Question for those not wanting to Rebuild

[Carp4Cy]

Possibly I was naive in thinking they could rebuild while also trying to stay in the hunt.
I'm fine with them trading Gray away, but it does almost eliminate any chances of them competing in 2026 at a level high enough to go very far.
Maybe having a more defined focus on rebuilding is the best path forward w/o worrying much about the W's and L's in the near term.
With hindsight, too bad this focus wasn't put in place a couple years ago when key players had more value and they could already be farther along in this process, but it is what it is, and it will be interesting to follow.
Maybe they can surprise us to the upside in the timeline it takes. They already have some good pieces to work with.

Hypothetical:
Cards lose: Fedde, Miko, Gray (and Palante removed from rotation).
Cards get: Full season of McGreevy, and Quintana and Mahle on one year deals.

What rotation is better?

You can argue the 2026 one. I really liked Gray, but when did he become some Carp-esque anchor in our rotation?

Also, who else is in the rotation if Palante is removed? Your 3, Libby and ???

[AZ_Cardsfan]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

They Could've:

Trade Nado.
Trade Donovan and a C prospect for a young, cost-controlled #2/3 pitcher.
Sign Framber Valdez.
Sign Eugenio Suarez.
Sign Phil Maton.
Sign Ryan Helsley or Kyle Finnegan.
Trade for a RFer.

Lineup:

Wetherholt 2B
Herrera C
Burleson LF
Suarez 3B
Contreras 1B
Gorman DH
New RF
Winn SS
Scott II CF

Bench: Saggese, Church, Torres, Crooks

Rotation:
Valdez, Gray, Newly Acquired P, Liberatore, McGreevy

Pen:
Helsely/Finnegan, Maton, Romero, Graceffo, O'Brien, Svanson, Leahy, Need another Lefty

Obviously this would never happen. But it would've been doable. Hardly impossible. Anyways, this team would've competed in the playoffs.

Predicted contracts for the above:

Trade Nado - save maybe $10 mil
Sign Framber Valdez. - 5/$150 mil $30 per
Sign Eugenio Suarez. - 3/$63 mil $21 per
Sign Phil Maton. - 2/$14.5 $7.25 per
Sign Ryan Helsley 2/$24 mil $12 per
New RFer - I assume straight across cost for Donovan. Who knows.

That adds $60 million to the teams salary and you kept Gray which is $31 mil.

This is like $90 mil addition to what they will probably field this year. Yeah, they could be competitive with that kind of cash infusion. I gotta be honest. I don't think they are telling fibs when they say they didn't make much profit last year. Those TV contracts are the majority of cash for teams and STL doesn't have a large one.

And I'm not sure that lineup wins in the playoffs. You got a rookie leading off (might be great, might not his first year), Gorman at DH who is trending towards unusable. And Herrera behind the plate which looks like a stretch now.

I think they are taking the right path to find some star talent homegrown and cost controlled then feed free agents in. But that' me. I'm willing to give this 2 more years of austerity if I see them making the right moves to build a real core and the Gray trade was one IMO.

[Cardinals4Life]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

They Could've:

Trade Nado.
Trade Donovan and a C prospect for a young, cost-controlled #2/3 pitcher.
Sign Framber Valdez.
Sign Eugenio Suarez.
Sign Phil Maton.
Sign Ryan Helsley or Kyle Finnegan.
Trade for a RFer.

Lineup:

Wetherholt 2B
Herrera C
Burleson LF
Suarez 3B
Contreras 1B
Gorman DH
New RF
Winn SS
Scott II CF

Bench: Saggese, Church, Torres, Crooks

Rotation:
Valdez, Gray, Newly Acquired P, Liberatore, McGreevy

Pen:
Helsely/Finnegan, Maton, Romero, Graceffo, O'Brien, Svanson, Leahy, Need another Lefty

Obviously this would never happen. But it would've been doable. Hardly impossible. Anyways, this team would've competed in the playoffs.

Predicted contracts for the above:

Trade Nado - save maybe $10 mil
Sign Framber Valdez. - 5/$150 mil $30 per
Sign Eugenio Suarez. - 3/$63 mil $21 per
Sign Phil Maton. - 2/$14.5 $7.25 per
Sign Ryan Helsley 2/$24 mil $12 per
New RFer - I assume straight across cost for Donovan. Who knows.

