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rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:11 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:49 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:45 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:38 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:32 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:24 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:20 am This team is sorely lacking in power, they have two Gold Glove caliber fielders who aren't good offensive players already in M. Winn & VSII.

What they need is a powerhitter or two (good luck finding one when BDWJr isn't spending any real money for a few years), not more glove only players.

Arenado on the infield makes for a better team in the field. What would you say if he rebounded and hit 250 ish, living on singles and shots down the line and in the gaps.

It’s just as likely he has a better year. And young staff needs all it can get from its defense. Whole point of pitching.

I've posted the same a couple times BDog, perhaps being healthy now he bounces back to a .725-.750 OPS while still playing above average defense.

But what this team really needs is a powerhitter.

Or two.

But since that power hitter isn’t at third both in house or by way of trade, then we must settle for defense next. And as mentioned, not many better. Still.

Or two for sure.

Bloom has really got his work cut out for him finding one, let alone two and they need to play either in the OF or corner infield!

If only you believe like I believe, baby (If only you believe like I believe)
We'd get by
If only you believe in miracles, baby (If only you believe in miracles)
So would I
If only you believe like I believe, baby (If only you believe like I believe)
We'd get by
If only you believe in miracles, baby (If only you believe in miracles)
So would I

What the state of the team shows is how far we have fallen. It’s one thing to fall into a hole with an easier recovery. It’s another to get neck deep. We are neck deep.

Mo left C. Bloom a total mess, from the lowest minor league team to the Cardinals.

How bad is it? Don’t call your surgeon even he says it’s late.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:02 am I knew a guy who had a theory on baseball. You need 2 of 3 things to win. Defense, offense and pitching. Of course that assumes a good manager.

If you focus on defense do we have the pitching or offense to win?

Whitney ball was strong pitching, great defense, speed, manufacture runs.

Would you say that- good pitching leads to stellar defense; or, stellar defense leads to good pitching.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 13:12 pm Would you say that- good pitching leads to stellar defense; or, stellar defense leads to good pitching.

Well it's both, however I think in most cases, defense leads to a more confident pitcher.

Pura Vida wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 13:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:02 am I knew a guy who had a theory on baseball. You need 2 of 3 things to win. Defense, offense and pitching. Of course that assumes a good manager.

If you focus on defense do we have the pitching or offense to win?

Whitney ball was strong pitching, great defense, speed, manufacture runs.

Unfortunately the pitching has sucked the speed guys can’t get on base the the defense will suck if Gorman is the third baseman and walker in right and with oli in charge the team is awful fundamentally and don’t manufacture runs

Absolutely not. Any moves made specifically for 2026 without taking the future into account is shortsighted and just not the correct strategy. People are going to have to come to grips with the fact that 2026 is likely the real runway season.

Good defense won't hide a garbage staff. As my college position player coach once told my ticked off college pitching coach in the middle of a game, "You can't defend pissrods." Defense is important, yes, but they just can't continue having 4 8/9 hitters. Give me a top 5-10 offense with average defense any day over a top 5-10 defense and average offense.

Pura Vida wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 13:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:02 am I knew a guy who had a theory on baseball. You need 2 of 3 things to win. Defense, offense and pitching. Of course that assumes a good manager.

If you focus on defense do we have the pitching or offense to win?

Whitney ball was strong pitching, great defense, speed, manufacture runs.

Correct - and contact hitters were part of that. 3-2 count he sent the runner because he had contact hitters and speed. Perfect example of baseball being a symphony and that's why I don't place a lot of value if some the analytics things like war.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 14:52 pm

Pura Vida wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 13:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:02 am I knew a guy who had a theory on baseball. You need 2 of 3 things to win. Defense, offense and pitching. Of course that assumes a good manager.

If you focus on defense do we have the pitching or offense to win?

Whitney ball was strong pitching, great defense, speed, manufacture runs.

Correct - and contact hitters were part of that. 3-2 count he sent the runner because he had contact hitters and speed. Perfect example of baseball being a symphony and that's why I don't place a lot of value if some the analytics things like war.

...and they are about to trade just about the best contact hitter on the team in Donovan. Let's hope JJ pans out and hits for both avg and some power.

bccardsfan wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 14:59 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 14:52 pm

Pura Vida wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 13:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:02 am I knew a guy who had a theory on baseball. You need 2 of 3 things to win. Defense, offense and pitching. Of course that assumes a good manager.

If you focus on defense do we have the pitching or offense to win?

Whitney ball was strong pitching, great defense, speed, manufacture runs.

Correct - and contact hitters were part of that. 3-2 count he sent the runner because he had contact hitters and speed. Perfect example of baseball being a symphony and that's why I don't place a lot of value if some the analytics things like war.

...and they are about to trade just about the best contact hitter on the team in Donovan. Let's hope JJ pans out and hits for both avg and some power.

