Gordo says Contreras and Red Sox

[woofy25]

Selfishly I'd like to see Contreras at 1B with the Cards in 2026, but he is at the risky regression age near where we've seen Arenado and Goldy fall off significantly. I do think the Cards would be better with WC at 1B next season than with Burly there, but can't deny it'd make sense to trade WC if you can get good value for him this offseason.

Goldschmidt won the MVP in his age-34 season.

Key words, risky and near.
That said, how was Arenado in his 34 age season?
That said, I'd be just fine if the Cards take a chance WC performing well at his 34 age season.
I think WC will do well in 2026, but big deal, trying to predict who regresses at what age isn't good risk management.

The Cardinals need to start trading people when their value is high rather than continuing to wait until they age out, get injured, or underperform. WC's value will never be higher than it is now. They need to strike a deal. The intersection of Cardinals compete and Contreras still a high performer are unlikely to meet. Therefore, getting a return and save money that can get spent (presumably) later. There is zero reason to keep WC on the team if there is a respectable return available.

[greyhawk]

Selfishly I'd like to see Contreras at 1B with the Cards in 2026, but he is at the risky regression age near where we've seen Arenado and Goldy fall off significantly. I do think the Cards would be better with WC at 1B next season than with Burly there, but can't deny it'd make sense to trade WC if you can get good value for him this offseason.

Goldschmidt won the MVP in his age-34 season.

Key words, risky and near.
That said, how was Arenado in his 34 age season?
That said, I'd be just fine if the Cards take a chance WC performing well at his 34 age season.
I think WC will do well in 2026, but big deal, trying to predict who regresses at what age isn't good risk management.

The Cardinals need to start trading people when their value is high rather than continuing to wait until they age out, get injured, or underperform. WC's value will never be higher than it is now. They need to strike a deal. The intersection of Cardinals compete and Contreras still a high performer are unlikely to meet. Therefore, getting a return and save money that can get spent (presumably) later. There is zero reason to keep WC on the team if there is a respectable return available.

very well said.

[craviduce]

RHP Marcus Phillips and call it a day. And it gives us all a chance to be reminded just how far Ramfandan lives from Univ. of Tenn.

seriously, though...I was hoping Phillips would last to the 2nd round at 55th (I think that was our pick #), but Boston snagged him in the 30's

We need the RHP help...all the help we can get. Power fastball, great Change...with power comes control questions, but that can be finessed overtime.

[Strummer Jones]

Selfishly I'd like to see Contreras at 1B with the Cards in 2026, but he is at the risky regression age near where we've seen Arenado and Goldy fall off significantly. I do think the Cards would be better with WC at 1B next season than with Burly there, but can't deny it'd make sense to trade WC if you can get good value for him this offseason.

Goldschmidt won the MVP in his age-34 season.

He also declined significantly in each of the following years.

I say this as someone who's been a big Contreras fan ever since he came aboard. If we had a window of contention open, then I would absolutely keep Willie. If he were older and already in his decline phase and more logically platooned or relegated to bench duty, I'd probably keep Willie for the veteran leadership. But he's still productive...but for how long? As it stands, he's still good value for the money.

When you're rebuilding, it's better to let go of someone too early rather than too late.

I also think either Boston or the Mets would be a good place for him to land. He can be that good third wheel between Soto and Lindor. He won't be Alonso good, but he's a miles better defender and offers more consistency to his game than Alonso does. The highs aren't as high, but the lows aren't as low either.

With Boston, I could definitely see him being a productive leader on a Boston team that's fairly young. A good mentor to Narvaez and Anthony, and a horse to go alongside Story. And if they're looking to keep payroll manageable like they say...where are you going to find better value for a first baseman?

[ecleme22]

Selfishly I'd like to see Contreras at 1B with the Cards in 2026, but he is at the risky regression age near where we've seen Arenado and Goldy fall off significantly. I do think the Cards would be better with WC at 1B next season than with Burly there, but can't deny it'd make sense to trade WC if you can get good value for him this offseason.

Goldschmidt won the MVP in his age-34 season.

Key words, risky and near.
That said, how was Arenado in his 34 age season?
That said, I'd be just fine if the Cards take a chance WC performing well at his 34 age season.
I think WC will do well in 2026, but big deal, trying to predict who regresses at what age isn't good risk management.

I think the biggest problem with your logic is that you are implying the Cardinals are motivated to trade WC primarily because of a fear of him regressing.

When in fact, they want to trade him because they are in a rebuild.

[WaltsSuccessor]

Someone with a BTV subscription help me out with this one. If we trade WC to Boston, how much more prospect capital could we extract IF we agreed to take back all the Yoshida contract too? Red Sox have been dying to find someone to take that contract.