That adds $60 million to the teams salary and you kept Gray which is $31 mil.

This is like $90 mil addition to what they will probably field this year. Yeah, they could be competitive with that kind of cash infusion. I gotta be honest. I don't think they are telling fibs when they say they didn't make much profit last year. Those TV contracts are the majority of cash for teams and STL doesn't have a large one.

And I'm not sure that lineup wins in the playoffs. You got a rookie leading off (might be great, might not his first year), Gorman at DH who is trending towards unusable. And Herrera behind the plate which looks like a stretch now.

I think they are taking the right path to find some star talent homegrown and cost controlled then feed free agents in. But that' me. I'm willing to give this 2 more years of austerity if I see them making the right moves to build a real core and the Gray trade was one IMO.

Yeah, just saying if they'd put the payroll back to where it has typically been, then it COULD be done. I was just attempting to answer the OPs question. Was never gonna happen and I too am hopeful this will be the right path forward....not convinced it will be, though

[AZ_Cardsfan]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

They Could've:

Trade Nado.
Trade Donovan and a C prospect for a young, cost-controlled #2/3 pitcher.
Sign Framber Valdez.
Sign Eugenio Suarez.
Sign Phil Maton.
Sign Ryan Helsley or Kyle Finnegan.
Trade for a RFer.

Lineup:

Wetherholt 2B
Herrera C
Burleson LF
Suarez 3B
Contreras 1B
Gorman DH
New RF
Winn SS
Scott II CF

Bench: Saggese, Church, Torres, Crooks

Rotation:
Valdez, Gray, Newly Acquired P, Liberatore, McGreevy

Pen:
Helsely/Finnegan, Maton, Romero, Graceffo, O'Brien, Svanson, Leahy, Need another Lefty

Obviously this would never happen. But it would've been doable. Hardly impossible. Anyways, this team would've competed in the playoffs.

Predicted contracts for the above:

Trade Nado - save maybe $10 mil
Sign Framber Valdez. - 5/$150 mil $30 per
Sign Eugenio Suarez. - 3/$63 mil $21 per
Sign Phil Maton. - 2/$14.5 $7.25 per
Sign Ryan Helsley 2/$24 mil $12 per
New RFer - I assume straight across cost for Donovan. Who knows.

That adds $60 million to the teams salary and you kept Gray which is $31 mil.

This is like $90 mil addition to what they will probably field this year. Yeah, they could be competitive with that kind of cash infusion. I gotta be honest. I don't think they are telling fibs when they say they didn't make much profit last year. Those TV contracts are the majority of cash for teams and STL doesn't have a large one.

And I'm not sure that lineup wins in the playoffs. You got a rookie leading off (might be great, might not his first year), Gorman at DH who is trending towards unusable. And Herrera behind the plate which looks like a stretch now.

I think they are taking the right path to find some star talent homegrown and cost controlled then feed free agents in. But that' me. I'm willing to give this 2 more years of austerity if I see them making the right moves to build a real core and the Gray trade was one IMO.

Yeah, just saying if they'd put the payroll back to where it has typically been, then it COULD be done. I was just attempting to answer the OPs question. Was never gonna happen and I too am hopeful this will be the right path forward....not convinced it will be, though

OK cool. I mean I'd LIKE to see them competitive in 2026. But I think they would run at a loss with that salary level. We of course don't know. I was on board with higher spending levels back in the seasons Goldie was MVP and Nado was still a legit MOTO bat. They let me down then. I think they let themselves down too because it really hurt the brand not getting after it with the right core.

[Cardinals4Life]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

They Could've:

Trade Nado.
Trade Donovan and a C prospect for a young, cost-controlled #2/3 pitcher.
Sign Framber Valdez.
Sign Eugenio Suarez.
Sign Phil Maton.
Sign Ryan Helsley or Kyle Finnegan.
Trade for a RFer.

