Maybe we need to follow Bruins lead and fire Monty

[crookedfeeder]

I don’t see that happening. It’s almost always the coach that pays the price, but this time, it needs to be the players. I think it’s time to move on from about 50% of the existing roster.

I agree with Frank. There is a core here that are coach killers. Armstrong should do Steen a favor and clean out that cancer in the locker room before he turns things over.
I am so sick of watching Robert Thomas miss one scoring chance after another then skate off doing the eye rolling into the sky.

drink a beverage each time you see Thomas or Montgomery do it.

[crookedfeeder]

They have the talent to have a far better record.

Do they really though? The Blues are not a particularly talented team by NHL standards.

The one thing they are lacking is the superstar. It's not a prerequisite for a winning, competitive team. When you look at the lines it's still a deep team. I'm not saying this is a SC roster, but certainly one that should make the playoffs. They aren't playing like it. Scoring just isn't skill related. It's getting to the front of the net.

Kind of hard to get a superstar when you are middle of the road competitive year after year. You want a superstar, you need to blow it up and hold on for 3-5 years.

Eichel.

Marner.

[TruBlueFan_1970]

I thought they’d be in the WC hunt, but this is nothing I saw coming. And no, Army can’t have the fired coach egg on his face again, nor will ownership tolerate it. As others have said, can’t put my finger on it, other than they don’t seem to have a cohesive system.

- Don’t have a fast team, outside a few guys, so they don’t play a fast transition system. Do have some good puck movers on D, so I think this is what they are trying to use
- Don’t have a big/gritty team, so dump and chase fails
- Don’t have guys (outside 2-3) who consistently win board battles, so they fail at being a cycling team (strength in 2019)
- Don’t have guys wanting or bought in to playing a Bannister type defensive system. Seems they’ve tried it a couple times this season and failed miserably. Also, don’t have the defensive core to play this system.

Bottom line, as others have said, they lack top talent at any position, which is okay if you have a team built for a specific system. They don’t have the right mix for any system they seem to be trying. Add to that the awful goaltending this season, and what seems to be poor coaching, and they look destined for a top Top 5-10 pick

[callitwhatyouwant]

If you think this is a Monty problem, you are insane. The definition of insanity mantra of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. You are delusional if you think a Stanley cup winning coach who had the locker room until the young guys got their contracts, an AHL feeder system coach who coached the young guys to get to the big leagues both get fired... and firing Monty who everyone liked before in his 1 stint during the the last core, would be the answer.

Last year i strayed away because it looked like Kyrou and Thomas were both trending in the right direction. But 1 one has got to go. None of the players had problems when Thomas signed his contract. The minute Kyrou signed his contract, this team has been up and down non stop. Correlation doesn't mean causation but all signs points towards that one moment being the franchise defining move. Kyrou has got to be one of the most polarizing figures in St. Louis hockey history.

[MiamiLaw]

They have the talent to have a far better record.

Do they really though? The Blues are not a particularly talented team by NHL standards.

The one thing they are lacking is the superstar. It's not a prerequisite for a winning, competitive team. When you look at the lines it's still a deep team. I'm not saying this is a SC roster, but certainly one that should make the playoffs. They aren't playing like it. Scoring just isn't skill related. It's getting to the front of the net.

Kind of hard to get a superstar when you are middle of the road competitive year after year. You want a superstar, you need to blow it up and hold on for 3-5 years.

Eichel.

Marner.

Matt Tkachuk

[dhsux]

If you think this is a Monty problem, you are insane. The definition of insanity mantra of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. You are delusional if you think a Stanley cup winning coach who had the locker room until the young guys got their contracts, an AHL feeder system coach who coached the young guys to get to the big leagues both get fired... and firing Monty who everyone liked before in his 1 stint during the the last core, would be the answer.

Last year i strayed away because it looked like Kyrou and Thomas were both trending in the right direction. But 1 one has got to go. None of the players had problems when Thomas signed his contract. The minute Kyrou signed his contract, this team has been up and down non stop. Correlation doesn't mean causation but all signs points towards that one moment being the franchise defining move. Kyrou has got to be one of the most polarizing figures in St. Louis hockey history.

Thomas signed in July and Kyrou in September of same year, right?

Lower the hyper-boil please!

[dhsux]

I thought they’d be in the WC hunt, but this is nothing I saw coming. And no, Army can’t have the fired coach egg on his face again, nor will ownership tolerate it. As others have said, can’t put my finger on it, other than they don’t seem to have a cohesive system.

- Don’t have a fast team, outside a few guys, so they don’t play a fast transition system. Do have some good puck movers on D, so I think this is what they are trying to use
- Don’t have a big/gritty team, so dump and chase fails
- Don’t have guys (outside 2-3) who consistently win board battles, so they fail at being a cycling team (strength in 2019)
- Don’t have guys wanting or bought in to playing a Bannister type defensive system. Seems they’ve tried it a couple times this season and failed miserably. Also, don’t have the defensive core to play this system.

