rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 09:48 amIn a re-build birdlover you deal off most of your tradeable assets that you don't see fitting into you LT plans.
Right now JoJo is at the peak of his trade value coming off a strong season and w/years of control, in a couple years when the Cardinals (hopefully) are ready to compete he'll be in his low 30's and making decent money.
RP are a volatile breed to begin with, JoJo could also easily slip in 2026 and lower his future trade value.
You don't give him away but you also don't hold on to him if the right deal materializes.
This is exactly right. We aren't planning on being competitive right now and he'll be a free agent in 2027. You need to get as much for him as you can at this point.
And yes, I don't think it is a good idea to extend relievers to big contracts. You can usually find relievers anywhere. And, yes, if he gets hurt, or melts down in 2026, then you have nothing to show for him. And if you extend him, there's a good chance he sucks for the next few years. Relievers are pretty volatile as it is and JoJo already saw his walk rate shoot back up to where he was when the Phillies traded for him, so he might already be trending down.
Thx ronnie
To me dealing JoJo is a no-brainer.
I'd even package him w/Donovan, which could be the best use of JoJo, if it meant a great return!
rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 09:48 amIn a re-build birdlover you deal off most of your tradeable assets that you don't see fitting into you LT plans.
Right now JoJo is at the peak of his trade value coming off a strong season and w/years of control, in a couple years when the Cardinals (hopefully) are ready to compete he'll be in his low 30's and making decent money.
RP are a volatile breed to begin with, JoJo could also easily slip in 2026 and lower his future trade value.
You don't give him away but you also don't hold on to him if the right deal materializes.
This is exactly right. We aren't planning on being competitive right now and he'll be a free agent in 2027. You need to get as much for him as you can at this point.
And yes, I don't think it is a good idea to extend relievers to big contracts. You can usually find relievers anywhere. And, yes, if he gets hurt, or melts down in 2026, then you have nothing to show for him. And if you extend him, there's a good chance he sucks for the next few years. Relievers are pretty volatile as it is and JoJo already saw his walk rate shoot back up to where he was when the Phillies traded for him, so he might already be trending down.
Thx ronnie
To me dealing JoJo is a no-brainer.
I'd even package him w/Donovan, which could be the best use of JoJo, if it meant a great return!
This is the best way to move Romero. In any larger trade, if we have moved the other team a little past their puke point and we really like the return, adding Romero could move the needle. (Chalk up a save for Romero)
rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 09:48 amIn a re-build birdlover you deal off most of your tradeable assets that you don't see fitting into you LT plans.
Right now JoJo is at the peak of his trade value coming off a strong season and w/years of control, in a couple years when the Cardinals (hopefully) are ready to compete he'll be in his low 30's and making decent money.
RP are a volatile breed to begin with, JoJo could also easily slip in 2026 and lower his future trade value.
You don't give him away but you also don't hold on to him if the right deal materializes.
This is exactly right. We aren't planning on being competitive right now and he'll be a free agent in 2027. You need to get as much for him as you can at this point.
And yes, I don't think it is a good idea to extend relievers to big contracts. You can usually find relievers anywhere. And, yes, if he gets hurt, or melts down in 2026, then you have nothing to show for him. And if you extend him, there's a good chance he sucks for the next few years. Relievers are pretty volatile as it is and JoJo already saw his walk rate shoot back up to where he was when the Phillies traded for him, so he might already be trending down.
Thx ronnie
To me dealing JoJo is a no-brainer.
I'd even package him w/Donovan, which could be the best use of JoJo, if it meant a great return!
This is the best way to move Romero. In any larger trade, if we have moved the other team a little past their puke point and we really like the return, adding Romero could move the needle. (Chalk up a save for Romero)
rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 09:48 amIn a re-build birdlover you deal off most of your tradeable assets that you don't see fitting into you LT plans.
Right now JoJo is at the peak of his trade value coming off a strong season and w/years of control, in a couple years when the Cardinals (hopefully) are ready to compete he'll be in his low 30's and making decent money.
RP are a volatile breed to begin with, JoJo could also easily slip in 2026 and lower his future trade value.
You don't give him away but you also don't hold on to him if the right deal materializes.