Lineup:

Wetherholt 2B
Herrera C
Burleson LF
Suarez 3B
Contreras 1B
Gorman DH
New RF
Winn SS
Scott II CF

Bench: Saggese, Church, Torres, Crooks

Rotation:
Valdez, Gray, Newly Acquired P, Liberatore, McGreevy

Pen:
Helsely/Finnegan, Maton, Romero, Graceffo, O'Brien, Svanson, Leahy, Need another Lefty

Obviously this would never happen. But it would've been doable. Hardly impossible. Anyways, this team would've competed in the playoffs.

Predicted contracts for the above:

Trade Nado - save maybe $10 mil
Sign Framber Valdez. - 5/$150 mil $30 per
Sign Eugenio Suarez. - 3/$63 mil $21 per
Sign Phil Maton. - 2/$14.5 $7.25 per
Sign Ryan Helsley 2/$24 mil $12 per
New RFer - I assume straight across cost for Donovan. Who knows.

That adds $60 million to the teams salary and you kept Gray which is $31 mil.

This is like $90 mil addition to what they will probably field this year. Yeah, they could be competitive with that kind of cash infusion. I gotta be honest. I don't think they are telling fibs when they say they didn't make much profit last year. Those TV contracts are the majority of cash for teams and STL doesn't have a large one.

And I'm not sure that lineup wins in the playoffs. You got a rookie leading off (might be great, might not his first year), Gorman at DH who is trending towards unusable. And Herrera behind the plate which looks like a stretch now.

I think they are taking the right path to find some star talent homegrown and cost controlled then feed free agents in. But that' me. I'm willing to give this 2 more years of austerity if I see them making the right moves to build a real core and the Gray trade was one IMO.

Yeah, just saying if they'd put the payroll back to where it has typically been, then it COULD be done. I was just attempting to answer the OPs question. Was never gonna happen and I too am hopeful this will be the right path forward....not convinced it will be, though

OK cool. I mean I'd LIKE to see them competitive in 2026. But I think they would run at a loss with that salary level. We of course don't know. I was on board with higher spending levels back in the seasons Goldie was MVP and Nado was still a legit MOTO bat. They let me down then. I think they let themselves down too because it really hurt the brand not getting after it with the right core.

The Goldy/Nado era was definitely disappointing!

No shot the Cardinals would lose money with that payroll. No shot.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Not against the rebuild but I want a competitive team by 2027 (if no strike) or 2028. Some of these trades need to get some mlb ready players. I have to believe the value is there. I struggle with Donovan trade but not against it.

My point to be competitive in 2028 you need core players playing this year or next.

I agree. I am being positive that we will be competitive in 2027. Of course, a lot of that depends on Wetherholt and Doyle in particular, but also guys like Mathews, Bernal, and Baez. There’s some more guys Fitts, Mautz, Henderson, and Hjerpe (he could be a lot more than depth if he gets it together) that could provide some depth as well. Hopefully we get someone MLB ready for Donovan as well.

Call me crazy, but I’m also not giving up on Walker and Gorman. I want to see what Bloom’s guys can do with them. We could be pretty decent come 2027. By 2028, I think there definitely should be no excuse to start taking some bigger contracts back on, but even in 2027 it could be a possibility.

My point being, while I’m in favor of this rebuild, I don’t think it should be a long, drawn out one. Nor do I think it should be an excuse for ownership to pocket money. We don’t have a bunch of big contracts weighing us down like a lot of other teams that did the rebuild. I think fans should stay on them about it, but give them a bit of grace this season at least, then see where we are for 2027.

[dugoutrex]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

too late for what ifs - my question is to the tank crowd, you guys wanted this so will you now go out and buy tickets since a lot of the loyal fans who have been going for the last few years will now be sitting this tank job out?

[Stlcardsblues]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

They Could've:

Trade Nado.
Trade Donovan and a C prospect for a young, cost-controlled #2/3 pitcher.
Sign Framber Valdez.
Sign Eugenio Suarez.
Sign Phil Maton.
Sign Ryan Helsley or Kyle Finnegan.
Trade for a RFer.

Lineup:

Wetherholt 2B
Herrera C
Burleson LF
Suarez 3B
Contreras 1B
Gorman DH
New RF
Winn SS
Scott II CF

Bench: Saggese, Church, Torres, Crooks

Rotation:
Valdez, Gray, Newly Acquired P, Liberatore, McGreevy

Pen:
Helsely/Finnegan, Maton, Romero, Graceffo, O'Brien, Svanson, Leahy, Need another Lefty

Obviously this would never happen. But it would've been doable. Hardly impossible. Anyways, this team would've competed in the playoffs.

