STLtoday.com

Posted: **11 Dec 2025 11:59 am**

What we need the out field to look like this year
LF) a healthy Nootbaar with a .360 on base % and 20 + homeruns
CF) Scott II gold glove defense 75 sbs
RF) Walker to show why he was a top 5 prospect. .280 BA 25 plus homers 20 sbs neautral defender.

If those three players could do what they are capable of our outfield would be awesome. I don't want to see more experimens in the outfield with Herrera / Burleson. Donovan could play some for Noot until he's ready.

Posted: **11 Dec 2025 12:11 pm**

This is and has been the biggest problem for over 10 years. 2013 since the Cardinals decided you don't need a good outfield. You can't be counting on three prospects out there every year.

Posted: **11 Dec 2025 13:27 pm**

hornetfb52 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:18 am
rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:14 am
hornetfb52 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:34 am Could be looking at
Church, Scott and Walker. Not ideal.

Now you see why I about puked hornet.

Worst OF in MLB, worst we have ever seen in St. Louis?
Yep I’m with ya. Not sure all 3 together will produce an MLB caliber season offensively. Hopefully they step up a bit.

Two of them (Walker and Church) need at be at Memphis, VSII only here for his defense and SB potential.

Throw in a catcher and that's four almost sure outs 75+% of the time taking 16+ PA's a game.

Posted: **11 Dec 2025 13:31 pm**

The Outfield. Josie’s on a vacation far away.

Posted: **11 Dec 2025 14:03 pm**

OldRed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:40 am
hornetfb52 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:34 am Could be looking at
Church, Scott and Walker. Not ideal.
Not ideal for sure, but that's what it might be.

Would like to see what Church can do with an extended look. I think he would give you more than Noot ever has. He might be a real pleasant surprise.

Posted: **11 Dec 2025 14:04 pm**

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 13:27 pm
hornetfb52 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:18 am
rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:14 am
hornetfb52 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:34 am Could be looking at
Church, Scott and Walker. Not ideal.

Now you see why I about puked hornet.

Worst OF in MLB, worst we have ever seen in St. Louis?
Yep I’m with ya. Not sure all 3 together will produce an MLB caliber season offensively. Hopefully they step up a bit.
Two of them (Walker and Church) need at be at Memphis, VSII only here for his defense and SB potential.

Throw in a catcher and that's four almost sure outs 75+% of the time taking 16+ PA's a game.

I think we will be happy enough with Church if we don't try to make him something he is not. He is a 4th OF who can play all 3 spots serviceably. He has good speed, a great arm, and hopefully he doesn't bury you with the bat. Is that ok?

Scott showed a lot of improvement year over year, but undoubtedly has to improve more with the bat to be a lock. If he could hit .260-.270 with his speed on the bases and defense in CF, is that ok? Is that reasonable? If he had landed one more hit each week last season he would have hit .280. If he hits .280, he will be a force. The change will be more mental with his approach than physical. He needs a different concept of who he is as a hitter.

I'm exhausted talking about what Walker could be. I hope he is better.

Going forward, if they could convert a player to OF, promote and OF, trade for an OF, and sign an OF things would look much better.

Converting- Yes, I'm still thinking about Ivan Herrera in LF. I'm also wondering about Rainiel Rodriguez.
Promoting- Sometime soon we will be ready to look at Joshua Baez.
Trading- There are no shortage of trade proposals on the forum. Names I have been mentioning are Mike Sirota and Carson Benge. This is not out of reach.
Signing- Probably a season, or two away, but obviously they are developing the payroll space that would allow them to do that if it is still a need.

Don't give up hope- just don't get in a hurry.

Posted: **11 Dec 2025 14:15 pm**

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 14:04 pm
rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 13:27 pm
hornetfb52 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:18 am
rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:14 am
hornetfb52 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:34 am Could be looking at
Church, Scott and Walker. Not ideal.

Now you see why I about puked hornet.

Worst OF in MLB, worst we have ever seen in St. Louis?
Yep I’m with ya. Not sure all 3 together will produce an MLB caliber season offensively. Hopefully they step up a bit.
Two of them (Walker and Church) need at be at Memphis, VSII only here for his defense and SB potential.