I don't agree with that trade. Seems to me you keep him and build around him but apparently this is a complete dump. I'd re-sign Donovan but Bloom wants new toys to play with.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 15:07 pm

bccardsfan wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 14:59 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 14:52 pm

Pura Vida wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 13:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:02 am I knew a guy who had a theory on baseball. You need 2 of 3 things to win. Defense, offense and pitching. Of course that assumes a good manager.

If you focus on defense do we have the pitching or offense to win?

Whitney ball was strong pitching, great defense, speed, manufacture runs.

Correct - and contact hitters were part of that. 3-2 count he sent the runner because he had contact hitters and speed. Perfect example of baseball being a symphony and that's why I don't place a lot of value if some the analytics things like war.

...and they are about to trade just about the best contact hitter on the team in Donovan. Let's hope JJ pans out and hits for both avg and some power.

I don't agree with that trade. Seems to me you keep him and build around him but apparently this is a complete dump. I'd re-sign Donovan but Bloom wants new toys to play with.

Well, he is about my favourite player on the team, but I see both sides of it. He will cost $15M + per year and they will not be ready to compete until 2028 if there is indeed a strike or lock out for 2027. Obviously ownership can afford Donovan if they want to sign him, but he also apparently has good trade value. This has been discussed ad nauseum on here. I am good with either as long as Bloom can get the return he wants for Donnie.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 15:07 pm

bccardsfan wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 14:59 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 14:52 pm

Pura Vida wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 13:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:02 am I knew a guy who had a theory on baseball. You need 2 of 3 things to win. Defense, offense and pitching. Of course that assumes a good manager.

If you focus on defense do we have the pitching or offense to win?

Whitney ball was strong pitching, great defense, speed, manufacture runs.

Correct - and contact hitters were part of that. 3-2 count he sent the runner because he had contact hitters and speed. Perfect example of baseball being a symphony and that's why I don't place a lot of value if some the analytics things like war.

...and they are about to trade just about the best contact hitter on the team in Donovan. Let's hope JJ pans out and hits for both avg and some power.

I don't agree with that trade. Seems to me you keep him and build around him but apparently this is a complete dump. I'd re-sign Donovan but Bloom wants new toys to play with.

You should be smart enough to know he’s not going to trade Donovan just because he wants new toys to play with at least I hope so. He’s actually trading him because it’s the smart thing to do. And Donovan is not a player you build a team around if they keep him it prolongs the rebuild and keeps the cardinals in sustained mediocrity I’m tired of seeing that

bccardsfan wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 15:14 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 15:07 pm

bccardsfan wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 14:59 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 14:52 pm

Pura Vida wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 13:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:02 am I knew a guy who had a theory on baseball. You need 2 of 3 things to win. Defense, offense and pitching. Of course that assumes a good manager.

If you focus on defense do we have the pitching or offense to win?

Whitney ball was strong pitching, great defense, speed, manufacture runs.

Correct - and contact hitters were part of that. 3-2 count he sent the runner because he had contact hitters and speed. Perfect example of baseball being a symphony and that's why I don't place a lot of value if some the analytics things like war.

...and they are about to trade just about the best contact hitter on the team in Donovan. Let's hope JJ pans out and hits for both avg and some power.

I don't agree with that trade. Seems to me you keep him and build around him but apparently this is a complete dump. I'd re-sign Donovan but Bloom wants new toys to play with.

Well, he is about my favourite player on the team, but I see both sides of it. He will cost $15M + per year and they will not be ready to compete until 2028 if there is indeed a strike or lock out for 2027. Obviously ownership can afford Donovan if they want to sign him, but he also apparently has good trade value. This has been discussed ad nauseum on here. I am good with either as long as Bloom can get the return he wants for Donnie.

Donovan is top 5 offensively at 2B and a former gold glove. I figure at best we get a player who eventually might be as good as Donovan. I'm not sure how that translates into being any more ready to compete in 3 years than we are if we re-sign Donovan. Perhaps Bloom has a rabbit up his sleeve.

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 15:31 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 15:07 pm

bccardsfan wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 14:59 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 14:52 pm

Pura Vida wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 13:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:02 am I knew a guy who had a theory on baseball. You need 2 of 3 things to win. Defense, offense and pitching. Of course that assumes a good manager.

If you focus on defense do we have the pitching or offense to win?

Whitney ball was strong pitching, great defense, speed, manufacture runs.

Correct - and contact hitters were part of that. 3-2 count he sent the runner because he had contact hitters and speed. Perfect example of baseball being a symphony and that's why I don't place a lot of value if some the analytics things like war.

...and they are about to trade just about the best contact hitter on the team in Donovan. Let's hope JJ pans out and hits for both avg and some power.

I don't agree with that trade. Seems to me you keep him and build around him but apparently this is a complete dump. I'd re-sign Donovan but Bloom wants new toys to play with.