This is exactly right. We aren't planning on being competitive right now and he'll be a free agent in 2027. You need to get as much for him as you can at this point.
And yes, I don't think it is a good idea to extend relievers to big contracts. You can usually find relievers anywhere. And, yes, if he gets hurt, or melts down in 2026, then you have nothing to show for him. And if you extend him, there's a good chance he sucks for the next few years. Relievers are pretty volatile as it is and JoJo already saw his walk rate shoot back up to where he was when the Phillies traded for him, so he might already be trending down.
Thx ronnie
To me dealing JoJo is a no-brainer.
I'd even package him w/Donovan, which could be the best use of JoJo, if it meant a great return!
This is the best way to move Romero. In any larger trade, if we have moved the other team a little past their puke point and we really like the return, adding Romero could move the needle. (Chalk up a save for Romero)
rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 09:48 amIn a re-build birdlover you deal off most of your tradeable assets that you don't see fitting into you LT plans.
Right now JoJo is at the peak of his trade value coming off a strong season and w/years of control, in a couple years when the Cardinals (hopefully) are ready to compete he'll be in his low 30's and making decent money.
RP are a volatile breed to begin with, JoJo could also easily slip in 2026 and lower his future trade value.
You don't give him away but you also don't hold on to him if the right deal materializes.
This is exactly right. We aren't planning on being competitive right now and he'll be a free agent in 2027. You need to get as much for him as you can at this point.
And yes, I don't think it is a good idea to extend relievers to big contracts. You can usually find relievers anywhere. And, yes, if he gets hurt, or melts down in 2026, then you have nothing to show for him. And if you extend him, there's a good chance he sucks for the next few years. Relievers are pretty volatile as it is and JoJo already saw his walk rate shoot back up to where he was when the Phillies traded for him, so he might already be trending down.
Thx ronnie
To me dealing JoJo is a no-brainer.
I'd even package him w/Donovan, which could be the best use of JoJo, if it meant a great return!
This is the best way to move Romero. In any larger trade, if we have moved the other team a little past their puke point and we really like the return, adding Romero could move the needle. (Chalk up a save for Romero)
rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 09:48 amIn a re-build birdlover you deal off most of your tradeable assets that you don't see fitting into you LT plans.
Right now JoJo is at the peak of his trade value coming off a strong season and w/years of control, in a couple years when the Cardinals (hopefully) are ready to compete he'll be in his low 30's and making decent money.
RP are a volatile breed to begin with, JoJo could also easily slip in 2026 and lower his future trade value.
You don't give him away but you also don't hold on to him if the right deal materializes.
This is exactly right. We aren't planning on being competitive right now and he'll be a free agent in 2027. You need to get as much for him as you can at this point.
And yes, I don't think it is a good idea to extend relievers to big contracts. You can usually find relievers anywhere. And, yes, if he gets hurt, or melts down in 2026, then you have nothing to show for him. And if you extend him, there's a good chance he sucks for the next few years. Relievers are pretty volatile as it is and JoJo already saw his walk rate shoot back up to where he was when the Phillies traded for him, so he might already be trending down.
Thx ronnie
To me dealing JoJo is a no-brainer.
I'd even package him w/Donovan, which could be the best use of JoJo, if it meant a great return!
This is the best way to move Romero. In any larger trade, if we have moved the other team a little past their puke point and we really like the return, adding Romero could move the needle. (Chalk up a save for Romero)
For sure TB
Donny + JoJo = Best possible return!
As I have correctly advised before, now is the time for Bloom to think big. Add Mathew, or Bernal, or Hence, or Walker, or Mootbaar, or Pallante to the Donovan and Romero to tandem in whatever combinations work to produce not just one, but potentially two blockbuster deals to transform the organization in a blink.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
I also like Jojo better as a deal sweetener than a deal unto his own.
Outside of the Dodgers paying closer money to closer pitchers to pitch the sixth inning...who doesn't need a lefty reliever who has pretty good late-inning experience and even a smatter of closing experience? I don't think that brings back anything too noteworthy in a trade. But if it's the difference between getting a team's 7th best prospect and their 3rd or 4th best? I like that better than getting...say...a 20th best prospect.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 09:48 amIn a re-build birdlover you deal off most of your tradeable assets that you don't see fitting into you LT plans.