Throw in a catcher and that's four almost sure outs 75+% of the time taking 16+ PA's a game.
I think we will be happy enough with Church if we don't try to make him something he is not. He is a 4th OF who can play all 3 spots serviceably. He has good speed, a great arm, and hopefully he doesn't bury you with the bat. Is that ok?

Scott showed a lot of improvement year over year, but undoubtedly has to improve more with the bat to be a lock. If he could hit .260-.270 with his speed on the bases and defense in CF, is that ok? Is that reasonable? If he had landed one more hit each week last season he would have hit .280. If he hits .280, he will be a force. The change will be more mental with his approach than physical. He needs a different concept of who he is as a hitter.

I'm exhausted talking about what Walker could be. I hope he is better.

Going forward, if they could convert a player to OF, promote and OF, trade for an OF, and sign an OF things would look much better.

Converting- Yes, I'm still thinking about Ivan Herrera in LF. I'm also wondering about Rainiel Rodriguez.
Promoting- Sometime soon we will be ready to look at Joshua Baez.
Trading- There are no shortage of trade proposals on the forum. Names I have been mentioning are Mike Sirota and Carson Benge. This is not out of reach.
Signing- Probably a season, or two away, but obviously they are developing the payroll space that would allow them to do that if it is still a need.

Don't give up hope- just don't get in a hurry.

I'm a fan of VSII.

If he could just get his OB% above .330+ by hitting down on the ball more (ala O. Smith when Whitey got him to do so) and utilizing his speed + throwing in more bunts, then he'd steal 50 bases and be a solid piece.

J. Walker belongs at Memphis but given the lack of OF depth in the organization he could be here especially if Noot isn't ready, Donny is traded as is WillyC which moves Burleson to 1st base.

I first pushed the idea of moving I. Hererra to LF in CT last year before STing but it sounds as if they're going to let him catch (yikes!) and DH.

The OF is wide open for one of the kids to grab a spot this spring, let's hope one does.

I'm also hoping Bloom is on the lookout for an OF piece hoping BDWJr gives him some money to play with and he finds a gem either via FA or in a trade.

Church is what you suggest, a fourth OF'er who (likely) brings little-nothing offensively.

JMO

Posted: **11 Dec 2025 14:22 pm**

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 14:04 pm
rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 13:27 pm
hornetfb52 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:18 am
rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:14 am
hornetfb52 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:34 am Could be looking at
Church, Scott and Walker. Not ideal.

Now you see why I about puked hornet.

Worst OF in MLB, worst we have ever seen in St. Louis?
Yep I’m with ya. Not sure all 3 together will produce an MLB caliber season offensively. Hopefully they step up a bit.
Two of them (Walker and Church) need at be at Memphis, VSII only here for his defense and SB potential.

Throw in a catcher and that's four almost sure outs 75+% of the time taking 16+ PA's a game.
I think we will be happy enough with Church if we don't try to make him something he is not. He is a 4th OF who can play all 3 spots serviceably. He has good speed, a great arm, and hopefully he doesn't bury you with the bat. Is that ok?

Scott showed a lot of improvement year over year, but undoubtedly has to improve more with the bat to be a lock. If he could hit .260-.270 with his speed on the bases and defense in CF, is that ok? Is that reasonable? If he had landed one more hit each week last season he would have hit .280. If he hits .280, he will be a force. The change will be more mental with his approach than physical. He needs a different concept of who he is as a hitter.

I'm exhausted talking about what Walker could be. I hope he is better.

Going forward, if they could convert a player to OF, promote and OF, trade for an OF, and sign an OF things would look much better.

Converting- Yes, I'm still thinking about Ivan Herrera in LF. I'm also wondering about Rainiel Rodriguez.
Promoting- Sometime soon we will be ready to look at Joshua Baez.
Trading- There are no shortage of trade proposals on the forum. Names I have been mentioning are Mike Sirota and Carson Benge. This is not out of reach.
Signing- Probably a season, or two away, but obviously they are developing the payroll space that would allow them to do that if it is still a need.

Don't give up hope- just don't get in a hurry.

Good post, TB.

If Scott can use the opposite field and especially pound groundballs into the hole between SS/3B, he could easily improve his average and OBP. They are also going to have to turn him loose on the bases. He should be running nearly every chance he gets. THAT HASN'T HAPPENED. (And that HAS to fall squarely on Marmol!)