Not sold signing Valdez meets the requirement of realistic. He is one of the top free agent targets. The larger market teams are going to blow his market well past what was realistic for STL even if Dewitt was going after FAs.

Gray is a number three at this point. Would prefer more upside than a number three starter if I am dealing Donovan. It would need to be a number two part of your suggestion especially if I am adding Crooks.

Who is the RF you are suggesting. The lineup is not contender level not knowing who the RF is. Not sold that lineup is a true contender lineup.

I suggested both Helsley and Maton who were both realistic.

[Stlcardsblues]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

Not against the rebuild but I want a competitive team by 2027 (if no strike) or 2028. Some of these trades need to get some mlb ready players. I have to believe the value is there. I struggle with Donovan trade but not against it.

My point to be competitive in 2028 you need core players playing this year or next.

This is the part people miss. The trades are not only about getting players to build the 27 and 28 roster, it’s also about strengthening our farm system so that when they are ready to contend they have quality prospects to flip. They need to get there core in place first before trying to build it out.

I would be far more concerned about DeWitt going all in on MLB getting a cap than if we are rebuilding. I have serious concerns DeWitt will only properly do the rebuild if he gets his cap and I don’t see the players caving to a cap.

[Stlcardsblues]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

They Could've:

Trade Nado.
Trade Donovan and a C prospect for a young, cost-controlled #2/3 pitcher.
Sign Framber Valdez.
Sign Eugenio Suarez.
Sign Phil Maton.
Sign Ryan Helsley or Kyle Finnegan.
Trade for a RFer.

Lineup:

Wetherholt 2B
Herrera C
Burleson LF
Suarez 3B
Contreras 1B
Gorman DH
New RF
Winn SS
Scott II CF

Bench: Saggese, Church, Torres, Crooks

Rotation:
Valdez, Gray, Newly Acquired P, Liberatore, McGreevy

Pen:
Helsely/Finnegan, Maton, Romero, Graceffo, O'Brien, Svanson, Leahy, Need another Lefty

Obviously this would never happen. But it would've been doable. Hardly impossible. Anyways, this team would've competed in the playoffs.

Predicted contracts for the above:

Trade Nado - save maybe $10 mil
Sign Framber Valdez. - 5/$150 mil $30 per
Sign Eugenio Suarez. - 3/$63 mil $21 per
Sign Phil Maton. - 2/$14.5 $7.25 per
Sign Ryan Helsley 2/$24 mil $12 per
New RFer - I assume straight across cost for Donovan. Who knows.

That adds $60 million to the teams salary and you kept Gray which is $31 mil.

This is like $90 mil addition to what they will probably field this year. Yeah, they could be competitive with that kind of cash infusion. I gotta be honest. I don't think they are telling fibs when they say they didn't make much profit last year. Those TV contracts are the majority of cash for teams and STL doesn't have a large one.

And I'm not sure that lineup wins in the playoffs. You got a rookie leading off (might be great, might not his first year), Gorman at DH who is trending towards unusable. And Herrera behind the plate which looks like a stretch now.

I think they are taking the right path to find some star talent homegrown and cost controlled then feed free agents in. But that' me. I'm willing to give this 2 more years of austerity if I see them making the right moves to build a real core and the Gray trade was one IMO.

Yeah, just saying if they'd put the payroll back to where it has typically been, then it COULD be done. I was just attempting to answer the OPs question. Was never gonna happen and I too am hopeful this will be the right path forward....not convinced it will be, though

OK cool. I mean I'd LIKE to see them competitive in 2026. But I think they would run at a loss with that salary level. We of course don't know. I was on board with higher spending levels back in the seasons Goldie was MVP and Nado was still a legit MOTO bat. They let me down then. I think they let themselves down too because it really hurt the brand not getting after it with the right core.

The Goldy/Nado era was definitely disappointing!

No shot the Cardinals would lose money with that payroll. No shot.

I was far more irritated with how Mo and Dewitt handled the Goldy and Arenado era than this rebuild. They had a chance to build a serious contender around them and instead went cheap with the rest of the roster wasting their years.