You should be smart enough to know he’s not going to trade Donovan just because he wants new toys to play with at least I hope so. He’s actually trading him because it’s the smart thing to do. And Donovan is not a player you build a team around if they keep him it prolongs the rebuild and keeps the cardinals in sustained mediocrity I’m tired of seeing that

That depends entirely on what we get for Donovan. He had better get more for Donovan and Arenado than he got for Betts and Price.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 15:46 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 15:31 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 15:07 pm

bccardsfan wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 14:59 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 14:52 pm

Pura Vida wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 13:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:02 am I knew a guy who had a theory on baseball. You need 2 of 3 things to win. Defense, offense and pitching. Of course that assumes a good manager.

If you focus on defense do we have the pitching or offense to win?

Whitney ball was strong pitching, great defense, speed, manufacture runs.

Correct - and contact hitters were part of that. 3-2 count he sent the runner because he had contact hitters and speed. Perfect example of baseball being a symphony and that's why I don't place a lot of value if some the analytics things like war.

...and they are about to trade just about the best contact hitter on the team in Donovan. Let's hope JJ pans out and hits for both avg and some power.

I don't agree with that trade. Seems to me you keep him and build around him but apparently this is a complete dump. I'd re-sign Donovan but Bloom wants new toys to play with.

You should be smart enough to know he’s not going to trade Donovan just because he wants new toys to play with at least I hope so. He’s actually trading him because it’s the smart thing to do. And Donovan is not a player you build a team around if they keep him it prolongs the rebuild and keeps the cardinals in sustained mediocrity I’m tired of seeing that

That depends entirely on what we get for Donovan. He had better get more for Donovan and Arenado than he got for Betts and Price.

You're a moron

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 15:46 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 15:31 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 15:07 pm

bccardsfan wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 14:59 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 14:52 pm

Pura Vida wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 13:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:02 am I knew a guy who had a theory on baseball. You need 2 of 3 things to win. Defense, offense and pitching. Of course that assumes a good manager.

If you focus on defense do we have the pitching or offense to win?

Whitney ball was strong pitching, great defense, speed, manufacture runs.

Correct - and contact hitters were part of that. 3-2 count he sent the runner because he had contact hitters and speed. Perfect example of baseball being a symphony and that's why I don't place a lot of value if some the analytics things like war.

...and they are about to trade just about the best contact hitter on the team in Donovan. Let's hope JJ pans out and hits for both avg and some power.

I don't agree with that trade. Seems to me you keep him and build around him but apparently this is a complete dump. I'd re-sign Donovan but Bloom wants new toys to play with.

You should be smart enough to know he’s not going to trade Donovan just because he wants new toys to play with at least I hope so. He’s actually trading him because it’s the smart thing to do. And Donovan is not a player you build a team around if they keep him it prolongs the rebuild and keeps the cardinals in sustained mediocrity I’m tired of seeing that

That depends entirely on what we get for Donovan. He had better get more for Donovan and Arenado than he got for Betts and Price.

He’s not trading arenado and Donovan together like he was forced by ownership to do in Boston with betts and price so yes the return will be better. I don’t know why people are dumb enough to keep hammering him for the betts and price trade it’s well known Boston ownership was mad at betts for turning down the contract extension and ordered bloom to trade him and they said whoever gets him has to take on prices contract also but some people ignore facts and reality so they can cling to their opinions no matter how stupid and wrong they are. Cardinals ownership isn’t going to force bloom to add arenado in with Donovan so his value isn’t going to be killed

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 11:11 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:49 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:45 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:38 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:32 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:24 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:20 am This team is sorely lacking in power, they have two Gold Glove caliber fielders who aren't good offensive players already in M. Winn & VSII.

What they need is a powerhitter or two (good luck finding one when BDWJr isn't spending any real money for a few years), not more glove only players.

Arenado on the infield makes for a better team in the field. What would you say if he rebounded and hit 250 ish, living on singles and shots down the line and in the gaps.

It’s just as likely he has a better year. And young staff needs all it can get from its defense. Whole point of pitching.

I've posted the same a couple times BDog, perhaps being healthy now he bounces back to a .725-.750 OPS while still playing above average defense.

But what this team really needs is a powerhitter.

Or two.

But since that power hitter isn’t at third both in house or by way of trade, then we must settle for defense next. And as mentioned, not many better. Still.

Or two for sure.

Bloom has really got his work cut out for him finding one, let alone two and they need to play either in the OF or corner infield!

If only you believe like I believe, baby (If only you believe like I believe)
We'd get by
If only you believe in miracles, baby (If only you believe in miracles)
So would I
If only you believe like I believe, baby (If only you believe like I believe)
We'd get by
If only you believe in miracles, baby (If only you believe in miracles)
So would I

What the state of the team shows is how far we have fallen. It’s one thing to fall into a hole with an easier recovery. It’s another to get neck deep. We are neck deep.

Mo left C. Bloom a total mess, from the lowest minor league team to the Cardinals.

If that's the case, why was the Cardinals minor league system recently rated so high?