Right now JoJo is at the peak of his trade value coming off a strong season and w/years of control, in a couple years when the Cardinals (hopefully) are ready to compete he'll be in his low 30's and making decent money.
RP are a volatile breed to begin with, JoJo could also easily slip in 2026 and lower his future trade value.
You don't give him away but you also don't hold on to him if the right deal materializes.
This is exactly right. We aren't planning on being competitive right now and he'll be a free agent in 2027. You need to get as much for him as you can at this point.
And yes, I don't think it is a good idea to extend relievers to big contracts. You can usually find relievers anywhere. And, yes, if he gets hurt, or melts down in 2026, then you have nothing to show for him. And if you extend him, there's a good chance he sucks for the next few years. Relievers are pretty volatile as it is and JoJo already saw his walk rate shoot back up to where he was when the Phillies traded for him, so he might already be trending down.
Thx ronnie
To me dealing JoJo is a no-brainer.
I'd even package him w/Donovan, which could be the best use of JoJo, if it meant a great return!
This is the best way to move Romero. In any larger trade, if we have moved the other team a little past their puke point and we really like the return, adding Romero could move the needle. (Chalk up a save for Romero)
For sure TB
Donny + JoJo = Best possible return!
As I have correctly advised before, now is the time for Bloom to think big. Add Mathew, or Bernal, or Hence, or Walker, or Mootbaar, or Pallante to the Donovan and Romero to tandem in whatever combinations work to produce not just one, but potentially two blockbuster deals to transform the organization in a blink.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
I think I've been doing the same for a while to mel:
by rockondlouie
If you're shooting for moon as I have when going after B. Woo (Donny + JoJo + Mathews or Hence), then yes!
Jatalk wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 08:59 am
I’m more comfortable trading him than Donovan. Jo Jo impacts the game every two or three days. Relief pitchers are always up and down. His highest value is now.
I don't know how this concept escapes so many people
Heres a wild one- let’s say as a given there are 13 distinct species of human. Prolly more based on hybrids. You would be one of the species. That would leave twelve other groups. Another given- six like you; six don’t, to varying degrees.
Under this idea, you can see easily why you don’t always jive with others. It would then lend itself to this debate as it clearly shows the minor differences in people.
Maybe you call it wild to be sarcastic.
That's a concept I can jive with. There does seem to be different templates of humans, that you tend to notice as you go through life. Certain folks rhyme with others you've already met. Perhaps you are correct there are 13 templates. Never gave it thought.
stlbirdlover wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 08:43 am
He's 29 won't be 30 until Sept. He's only eligible for arbitration this year and he made 2.7 million last season. I don't understand why they want to trade him. He pitched well last year so why not sign him to a 2 or 3 year contract?
They may have information on him we know nothing about.
Then we might as well not speculate on any player because that is always a certainty.
Jatalk wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 08:59 am
I’m more comfortable trading him than Donovan. Jo Jo impacts the game every two or three days. Relief pitchers are always up and down. His highest value is now.
I don't know how this concept escapes so many people
Heres a wild one- let’s say as a given there are 13 distinct species of human. Prolly more based on hybrids. You would be one of the species. That would leave twelve other groups. Another given- six like you; six don’t, to varying degrees.
Under this idea, you can see easily why you don’t always jive with others. It would then lend itself to this debate as it clearly shows the minor differences in people.
Maybe you call it wild to be sarcastic.
That's a concept I can jive with. There does seem to be different templates of humans, that you tend to notice as you go through life. Certain folks rhyme with others you've already met. Perhaps you are correct there are 13 templates. Never gave it thought.
Perhaps some templates are more rare.
Nice response. Thank you. Template is a good word to describe. Layman’s terms says- set in your ways.
Reference the thirteen main species/ families, six will always follow or go with you, six won’t. To varing degrees of follower ship. Some call it human nature. It fits.
It’s like someone you just couldn’t get along with. Even though you tried. A mystery.
stlbirdlover wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 08:43 am
He's 29 won't be 30 until Sept. He's only eligible for arbitration this year and he made 2.7 million last season. I don't understand why they want to trade him. He pitched well last year so why not sign him to a 2 or 3 year contract?