I was very much against the one big move an offseason then fringe moves. They needed to add more higher end talent than bargain basement shopping around them.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

They Could've:

Trade Nado.
Trade Donovan and a C prospect for a young, cost-controlled #2/3 pitcher.
Sign Framber Valdez.
Sign Eugenio Suarez.
Sign Phil Maton.
Sign Ryan Helsley or Kyle Finnegan.
Trade for a RFer.

Lineup:

Wetherholt 2B
Herrera C
Burleson LF
Suarez 3B
Contreras 1B
Gorman DH
New RF
Winn SS
Scott II CF

Bench: Saggese, Church, Torres, Crooks

Rotation:
Valdez, Gray, Newly Acquired P, Liberatore, McGreevy

Pen:
Helsely/Finnegan, Maton, Romero, Graceffo, O'Brien, Svanson, Leahy, Need another Lefty

Obviously this would never happen. But it would've been doable. Hardly impossible. Anyways, this team would've competed in the playoffs.

Predicted contracts for the above:

Trade Nado - save maybe $10 mil
Sign Framber Valdez. - 5/$150 mil $30 per
Sign Eugenio Suarez. - 3/$63 mil $21 per
Sign Phil Maton. - 2/$14.5 $7.25 per
Sign Ryan Helsley 2/$24 mil $12 per
New RFer - I assume straight across cost for Donovan. Who knows.

That adds $60 million to the teams salary and you kept Gray which is $31 mil.

This is like $90 mil addition to what they will probably field this year. Yeah, they could be competitive with that kind of cash infusion. I gotta be honest. I don't think they are telling fibs when they say they didn't make much profit last year. Those TV contracts are the majority of cash for teams and STL doesn't have a large one.

And I'm not sure that lineup wins in the playoffs. You got a rookie leading off (might be great, might not his first year), Gorman at DH who is trending towards unusable. And Herrera behind the plate which looks like a stretch now.

I think they are taking the right path to find some star talent homegrown and cost controlled then feed free agents in. But that' me. I'm willing to give this 2 more years of austerity if I see them making the right moves to build a real core and the Gray trade was one IMO.

Yeah, just saying if they'd put the payroll back to where it has typically been, then it COULD be done. I was just attempting to answer the OPs question. Was never gonna happen and I too am hopeful this will be the right path forward....not convinced it will be, though

OK cool. I mean I'd LIKE to see them competitive in 2026. But I think they would run at a loss with that salary level. We of course don't know. I was on board with higher spending levels back in the seasons Goldie was MVP and Nado was still a legit MOTO bat. They let me down then. I think they let themselves down too because it really hurt the brand not getting after it with the right core.

The Goldy/Nado era was definitely disappointing!

No shot the Cardinals would lose money with that payroll. No shot.

I was far more irritated with how Mo and Dewitt handled the Goldy and Arenado era than this rebuild. They had a chance to build a serious contender around them and instead went cheap with the rest of the roster wasting their years.

I was very much against the one big move an offseason then fringe moves. They needed to add more higher end talent than bargain basement shopping around them.

I recognize this is a business and STL isn't a money powerhouse. But that era was one I thought they cheaped out and cheated fans and players of a chance at a title.

[Cardinals4Life]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

They Could've:

Trade Nado.
Trade Donovan and a C prospect for a young, cost-controlled #2/3 pitcher.
Sign Framber Valdez.
Sign Eugenio Suarez.
Sign Phil Maton.
Sign Ryan Helsley or Kyle Finnegan.
Trade for a RFer.

Lineup:

Wetherholt 2B
Herrera C
Burleson LF
Suarez 3B
Contreras 1B
Gorman DH
New RF
Winn SS
Scott II CF

Bench: Saggese, Church, Torres, Crooks

Rotation:
Valdez, Gray, Newly Acquired P, Liberatore, McGreevy

Pen:
Helsely/Finnegan, Maton, Romero, Graceffo, O'Brien, Svanson, Leahy, Need another Lefty

Obviously this would never happen. But it would've been doable. Hardly impossible. Anyways, this team would've competed in the playoffs.

