray.
Re: Two huge factors in the Cardinals being better in '26
Posted: 18 Dec 2025 17:10 pm
by NYCardsFan
craviduce wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 17:02 pm
NYCardsFan wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 16:45 pm
Shady wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 16:37 pm
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 15:49 pm
I see a different two factors. Fedde and Mikolas (and even Pallante). We're a bit unsettled right now, so we'll see how things come together, but how much of a stretch is it to gain 10-15 games through those rotation spots?
At least 10.
Mikolas and Fedde were both replacement level pitchers last year (0.3 and 0.0 fWAR, respectively). Please tell us what two starting pitchers the Cardinals realistically can add who will contribute “at least 10” fWAR in 2026. Be specific.
and we lost at least 3.5 WAR with the Gray trade...even if Fitts optimistically produces at least 1 WAR, you have to account for another 2.5 WAR.
Yep. For the sake of discussion, I’m slotting in May as Gray’s replacement. May’s career high in fWAR: 1.3.
Re: Two huge factors in the Cardinals being better in '26
Posted: 18 Dec 2025 17:13 pm
by craviduce
NYCardsFan wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 17:08 pm
hugeCardfan wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 16:59 pm
NYCardsFan wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 16:45 pm
Shady wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 16:37 pm
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 15:49 pm
I see a different two factors. Fedde and Mikolas (and even Pallante). We're a bit unsettled right now, so we'll see how things come together, but how much of a stretch is it to gain 10-15 games through those rotation spots?
At least 10.
Mikolas and Fedde were both replacement level pitchers last year (0.3 and 0.0 fWAR, respectively). Please tell us what two starting pitchers the Cardinals realistically can add who will contribute “at least 10” fWAR in 2026. Be specific.
I'd like an increase of 1 WAR from 6 position players and 4 WAR from pitching. Say 2 WAR from May, 1 WAR from Fitts and 1 WAR from Liberatore.
Unfortunately, those hypothetical increases in pitching fWAR would just barely offset what they lost with Gray.
if the Pirates and Reds were the normal Pirates and Reds heading into 2026, we would have a chance, probably a decent one, to approach those WAR numbers, but those two teams are on the way up...especially with their pitching. I don't see us out-dueling either very often. And both have expressed interest in improving their offense this offseason...we haven't....which is the real crux we aren't addressing with this OP...AGAIN.
Re: Two huge factors in the Cardinals being better in '26
Posted: 18 Dec 2025 17:54 pm
by Shady
craviduce wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 17:13 pm
NYCardsFan wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 17:08 pm
hugeCardfan wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 16:59 pm
NYCardsFan wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 16:45 pm
Shady wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 16:37 pm
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 15:49 pm
I see a different two factors. Fedde and Mikolas (and even Pallante). We're a bit unsettled right now, so we'll see how things come together, but how much of a stretch is it to gain 10-15 games through those rotation spots?
At least 10.
Mikolas and Fedde were both replacement level pitchers last year (0.3 and 0.0 fWAR, respectively). Please tell us what two starting pitchers the Cardinals realistically can add who will contribute “at least 10” fWAR in 2026. Be specific.
I'd like an increase of 1 WAR from 6 position players and 4 WAR from pitching. Say 2 WAR from May, 1 WAR from Fitts and 1 WAR from Liberatore.
Unfortunately, those hypothetical increases in pitching fWAR would just barely offset what they lost with Gray.
if the Pirates and Reds were the normal Pirates and Reds heading into 2026, we would have a chance, probably a decent one, to approach those WAR numbers, but those two teams are on the way up...especially with their pitching. I don't see us out-dueling either very often. And both have expressed interest in improving their offense this offseason...we haven't....which is the real crux we aren't addressing with this OP...AGAIN.
Good assessment of the starting pitching situation, But the OP holds true. However, If the Cardinals insist on playing Gorman and Walker. They simply have to be more productive in order for the Cardinals to improve much. You kind of addressed that in a different manner.
Re: Two huge factors in the Cardinals being better in '26
Posted: 18 Dec 2025 18:00 pm
by Kljwhite
I would like to see a Nootbarr for Bobby Miller from the Dodgers trade. And a two year deal to Miquel Andujar for a additional righty bat.
Re: Two huge factors in the Cardinals being better in '26
Posted: 18 Dec 2025 18:01 pm
by Shady
Kljwhite wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 18:00 pm
I would like to see a Nootbarr for Bobby Miller from the Dodgers trade. And a two year deal to Miquel Andujar for a additional righty bat.