I agree on Church. Probably a very solid 4th OFer, but perhaps he will surprise us given a longer run. I think he is a much better offensive player than Scott, TBH.

Walker? I'm just not seeing it. Maybe he will finally prove us wrong. I sure hope so.

Posted: **11 Dec 2025 16:39 pm**

Jatalk wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:28 am All the trade talk I’m reading seems to be centrally focused on getting pitching in return. When do we address the outfield? Our current roster includes good defensive outfielders that can’t hit or mediocre defensive players that also can’t hit or can hit but mediocre on defense. This is especially true if Donovan is traded.

I’m not as astute as many on CT so can someone discuss reasonable outfielders we might obtain and are MLB ready in the near term?

Honestly I see this as the most critical need. If I’m wrong excuse my ignorance.

Agree, defense is always important. Happy holidays, OldRed.

Posted: **11 Dec 2025 16:42 pm**

Speaking of Outfielders , our division rivals Milwaukee Brewers signed a CF for depth today .

https://www.mlb.com/news/akil-baddoo-deal-with-brewers

1 yr deal for Baddoo

Been talk that Brewers could part with Blake Perkins ( multiple injuries ) and other backups in OF.

Posted: **11 Dec 2025 16:43 pm**

Cranny wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 16:39 pm
Jatalk wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:28 am All the trade talk I’m reading seems to be centrally focused on getting pitching in return. When do we address the outfield? Our current roster includes good defensive outfielders that can’t hit or mediocre defensive players that also can’t hit or can hit but mediocre on defense. This is especially true if Donovan is traded.

I’m not as astute as many on CT so can someone discuss reasonable outfielders we might obtain and are MLB ready in the near term?

Honestly I see this as the most critical need. If I’m wrong excuse my ignorance.
Agree, defense is always important. Happy holidays, OldRed.

Same to you Cranny.

Posted: **11 Dec 2025 16:52 pm**

Jatalk wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:28 am All the trade talk I’m reading seems to be centrally focused on getting pitching in return. When do we address the outfield? Our current roster includes good defensive outfielders that can’t hit or mediocre defensive players that also can’t hit or can hit but mediocre on defense. This is especially true if Donovan is traded.

I’m not as astute as many on CT so can someone discuss reasonable outfielders we might obtain and are MLB ready in the near term?

Honestly I see this as the most critical need. If I’m wrong excuse my ignorance.

I’ve been saying this for years.

We have no good outfielders in our system. When do we get to the actual building part of the rebuild?

The OF is going to require intentional moves. Not just waiting and paitience.

Posted: **11 Dec 2025 16:56 pm**

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 16:52 pm
Jatalk wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:28 am All the trade talk I’m reading seems to be centrally focused on getting pitching in return. When do we address the outfield? Our current roster includes good defensive outfielders that can’t hit or mediocre defensive players that also can’t hit or can hit but mediocre on defense. This is especially true if Donovan is traded.

I’m not as astute as many on CT so can someone discuss reasonable outfielders we might obtain and are MLB ready in the near term?

Honestly I see this as the most critical need. If I’m wrong excuse my ignorance.
I’ve been saying this for years.

We have no good outfielders in our system. When do we get to the actual building part of the rebuild?

The OF is going to require intentional moves. Not just waiting and paitience.

Mitchell and Baez may surprise everyone and make it.

Posted: **11 Dec 2025 16:59 pm**

Steamer600 projections for Cardinal outfielders

WAR Off Def Name
3.1 11.6 -0.9 Brendan Donovan --- optimistic on both offense and defense
2.4 13.3 -9.3 Alec Burleson --- optimistic on both offense and defense
2.3 10.3 -7.9 Lars Nootbaar --- optimistic on offense
1.9 0.5 -1.5 Bryan Torres
1.7 -3.6 -0.2 Nathan Church --- very pessimistic on defense
1.6 -11.0 6.5 Victor Scott II --- pessimistic on defense
1.5 -7.5 2.5 Noah Mendlinger
1.2 -10.2 2.4 Zach Levenson
1.0 -3.0 -7.2 Joshua Baez
1.0 -1.2 -9.2 Jordan Walker --- very optimistic on both offense and defense (needs a 3 WAR improvement to get to 1.0 WAR)
0.4 -18.2 2.4 Chase Davis
0.3 -19.2 2.4 Miguel Ugueto
0.1 -14.9 -4.1 Matt Koperniak
-0.3 -25.7 2.4 Travis Honeyman
-0.4 -16.5 -7.4 Mike Antico

Not good considering they plan to trade Donovan... and maybe Nootbar... and IMHO should trade high on Burleson.