Predicted contracts for the above:

Trade Nado - save maybe $10 mil
Sign Framber Valdez. - 5/$150 mil $30 per
Sign Eugenio Suarez. - 3/$63 mil $21 per
Sign Phil Maton. - 2/$14.5 $7.25 per
Sign Ryan Helsley 2/$24 mil $12 per
New RFer - I assume straight across cost for Donovan. Who knows.

That adds $60 million to the teams salary and you kept Gray which is $31 mil.

This is like $90 mil addition to what they will probably field this year. Yeah, they could be competitive with that kind of cash infusion. I gotta be honest. I don't think they are telling fibs when they say they didn't make much profit last year. Those TV contracts are the majority of cash for teams and STL doesn't have a large one.

And I'm not sure that lineup wins in the playoffs. You got a rookie leading off (might be great, might not his first year), Gorman at DH who is trending towards unusable. And Herrera behind the plate which looks like a stretch now.

I think they are taking the right path to find some star talent homegrown and cost controlled then feed free agents in. But that' me. I'm willing to give this 2 more years of austerity if I see them making the right moves to build a real core and the Gray trade was one IMO.

Yeah, just saying if they'd put the payroll back to where it has typically been, then it COULD be done. I was just attempting to answer the OPs question. Was never gonna happen and I too am hopeful this will be the right path forward....not convinced it will be, though

OK cool. I mean I'd LIKE to see them competitive in 2026. But I think they would run at a loss with that salary level. We of course don't know. I was on board with higher spending levels back in the seasons Goldie was MVP and Nado was still a legit MOTO bat. They let me down then. I think they let themselves down too because it really hurt the brand not getting after it with the right core.

The Goldy/Nado era was definitely disappointing!

No shot the Cardinals would lose money with that payroll. No shot.

I was far more irritated with how Mo and Dewitt handled the Goldy and Arenado era than this rebuild. They had a chance to build a serious contender around them and instead went cheap with the rest of the roster wasting their years.

I was very much against the one big move an offseason then fringe moves. They needed to add more higher end talent than bargain basement shopping around them.

Completely agree. They have always been like that. Make some good moves (Nado, Goldy), but then nvee quite finish it around them!

[Stlcardsblues]

For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?

They Could've:

Trade Nado.
Trade Donovan and a C prospect for a young, cost-controlled #2/3 pitcher.
Sign Framber Valdez.
Sign Eugenio Suarez.
Sign Phil Maton.
Sign Ryan Helsley or Kyle Finnegan.
Trade for a RFer.

Lineup:

Wetherholt 2B
Herrera C
Burleson LF
Suarez 3B
Contreras 1B
Gorman DH
New RF
Winn SS
Scott II CF

Bench: Saggese, Church, Torres, Crooks

Rotation:
Valdez, Gray, Newly Acquired P, Liberatore, McGreevy

Pen:
Helsely/Finnegan, Maton, Romero, Graceffo, O'Brien, Svanson, Leahy, Need another Lefty

Obviously this would never happen. But it would've been doable. Hardly impossible. Anyways, this team would've competed in the playoffs.

Predicted contracts for the above:

Trade Nado - save maybe $10 mil
Sign Framber Valdez. - 5/$150 mil $30 per
Sign Eugenio Suarez. - 3/$63 mil $21 per
Sign Phil Maton. - 2/$14.5 $7.25 per
Sign Ryan Helsley 2/$24 mil $12 per
New RFer - I assume straight across cost for Donovan. Who knows.

That adds $60 million to the teams salary and you kept Gray which is $31 mil.

This is like $90 mil addition to what they will probably field this year. Yeah, they could be competitive with that kind of cash infusion. I gotta be honest. I don't think they are telling fibs when they say they didn't make much profit last year. Those TV contracts are the majority of cash for teams and STL doesn't have a large one.

And I'm not sure that lineup wins in the playoffs. You got a rookie leading off (might be great, might not his first year), Gorman at DH who is trending towards unusable. And Herrera behind the plate which looks like a stretch now.

I think they are taking the right path to find some star talent homegrown and cost controlled then feed free agents in. But that' me. I'm willing to give this 2 more years of austerity if I see them making the right moves to build a real core and the Gray trade was one IMO.