How could Nootbaar get Miller?
Re: Two huge factors in the Cardinals being better in '26
Posted: 18 Dec 2025 18:02 pm
by Mort Gage
Shady wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 17:54 pm
craviduce wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 17:13 pm
NYCardsFan wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 17:08 pm
hugeCardfan wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 16:59 pm
NYCardsFan wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 16:45 pm
Shady wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 16:37 pm
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 15:49 pm
I see a different two factors. Fedde and Mikolas (and even Pallante). We're a bit unsettled right now, so we'll see how things come together, but how much of a stretch is it to gain 10-15 games through those rotation spots?
At least 10.
Mikolas and Fedde were both replacement level pitchers last year (0.3 and 0.0 fWAR, respectively). Please tell us what two starting pitchers the Cardinals realistically can add who will contribute “at least 10” fWAR in 2026. Be specific.
I'd like an increase of 1 WAR from 6 position players and 4 WAR from pitching. Say 2 WAR from May, 1 WAR from Fitts and 1 WAR from Liberatore.
Unfortunately, those hypothetical increases in pitching fWAR would just barely offset what they lost with Gray.
if the Pirates and Reds were the normal Pirates and Reds heading into 2026, we would have a chance, probably a decent one, to approach those WAR numbers, but those two teams are on the way up...especially with their pitching. I don't see us out-dueling either very often. And both have expressed interest in improving their offense this offseason...we haven't....which is the real crux we aren't addressing with this OP...AGAIN.
Good assessment of the starting pitching situation, But the OP holds true. If the Cardinals insist on playing Gorman and Walker. They simply have to be more productive in order for the Cardinals to improve much. You kind of addressed that in a different manner.
I thought craviduce was on your "Ad Foe" list. Unless if that was lie #3489. I guess when he posts something you don't like he'll be back on said "Ad Foe" list.
And that was some really deep stuff about Gorman and Walker, bro. Keep it coming.
Re: Two huge factors in the Cardinals being better in '26
Posted: 18 Dec 2025 18:02 pm
by NYCardsFan
Shady wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 17:54 pm
craviduce wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 17:13 pm
NYCardsFan wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 17:08 pm
hugeCardfan wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 16:59 pm
NYCardsFan wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 16:45 pm
Shady wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 16:37 pm
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 15:49 pm
I see a different two factors. Fedde and Mikolas (and even Pallante). We're a bit unsettled right now, so we'll see how things come together, but how much of a stretch is it to gain 10-15 games through those rotation spots?
At least 10.
Mikolas and Fedde were both replacement level pitchers last year (0.3 and 0.0 fWAR, respectively). Please tell us what two starting pitchers the Cardinals realistically can add who will contribute “at least 10” fWAR in 2026. Be specific.
I'd like an increase of 1 WAR from 6 position players and 4 WAR from pitching. Say 2 WAR from May, 1 WAR from Fitts and 1 WAR from Liberatore.
Unfortunately, those hypothetical increases in pitching fWAR would just barely offset what they lost with Gray.
if the Pirates and Reds were the normal Pirates and Reds heading into 2026, we would have a chance, probably a decent one, to approach those WAR numbers, but those two teams are on the way up...especially with their pitching. I don't see us out-dueling either very often. And both have expressed interest in improving their offense this offseason...we haven't....which is the real crux we aren't addressing with this OP...AGAIN.
Good assessment of the starting pitching situation,
But the OP holds true. If the Cardinals insist on playing Gorman and Walker. They simply have to be more productive in order for the Cardinals to improve much.
Re: Two huge factors in the Cardinals being better in '26
Posted: 18 Dec 2025 18:34 pm
by DFW Cards Fan
The Cardinals don't need to be better. They need to be worse. Much worse. Ideally they're one of the worst teams in the league but they get answers on some of the not-so-young-anymore guys like Gorman and Walker and in September some of the prospects start coming up and play well. Since we're eligible for the lottery again now after that #13 garbage we just got, we can get a top 5 pick to add to the upcoming crop. Maybe even trade May at the deadline for more if he is doing well. No point in not getting a good 2027 pick to be mediocre in 2026 with a lockout looming.
Re: Two huge factors in the Cardinals being better in '26
Posted: 18 Dec 2025 19:22 pm
by craviduce
With the likely departure of Donovan and Contreras, the 6-7 WAR those two represent shouldn't be solely on Walker and Gorman...there's a slim chance they can cover it, but...no, there's not. The entire team will have to be better to cover those two losses, THEN we'll need another 5 or 6 WAR to get your "10 win better scenario". You're looking at an 11-13 WAR needed gain to compensate the loss of those two, and cover their share of your "10 win better season"....you can't expect the pitching to cover all 10 wins...not when you lost Gray.