Bottom line, as others have said, they lack top talent at any position, which is okay if you have a team built for a specific system. They don’t have the right mix for any system they seem to be trying. Add to that the awful goaltending this season, and what seems to be poor coaching, and they look destined for a top Top 5-10 pick

Good post TB...you certainly nailed a lot of what I'm seeing so far.

[crookedfeeder]

They have the talent to have a far better record.

Do they really though? The Blues are not a particularly talented team by NHL standards.

The one thing they are lacking is the superstar. It's not a prerequisite for a winning, competitive team. When you look at the lines it's still a deep team. I'm not saying this is a SC roster, but certainly one that should make the playoffs. They aren't playing like it. Scoring just isn't skill related. It's getting to the front of the net.

Kind of hard to get a superstar when you are middle of the road competitive year after year. You want a superstar, you need to blow it up and hold on for 3-5 years.

Eichel.

Marner.

Matt Tkachuk

Rantanen.

[Pierre McGuire]

They have the talent to have a far better record.

Do they really though? The Blues are not a particularly talented team by NHL standards.

The one thing they are lacking is the superstar. It's not a prerequisite for a winning, competitive team. When you look at the lines it's still a deep team. I'm not saying this is a SC roster, but certainly one that should make the playoffs. They aren't playing like it. Scoring just isn't skill related. It's getting to the front of the net.

Kind of hard to get a superstar when you are middle of the road competitive year after year. You want a superstar, you need to blow it up and hold on for 3-5 years.

Eichel.

Marner.

Matt Tkachuk

Rantanen.

Tkachuk is the one we missed out on but we weren’t getting Eichel, Marner or Rantanen for numerous reasons. We are at the point where we have to draft one or trade a good piece to acquire someone that “might” have superstar potential…better yet that team has to be desperate enough to give up that piece.

[hotrivets]

I'm okay with moving any of the players at this point but finding a team that can use them AND has a piece that you can use is really hard to do which is why we don't see that many hockey trades. Doing that with 4 or 5 guys is almost impossible.

Even if you get the top 5 draft pick no guarantee they translate the performance to the NHL and if they do what happens when they get injured. That is a piece of the solution but you can't put all your hopes on that.

[LGB73]

I thought they’d be in the WC hunt, but this is nothing I saw coming. And no, Army can’t have the fired coach egg on his face again, nor will ownership tolerate it. As others have said, can’t put my finger on it, other than they don’t seem to have a cohesive system.

- Don’t have a fast team, outside a few guys, so they don’t play a fast transition system. Do have some good puck movers on D, so I think this is what they are trying to use
- Don’t have a big/gritty team, so dump and chase fails
- Don’t have guys (outside 2-3) who consistently win board battles, so they fail at being a cycling team (strength in 2019)
- Don’t have guys wanting or bought in to playing a Bannister type defensive system. Seems they’ve tried it a couple times this season and failed miserably. Also, don’t have the defensive core to play this system.

Bottom line, as others have said, they lack top talent at any position, which is okay if you have a team built for a specific system. They don’t have the right mix for any system they seem to be trying. Add to that the awful goaltending this season, and what seems to be poor coaching, and they look destined for a top Top 5-10 pick

Good post TB...you certainly nailed a lot of what I'm seeing so far.

Agree that this sums it up nicely. Just a mishmash of talents that don't fit together to play a consistent style of hockey. The team needs to identify how it wants to play and acquire/jettison players accordingly.

Although I will say dump and chase requires speed, tenacity as much as anything else to be successful. Unfortunately the guys we have with speed generally don't have the tenacity to win the puck battle and the guys who would fight for the puck don't have the speed to get to there quickly enough. Dump and chase is a reality for every hockey team as there is always a time it's the best option rather than trying to skate/pass through defenders, but some are better at it than others.

[TruBlueFan_1970]

I thought they’d be in the WC hunt, but this is nothing I saw coming. And no, Army can’t have the fired coach egg on his face again, nor will ownership tolerate it. As others have said, can’t put my finger on it, other than they don’t seem to have a cohesive system.

- Don’t have a fast team, outside a few guys, so they don’t play a fast transition system. Do have some good puck movers on D, so I think this is what they are trying to use
- Don’t have a big/gritty team, so dump and chase fails
- Don’t have guys (outside 2-3) who consistently win board battles, so they fail at being a cycling team (strength in 2019)
- Don’t have guys wanting or bought in to playing a Bannister type defensive system. Seems they’ve tried it a couple times this season and failed miserably. Also, don’t have the defensive core to play this system.

Bottom line, as others have said, they lack top talent at any position, which is okay if you have a team built for a specific system. They don’t have the right mix for any system they seem to be trying. Add to that the awful goaltending this season, and what seems to be poor coaching, and they look destined for a top Top 5-10 pick

Good post TB...you certainly nailed a lot of what I'm seeing so far.

Agree that this sums it up nicely. Just a mishmash of talents that don't fit together to play a consistent style of hockey. The team needs to identify how it wants to play and acquire/jettison players accordingly.