I wonder if Torres will get any chance anywhere given his tiny stature. Should get a shot at the Hampson job, IMHO.
I wonder if Church will get a chance given his arm and OBP.

They should definitely be looking at OF prospects in trade returns. They are starting to get overloaded on #4/#5 starters.

Posted: **11 Dec 2025 16:59 pm**

Bomber1 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:02 am
Jatalk wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 09:28 am All the trade talk I’m reading seems to be centrally focused on getting pitching in return. When do we address the outfield? Our current roster includes good defensive outfielders that can’t hit or mediocre defensive players that also can’t hit or can hit but mediocre on defense. This is especially true if Donovan is traded.

I’m not as astute as many on CT so can someone discuss reasonable outfielders we might obtain and are MLB ready in the near term?

Honestly I see this as the most critical need. If I’m wrong excuse my ignorance.
Put Herrera in left field.

I’ll piggyback my comment off of yours.
Yes......the OF is a concern. I am hopeful for Scott in CF for 2026 because of his defense and speed. Can he just pull a Willie Mays Hayes and hit the ball on the ground??
The Corners?? Who knows????
We know they’ll keep looking at Walker.
Then you have.....Noot(injury), Donovan, Burleson, and Herrera(like you said!).
All of them could be decent contributors if they are not dealt.
And I’m also quietly optimistic on Josh Baez who seemed to break out a bit last year at AA.
Stay tuned!

Posted: **11 Dec 2025 17:04 pm**

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 14:04 pm
rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 13:27 pm
hornetfb52 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:18 am
rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:14 am
hornetfb52 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:34 am Could be looking at
Church, Scott and Walker. Not ideal.

Now you see why I about puked hornet.

Worst OF in MLB, worst we have ever seen in St. Louis?
Yep I’m with ya. Not sure all 3 together will produce an MLB caliber season offensively. Hopefully they step up a bit.
Two of them (Walker and Church) need at be at Memphis, VSII only here for his defense and SB potential.

Throw in a catcher and that's four almost sure outs 75+% of the time taking 16+ PA's a game.
I think we will be happy enough with Church if we don't try to make him something he is not. He is a 4th OF who can play all 3 spots serviceably. He has good speed, a great arm, and hopefully he doesn't bury you with the bat. Is that ok?

Scott showed a lot of improvement year over year, but undoubtedly has to improve more with the bat to be a lock. If he could hit .260-.270 with his speed on the bases and defense in CF, is that ok? Is that reasonable? If he had landed one more hit each week last season he would have hit .280. If he hits .280, he will be a force. The change will be more mental with his approach than physical. He needs a different concept of who he is as a hitter.

I'm exhausted talking about what Walker could be. I hope he is better.

Going forward, if they could convert a player to OF, promote and OF, trade for an OF, and sign an OF things would look much better.

Converting- Yes, I'm still thinking about Ivan Herrera in LF. I'm also wondering about Rainiel Rodriguez.
Promoting- Sometime soon we will be ready to look at Joshua Baez.
Trading- There are no shortage of trade proposals on the forum. Names I have been mentioning are Mike Sirota and Carson Benge. This is not out of reach.
Signing- Probably a season, or two away, but obviously they are developing the payroll space that would allow them to do that if it is still a need.

Don't give up hope- just don't get in a hurry.

How did we get this BIG a gap in our OF production and the next next generation of serious prospects?

This is the challenge of trying to build from within- we have JJW ready this year, and Winn, Libby, and McGreevey already on the pre-arb/arb clocks and steaming towards free agency. And we have Zero good OFers that will be ready during some of those other players windows.

Now if we want to trade for a truly MLB ready OF like Jones, or someone a year older than Sorota, then maybe things start to line up. But as is we could be losing past prospects almost as quickly as we gain new ones, unless Bloom starts playing the extension game. Especially if the new CBA shortens the pre-FA period down to 4 years as it is in NFL and MLB.

At any rate, Bloom has work to do with the OF, and hopefully gets moving on it soon.

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