We one of the worst offensive productive teams in the majors last year...it's not currently in the Cards. Not in an expected stronger division
The numbers don't add up.
Re: Two huge factors in the Cardinals being better in '26
Posted: 18 Dec 2025 19:39 pm
by JuanAgosto
Big turnarounds by Walker and Gorman would help tremendously. But im not sold Gorman is the 3b in 2026. According to oli, Walker will be in StL to start the season.
Something else that would help is adding one legitimate starting pitcher. Roll into 2026 with Liberatore, May, addition, McGreevy, and Fitts/Leahy.
Re: Two huge factors in the Cardinals being better in '26
Posted: 18 Dec 2025 19:54 pm
by zuck698
craviduce wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 19:22 pm
With the likely departure of Donovan and Contreras, the 6-7 WAR those two represent shouldn't be solely on Walker and Gorman...there's a slim chance they can cover it, but...no, there's not. The entire team will have to be better to cover those two losses, THEN we'll need another 5 or 6 WAR to get your "10 win better scenario". You're looking at an 11-13 WAR needed gain to compensate the loss of those two, and cover their share of your "10 win better season"....you can't expect the pitching to cover all 10 wins...not when you lost Gray.
We one of the worst offensive productive teams in the majors last year...it's not currently in the Cards. Not in an expected stronger division
The numbers don't add up.
I am not sure you are taking into consideration Cravs, the Burly effect. He is going into his age 27 season, and remember he is a young Joey Votto. Votto had a 5.8 WAR in his age 27 season, so I would expect that the Utility Slugger will at least be able to achieve that or maybe even more.
Re: Two huge factors in the Cardinals being better in '26
Posted: 18 Dec 2025 20:01 pm
by Adam2
Shady wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 15:24 pm
HorseTrader wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 15:12 pm
Absolut wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 14:39 pm
Water is wet, but doesn’t get its own thread.
Shady is soaked has thousands of thread, unfortunately
I suppose the real question is - What is Shady soaked in? I'll let you all figure that out, not sure I want to know
Soak this. You are an "Add foe". Good riddance.
You're running out of company to talk with. Im sure he's devastated just as I was
Re: Two huge factors in the Cardinals being better in '26
Posted: 18 Dec 2025 20:33 pm
by Bushiro
HorseTrader wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 15:12 pm
Absolut wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 14:39 pm
Water is wet, but doesn’t get its own thread.
Shady is soaked has thousands of thread, unfortunately
I suppose the real question is - What is Shady soaked in? I'll let you all figure that out, not sure I want to know
I still can't believe he's not a 13 or 14 year old kid posting on here...
Re: Two huge factors in the Cardinals being better in '26
Posted: 18 Dec 2025 20:41 pm
by Bushiro
craviduce wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 19:22 pm
With the likely departure of Donovan and Contreras, the 6-7 WAR those two represent shouldn't be solely on Walker and Gorman...there's a slim chance they can cover it, but...no, there's not. The entire team will have to be better to cover those two losses, THEN we'll need another 5 or 6 WAR to get your "10 win better scenario". You're looking at an 11-13 WAR needed gain to compensate the loss of those two, and cover their share of your "10 win better season"....you can't expect the pitching to cover all 10 wins...not when you lost Gray.
We one of the worst offensive productive teams in the majors last year...it's not currently in the Cards. Not in an expected stronger division
The numbers don't add up.
Absolutely spot on...look at it which ever way you want...the numbers simply do not add up... to that many more wins this upcoming season...
Re: Two huge factors in the Cardinals being better in '26
Posted: 18 Dec 2025 20:43 pm
by dugoutrex
craviduce wrote: ↑18 Dec 2025 19:22 pm
With the likely departure of Donovan and Contreras, the 6-7 WAR those two represent shouldn't be solely on Walker and Gorman...there's a slim chance they can cover it, but...no, there's not. The entire team will have to be better to cover those two losses, THEN we'll need another 5 or 6 WAR to get your "10 win better scenario". You're looking at an 11-13 WAR needed gain to compensate the loss of those two, and cover their share of your "10 win better season"....you can't expect the pitching to cover all 10 wins...not when you lost Gray.
We one of the worst offensive productive teams in the majors last year...it's not currently in the Cards. Not in an expected stronger division
The numbers don't add up.
they add up to about 68 wins