Although I will say dump and chase requires speed, tenacity as much as anything else to be successful. Unfortunately the guys we have with speed generally don't have the tenacity to win the puck battle and the guys who would fight for the puck don't have the speed to get to there quickly enough. Dump and chase is a reality for every hockey team as there is always a time it's the best option rather than trying to skate/pass through defenders, but some are better at it than others.

100% agree on your last comment. Holloway, Suter and Neighbours, and maybe Thomas fit the mold. Buch, Sunny, Schenn, Bjug, Dvo have tenacity, but lack speed. Then you have guys like Joseph, Toro, Walker who have it but lack talent. Just a mishmash as you stated.

[callitwhatyouwant]

If you think this is a Monty problem, you are insane. The definition of insanity mantra of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. You are delusional if you think a Stanley cup winning coach who had the locker room until the young guys got their contracts, an AHL feeder system coach who coached the young guys to get to the big leagues both get fired... and firing Monty who everyone liked before in his 1 stint during the the last core, would be the answer.

Last year i strayed away because it looked like Kyrou and Thomas were both trending in the right direction. But 1 one has got to go. None of the players had problems when Thomas signed his contract. The minute Kyrou signed his contract, this team has been up and down non stop. Correlation doesn't mean causation but all signs points towards that one moment being the franchise defining move. Kyrou has got to be one of the most polarizing figures in St. Louis hockey history.

Thomas signed in July and Kyrou in September of same year, right?

Lower the hyper-boil please!

yes and for a couple months there was 0 noise. whether that was because the players were away or not that was the truth. AS SOON as the Kyrou contract was signed, there were player rumblings that were being reported by Rivers and crew that behind the scenes a couple vets were unhappy that some people got money before they thought they deserved it. This isn't the quote but Rivers and I can't remember which outside source said that a couple players thought that their contracts should have been addressed first. So you know that was coming from either Tarasenko/ROR/Barbs/etc.

I will counter that with some context that after Tarasenko was traded, ROR had quoted that they felt like some of the locker room drama was gone. ROR promptly got traded a little bit later as did Barbs. Barbs from all indication wasn't going to be resigning here but I'm not positive about that. Anyways, Schenn didn't say until about the last couple weeks of that season that the team finally started to come together as a new unit. Who is the constant in all of this since? Kyrou.

I know you are a Kyrou stan, I'm not putting all the blame on him. I'm saying that this core is seemingly defunct, and you need your best players to be your best players. Kyrou and Thomas are supposed to be the best players. They are playing like 3rd line guys on Stanley Cup teams at the moment. That is a massive regression this season. Vitale talked about it this morning. Thomas is on a 50 point pace. Kyrou is on a 26 goal pace. That's a 30+ who we thought should be exceeding 40 goal guy that is doing what guys like Saad have done here. You think Kyrou isn't part of the problem?

[Tony Palazzolo]

They have the talent to have a far better record.

Do they really though? The Blues are not a particularly talented team by NHL standards.

The one thing they are lacking is the superstar. It's not a prerequisite for a winning, competitive team. When you look at the lines it's still a deep team. I'm not saying this is a SC roster, but certainly one that should make the playoffs. They aren't playing like it. Scoring just isn't skill related. It's getting to the front of the net.

I don’t think they even have a “superstar light” type like, say, Tarasenko. A guy who can do some elite things even if they are incomplete in all areas. Thomas is very good (when he’s going, which isn’t now for whatever reason), but he’s not elite. They don’t have a true 1D, a true 1C or a true scoring, first line winger. The goalies have been awful too and I’m not sure why there. Neither is a Patty Roy but they’re better than this.

I don’t know. I look at this roster on paper next to almost any other team and I’m honestly not too surprised by what we’re seeing. We all focus on the Blues so it’s sometimes hard to realize that other teams are always trying to get better too.

The Blues have been able to do decently for a bit here by being greater than the sum of their parts and trying to have depth, but this year it is being exposed.

I beg to differ on Thomas. He's not having a great year, but he's #1 center on most teams. I think he's dealing with an injury. The overall skill is deeper than most, just not top heavy. Look at Edmonton, they have arguably two of the top 5 players in the league. It's the rest of team they have a problem filling out. I'm like everyone else, I'm really disappointed with this season. I'm disappointed because this team is better on paper than they are playing. It's not too much longer until they decide to move on from some players and gather assets.

[John Cocktoastin]

I used to be a big Robert Thomas fan. His effort seems to be seriously lacking and, at times, looks careless and uninspired. He is not a natural leader.

He did have an injury, taking him out for 4 games, but he is on pace for around 58 points this year. Completely unacceptable. His mysterious trajectory downward began two years ago - going from 85 points to 81 last year. This year looks pathetic, mirroring the team's constitution or lack thereof.

I truly believe Army is getting an itchy trigger finger on Kyrou and Thomas. One will go at some point along with Schenn (I believe).

The new core - starting with Neighbours and Holloway - true leaders, will emerge. And I cannot wait to see Carbonneau get here, join that core and do his thing as well.

[PregnantNun]

Idt any coach is bad enough to produce what we are seeing this season. This is a personnel issue.