They think they can get pieces to rebuild with for him. The cardinals are rebuilding the fastest way to speed up the process is to trade guys like Donovan and Jo Jo for prospects. If they keep him will they be a little better next season? probably but they still wouldn't win anything and a reliver isn't the type of player the cardinals need to be investing long term in.
Trade a pittance for a scratch off ticket.
CT seems to be enamored with this...super confidence in Bloom.
Thought the team resided in the show me state
100% agree! No explanation can justify either, other than some weird obsession with saving BDW money…even peanuts.
stlbirdlover wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 08:43 am
He's 29 won't be 30 until Sept. He's only eligible for arbitration this year and he made 2.7 million last season. I don't understand why they want to trade him. He pitched well last year so why not sign him to a 2 or 3 year contract?
They think they can get pieces to rebuild with for him. The cardinals are rebuilding the fastest way to speed up the process is to trade guys like Donovan and Jo Jo for prospects. If they keep him will they be a little better next season? probably but they still wouldn't win anything and a reliver isn't the type of player the cardinals need to be investing long term in.
Trade a pittance for a scratch off ticket.
CT seems to be enamored with this...super confidence in Bloom.
Thought the team resided in the show me state
Yea because the cardinals are rebuilding and if youre going to rebuild you rebuild you dont half (donkey) it. You probably were enamored with Mos results once he got into the dont try to win and dont try to rebuild just sustain mediocrity and hope and pray for miracles stage but i was not. I can get behind a strategy and direction as long as there is one Mo didnt Bloom does. You dont like bloom good for you. Bloom could be as bad or worse than Mo i dont know but I will give him a chance
If you’re going to be a responsible GM you don’t half (donkey) it either. Any plan that is built on the premise “we’re not going to compete” is weak, lazy, and incompetent and sends a terrible message to the young players on whom you rest your hopes on a turnaround.
No need to sell the farm or acquire old expensive vets, but to lay down in the fetal position and suck your thumb and succumb to hopelessness…that is just a loser mentality. That will never turn things around.
Jatalk wrote: ↑17 Dec 2025 08:59 am
I’m more comfortable trading him than Donovan. Jo Jo impacts the game every two or three days. Relief pitchers are always up and down. His highest value is now.
I don't know how this concept escapes so many people
Heres a wild one- let’s say as a given there are 13 distinct species of human. Prolly more based on hybrids. You would be one of the species. That would leave twelve other groups. Another given- six like you; six don’t, to varying degrees.
Under this idea, you can see easily why you don’t always jive with others. It would then lend itself to this debate as it clearly shows the minor differences in people.
Maybe you call it wild to be sarcastic.
That's a concept I can jive with. There does seem to be different templates of humans, that you tend to notice as you go through life. Certain folks rhyme with others you've already met. Perhaps you are correct there are 13 templates. Never gave it thought.
Perhaps some templates are more rare.
Nice response. Thank you. Template is a good word to describe. Layman’s terms says- set in your ways.
Reference the thirteen main species/ families, six will always follow or go with you, six won’t. To varing degrees of follower ship. Some call it human nature. It fits.
It’s like someone you just couldn’t get along with. Even though you tried. A mystery.
Yes sarcasm.
There's a tremendous hypothesis within that. I think you're onto something. Yes perhaps among the templates some of the individual on/off switches can have common settings. Would be helpful if this was mapped out somewhere in a visual format. I never knew what to think of the personality type stuff. Maybe it's bull[shirt]. Maybe it's no more complicated than the individual, their ability to grasp their own mind in contrast to their environoment. And the way that environment perceives this individual. Maybe some are wired to be complicit to the environment and whatever they presume to be the perceived consensus, and some are contrarians. So maybe there are only two extremes, instead of 13 variants. The contrarian in their full grasp obtains 100% of everything. Best of both worlds. The intelligence and the creativity. Maybe just the discovered potential of being the contrarian. Is that what pragmatism is.
Back to the subject. Maybe Mozeliak was one of those different templates. The wrong template for a GM, since he held onto Helsley past his point of max trade value.