Like could we trade WC for Durran, Yoshida, AND a top pitching prospect like Tolle or Early?

Just not sure how the surplus value shakes out. However, I personally love the idea of taking back Yoshida in the deal to greatly sweeten the pot. Don't like the player whatsoever, but it keeps the trade relatively cash neutral for the Cards and should bring back way more future value by doing so.

[rockondlouie]

Selfishly I'd like to see Contreras at 1B with the Cards in 2026, but he is at the risky regression age near where we've seen Arenado and Goldy fall off significantly. I do think the Cards would be better with WC at 1B next season than with Burly there, but can't deny it'd make sense to trade WC if you can get good value for him this offseason.

Goldschmidt won the MVP in his age-34 season.

Random, unpredictable outliers to happen.

And Goldy (.911 career OPS going into his age 34 season) was a vastly superior hitter -vs- WillyC (.811 career OPS going into his age 34 season), no comparison.

[Cardinals4Life]

Selfishly I'd like to see Contreras at 1B with the Cards in 2026, but he is at the risky regression age near where we've seen Arenado and Goldy fall off significantly. I do think the Cards would be better with WC at 1B next season than with Burly there, but can't deny it'd make sense to trade WC if you can get good value for him this offseason.

Goldschmidt won the MVP in his age-34 season.

Random, unpredictable outliers to happen.

Yes, Goldy got lucky.

[craviduce]

Someone with a BTV subscription help me out with this one. If we trade WC to Boston, how much more prospect capital could we extract IF we agreed to take back all the Yoshida contract too? Red Sox have been dying to find someone to take that contract.

Like could we trade WC for Durran, Yoshida, AND a top pitching prospect like Tolle or Early?

Just not sure how the surplus value shakes out. However, I personally love the idea of taking back Yoshida in the deal to greatly sweeten the pot. Don't like the player whatsoever, but it keeps the trade relatively cash neutral for the Cards and should bring back way more future value by doing so.

I don't think we're going to pry Tolle, Early, nor Witherspoon from the Red Sox.

Set your sights on Marcus Phillips.

OR...Couple WC with JoJo or whomever and pick up $7million due each of the next 2 seasons for WC...then maybe they'll budge on Witherspoon...that's real get, imo....4 pitches he already has mastered....Four Seamer, Curve, Slider, Cutter

[Galatians221jb1]

When i read this I thought you meant Phil Gordon of the Post Dispatch. But he passed away. He's breaking trades even in the after life.

Jeff Gordon went by "Gordo". He retired. Still alive

[imetsatchelpaige]

Selfishly I'd like to see Contreras at 1B with the Cards in 2026, but he is at the risky regression age near where we've seen Arenado and Goldy fall off significantly. I do think the Cards would be better with WC at 1B next season than with Burly there, but can't deny it'd make sense to trade WC if you can get good value for him this offseason.

Goldschmidt won the MVP in his age-34 season.

And fell off the edge of the world shortly thereafter.

[renostl]

Selfishly I'd like to see Contreras at 1B with the Cards in 2026, but he is at the risky regression age near where we've seen Arenado and Goldy fall off significantly. I do think the Cards would be better with WC at 1B next season than with Burly there, but can't deny it'd make sense to trade WC if you can get good value for him this offseason.

Goldschmidt won the MVP in his age-34 season.

He also declined significantly in each of the following years.

I say this as someone who's been a big Contreras fan ever since he came aboard. If we had a window of contention open, then I would absolutely keep Willie. If he were older and already in his decline phase and more logically platooned or relegated to bench duty, I'd probably keep Willie for the veteran leadership. But he's still productive...but for how long? As it stands, he's still good value for the money.

When you're rebuilding, it's better to let go of someone too early rather than too late.

I also think either Boston or the Mets would be a good place for him to land. He can be that good third wheel between Soto and Lindor. He won't be Alonso good, but he's a miles better defender and offers more consistency to his game than Alonso does. The highs aren't as high, but the lows aren't as low either.

With Boston, I could definitely see him being a productive leader on a Boston team that's fairly young. A good mentor to Narvaez and Anthony, and a horse to go alongside Story. And if they're looking to keep payroll manageable like they say...where are you going to find better value for a first baseman?

I think WC and NA are the same guy as for as their value
to St. Louis. No dog in the fight to keep either. If gone both open a
spot. In fact WC may open more since 1B could be the best spot for
Herrera or Gorman.