Yeah, just saying if they'd put the payroll back to where it has typically been, then it COULD be done. I was just attempting to answer the OPs question. Was never gonna happen and I too am hopeful this will be the right path forward....not convinced it will be, though

OK cool. I mean I'd LIKE to see them competitive in 2026. But I think they would run at a loss with that salary level. We of course don't know. I was on board with higher spending levels back in the seasons Goldie was MVP and Nado was still a legit MOTO bat. They let me down then. I think they let themselves down too because it really hurt the brand not getting after it with the right core.

The Goldy/Nado era was definitely disappointing!

No shot the Cardinals would lose money with that payroll. No shot.

I was far more irritated with how Mo and Dewitt handled the Goldy and Arenado era than this rebuild. They had a chance to build a serious contender around them and instead went cheap with the rest of the roster wasting their years.

I was very much against the one big move an offseason then fringe moves. They needed to add more higher end talent than bargain basement shopping around them.

Completely agree. They have always been like that. Make some good moves (Nado, Goldy), but then nvee quite finish it around them!

2000 to 2006 they would add a Sanders or Walker among others. 2016 on they went cheap figuring they could get a playoff spot and see how things fall. Nevermind, completely ignoring adding impact at the trade deadline.

[Bushiro]

People don't want a rebuild? Fascinating.

When the Cardinals have constantly put a quality team on the field for a few decades now....littered with stars and a few hall of farmers...why would they want a rebuild...obviously the position this franchise is in right now calls for one....but the same people not happy about a rebuild... are the same ones who seen this coming for awhile now... because of Mozeliak and Dewitt ....the cards should not be in this position to have to rebuild....hell they didn't even want to use the term rebuild....Mozeliak calling it a reset....give me a break....and by the declining attendance numbers....it's just not a few on this board that's displeased

[Stlcardsblues]

People don't want a rebuild? Fascinating.

When the Cardinals have constantly put a quality team on the field for a few decades now....littered with stars and a few hall of farmers...why would they want a rebuild...obviously the position this franchise is in right now calls for one....but the same people not happy about a rebuild... are the same ones who seen this coming for awhile now... because of Mozeliak and Dewitt ....the cards should not be in this position to have to rebuild....hell they didn't even want to use the term rebuild....Mozeliak calling it a reset....give me a break....and by the declining attendance numbers....it's just not a few on this board that's displeased

This is 100% my stance. I despise DeWitt and Mo put this franchise in this situation. The team is in this situation because of their stubbornness and arrogance. With that said, they are here and this has taken a decade to destroy, it’s not being fixed in one offseason.

I don’t fault those frustrated with Mo and DeWitt for putting the Cardinals in this situation. No one should be happy or accepting of the state they put this franchise in. That’s different from those of us who have looked at this realistically and see the damage they have done and see this will take time to rebuild and correct.

There is no quick fixes. They tried that and it stuck this franchise in four years of mediocrity wasting valuable time to fix it.

Blooms moves might not be the correct ones, times will tell. This is now on Bloom to show he can correct this.

[Cardinals4Life]

People don't want a rebuild? Fascinating.

When the Cardinals have constantly put a quality team on the field for a few decades now....littered with stars and a few hall of farmers...why would they want a rebuild...obviously the position this franchise is in right now calls for one....but the same people not happy about a rebuild... are the same ones who seen this coming for awhile now... because of Mozeliak and Dewitt ....the cards should not be in this position to have to rebuild....hell they didn't even want to use the term rebuild....Mozeliak calling it a reset....give me a break....and by the declining attendance numbers....it's just not a few on this board that's displeased

This is 100% my stance. I despise DeWitt and Mo put this franchise in this situation. The team is in this situation because of their stubbornness and arrogance. With that said, they are here and this has taken a decade to destroy, it’s not being fixed in one offseason.

I don’t fault those frustrated with Mo and DeWitt for putting the Cardinals in this situation. No one should be happy or accepting of the state they put this franchise in. That’s different from those of us who have looked at this realistically and see the damage they have done and see this will take time to rebuild and correct.

There is no quick fixes. They tried that and it stuck this franchise in four years of mediocrity wasting valuable time to fix it.

Blooms moves might not be the correct ones, times will tell. This is now on Bloom to show he can correct this.

I agree with most, except a quick fix is possible. They havent tried quality quick fixes. They've tried mediocre fixes and been left with a mediocre product.