The difference is WC doesn't need half his salary paid to get rid of.
I expect neither to play 162 or even 130. WC averages 118 in his full seasons
non-Covid, non-rookie and Arenado played 107 in a prove it season while trying
to make himself attractive to other teams.

IF either can be moved fine. If not, also fine. Except at least NA
does say he wants to win so it'd be nice for him to get a chance. WC
is more content.

[C-Unit]

Someone with a BTV subscription help me out with this one. If we trade WC to Boston, how much more prospect capital could we extract IF we agreed to take back all the Yoshida contract too? Red Sox have been dying to find someone to take that contract.

Like could we trade WC for Durran, Yoshida, AND a top pitching prospect like Tolle or Early?

Just not sure how the surplus value shakes out. However, I personally love the idea of taking back Yoshida in the deal to greatly sweeten the pot. Don't like the player whatsoever, but it keeps the trade relatively cash neutral for the Cards and should bring back way more future value by doing so.

I don't think we're going to pry Tolle, Early, nor Witherspoon from the Red Sox.

Set your sights on Marcus Phillips.

OR...Couple WC with JoJo or whomever and pick up $7million due each of the next 2 seasons for WC...then maybe they'll budge on Witherspoon...that's real get, imo....4 pitches he already has mastered....Four Seamer, Curve, Slider, Cutter

Interesting pitcher. I certainly see the fastball movement.

He kind of has that short coil delivery, somewhat reminiscent of the way Carlos Martinez would have his arm bounce and pop up against the front of his body in his finish, with a similar standing upright sort of finish with his body. If my description reminds you of what I'm talking about...

[renostl]

Someone with a BTV subscription help me out with this one. If we trade WC to Boston, how much more prospect capital could we extract IF we agreed to take back all the Yoshida contract too? Red Sox have been dying to find someone to take that contract.

Like could we trade WC for Durran, Yoshida, AND a top pitching prospect like Tolle or Early?

Just not sure how the surplus value shakes out. However, I personally love the idea of taking back Yoshida in the deal to greatly sweeten the pot. Don't like the player whatsoever, but it keeps the trade relatively cash neutral for the Cards and should bring back way more future value by doing so.

I don't think we're going to pry Tolle, Early, nor Witherspoon from the Red Sox.

Set your sights on Marcus Phillips.

OR...Couple WC with JoJo or whomever and pick up $7million due each of the next 2 seasons for WC...then maybe they'll budge on Witherspoon...that's real get, imo....4 pitches he already has mastered....Four Seamer, Curve, Slider, Cutter

I liked Witherspoon in the draft, a contender for the Cardinals pick at what 10 picks higher.
I felt there was upside with a high floor.

I think Boston really wants a big signing Tucker-Bregman-Bichette. I'm not sure they get any of
them and neither are they.
Not real sure they like Bregman essentially walking away from $40M. But they'd make up ok.
IF the trade was WC and BD they could throw stupid money at Tucker without restraint.

That opens the door to their prospects.

[craviduce]

Someone with a BTV subscription help me out with this one. If we trade WC to Boston, how much more prospect capital could we extract IF we agreed to take back all the Yoshida contract too? Red Sox have been dying to find someone to take that contract.

Like could we trade WC for Durran, Yoshida, AND a top pitching prospect like Tolle or Early?

Just not sure how the surplus value shakes out. However, I personally love the idea of taking back Yoshida in the deal to greatly sweeten the pot. Don't like the player whatsoever, but it keeps the trade relatively cash neutral for the Cards and should bring back way more future value by doing so.

I don't think we're going to pry Tolle, Early, nor Witherspoon from the Red Sox.

Set your sights on Marcus Phillips.

OR...Couple WC with JoJo or whomever and pick up $7million due each of the next 2 seasons for WC...then maybe they'll budge on Witherspoon...that's real get, imo....4 pitches he already has mastered....Four Seamer, Curve, Slider, Cutter

I liked Witherspoon in the draft, a contender for the Cardinals pick at what 10 picks higher.
I felt there was upside with a high floor.

I think Boston really wants a big signing Tucker-Bregman-Bichette. I'm not sure they get any of
them and neither are they.
Not real sure they like Bregman essentially walking away from $40M. But they'd make up ok.
IF the trade was WC and BD they could throw stupid money at Tucker without restraint.

That opens the door to their prospects.

I had Witherspoon in my Top 5 picks at #5. Always liked him...but the LHP got more love from the Pundits.

I like Phillips also, he's not a shabby Consolation Prize

[peterman'srealitytour]

This is all a non-starter until we hear Contreras will waive his NTC to the respective team. All we know is he said he would consider it depending on the team. We all saw how Arenado nixed the deal to Houston. Believe it when you see it.