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TraveledLessRoad wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 17:16 pm I sort of wonder if trading Donovan is predicated on whether/if they can move some of these more veteran, high salary guys like Gray, Nado, Willy. What I mean by this is; they have to keep some kind of veteran leadership in that clubhouse. They've already moved Sonny...if they can move Nado and Willy, then I almost wonder if that makes it MORE likely that they keep Donovan and potentially extend him. Regardless, this offseason is already kind of fun

No no, they’re not going to keep BD because of vet leadership.

Bully4you wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 15:40 pm Now wants to trade Contreras, Arenado and Donovan.
Can you say Fire Sale.....
Incoming.

If he moves all these guys payroll might be lowest in the NL Central.

https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles ... 5_43136105

Good news. Take his contract and his drama elsewhere.

TraveledLessRoad wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 17:16 pm I sort of wonder if trading Donovan is predicated on whether/if they can move some of these more veteran, high salary guys like Gray, Nado, Willy. What I mean by this is; they have to keep some kind of veteran leadership in that clubhouse. They've already moved Sonny...if they can move Nado and Willy, then I almost wonder if that makes it MORE likely that they keep Donovan and potentially extend him. Regardless, this offseason is already kind of fun

Donovan will net the biggest package of all of them.

I’ve always thought that it was better than 50/50 that Contreras would be moved. There will be a market for him and the fact that he plays 1B now just blocks a natural progression for a couple of the younger guys. Not a surprise to me.

ramfandan wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 15:51 pm Back on Sept. 27th I started a thread thst I felt Bloom would clean house this offseason. Several doubted he would. Thought he would move slowly.

This is no surprise to me.

I wish he would clean house of certain leadership and not just players. The organizational rot has to go deeper than just Mo.

The philosophical shift isn’t going to work if you just use the same people to lead different farmhands. You will get Gorman and Walker level failures among our top draft picks all over again.

Bully4you wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 15:40 pm Now wants to trade Contreras, Arenado and Donovan.
Can you say Fire Sale.....
Incoming.

If he moves all these guys payroll might be lowest in the NL Central.

https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles ... 5_43136105

That leaves us with...

• Gray replaced by Fitts
• Contreras replaced by Burleson
• Arenado replaced by Gorman or Fermin or Saggese
• Donovan replaced by Wetherholt
• Probably can't trade Nootbar because of his health. They could wait until the trade deadline or after the season.
• I wonder if Romero is on the trading block. They could wait until the trade deadline.

DH Herrera
C Pages (backup Pozo)
1B Burleson
2B Wetherholt (could be Saggese or Torres or Fermin on opening day)
SS Winn
3B Gorman or Fermin or Saggese
LF Nootbar or Fermin or Torres
CF Scott
RF Church or Torres or Nootbar or Walker


So... still poor overall OF, poor 3B, and poor overall pitching. Same as before.
Probably will try to pick up some cheap pitching depth just before spring training.

I hope they send a lot of money with Contreras and Arenado and get some prospects back.
If not, they are just saving Dewitt money and not quickening the rebuild.

Bully4you wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 15:40 pm Now wants to trade Contreras, Arenado and Donovan.
Can you say Fire Sale.....
Incoming.

If he moves all these guys payroll might be lowest in the NL Central.

https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles ... 5_43136105

Nothing really new it that.
Bloom has been very clear about the possibility - and the return for Contreras (2 years of control and a below-market contract) could be as high or higher than that for Donovan.
And it would be ironically full circle.
I was the only person on the planet who correctly predicted on the day Conteras was signed that he would be moved to 1B when PG's contract expired.
Everyone without exception said I was wrong - but obviously I was correct.
And now, if Bloom does trade Contreras, the primary reason (other than the return) would be to help accommodate a move to 1B for Herrera (no serious-minded person believes for a moment STL believes he can be a starting MLB catcher long-term) in a time share with Burleson.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
(Again.)

cardstatman wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 19:00 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 15:40 pm Now wants to trade Contreras, Arenado and Donovan.
Can you say Fire Sale.....
Incoming.

If he moves all these guys payroll might be lowest in the NL Central.

https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles ... 5_43136105

That leaves us with...

• Gray replaced by Fitts
• Contreras replaced by Burleson
• Arenado replaced by Gorman or Fermin or Saggese
• Donovan replaced by Wetherholt
• Probably can't trade Nootbar because of his health. They could wait until the trade deadline or after the season.
• I wonder if Romero is on the trading block. They could wait until the trade deadline.

DH Herrera
C Pages (backup Pozo)
1B Burleson
2B Wetherholt (could be Saggese or Torres or Fermin on opening day)
SS Winn
3B Gorman or Fermin or Saggese
LF Nootbar or Fermin or Torres
CF Scott
RF Church or Torres or Nootbar or Walker


So... still poor overall OF, poor 3B, and poor overall pitching. Same as before.
Probably will try to pick up some cheap pitching depth just before spring training.

I hope they send a lot of money with Contreras and Arenado and get some prospects back.
If not, they are just saving Dewitt money and not quickening the rebuild.

I agree only way this makes sense is if they gain some nice prospects or a controlled younger player.

Alex Reyes Cy Young wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 19:31 pm

cardstatman wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 19:00 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 15:40 pm Now wants to trade Contreras, Arenado and Donovan.
Can you say Fire Sale.....
Incoming.

If he moves all these guys payroll might be lowest in the NL Central.

https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles ... 5_43136105

That leaves us with...

• Gray replaced by Fitts
• Contreras replaced by Burleson
• Arenado replaced by Gorman or Fermin or Saggese
• Donovan replaced by Wetherholt
• Probably can't trade Nootbar because of his health. They could wait until the trade deadline or after the season.
• I wonder if Romero is on the trading block. They could wait until the trade deadline.

DH Herrera
C Pages (backup Pozo)
1B Burleson
2B Wetherholt (could be Saggese or Torres or Fermin on opening day)
SS Winn
3B Gorman or Fermin or Saggese
LF Nootbar or Fermin or Torres
CF Scott
RF Church or Torres or Nootbar or Walker


So... still poor overall OF, poor 3B, and poor overall pitching. Same as before.
Probably will try to pick up some cheap pitching depth just before spring training.

I hope they send a lot of money with Contreras and Arenado and get some prospects back.
If not, they are just saving Dewitt money and not quickening the rebuild.

I agree only way this makes sense is if they gain some nice prospects or a controlled younger player.

OR, the payroll is less than 100 mil, and the Bill’s are smiling all the way to the bank, that they probably own!
That’s what makes the most sense!

I would hope so, such a stupid signing.

Hoosier59 wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 19:39 pm

Alex Reyes Cy Young wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 19:31 pm

cardstatman wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 19:00 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 15:40 pm Now wants to trade Contreras, Arenado and Donovan.
Can you say Fire Sale.....
Incoming.

If he moves all these guys payroll might be lowest in the NL Central.

https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles ... 5_43136105

That leaves us with...

• Gray replaced by Fitts
• Contreras replaced by Burleson
• Arenado replaced by Gorman or Fermin or Saggese
• Donovan replaced by Wetherholt
• Probably can't trade Nootbar because of his health. They could wait until the trade deadline or after the season.
• I wonder if Romero is on the trading block. They could wait until the trade deadline.

DH Herrera
C Pages (backup Pozo)
1B Burleson
2B Wetherholt (could be Saggese or Torres or Fermin on opening day)
SS Winn
3B Gorman or Fermin or Saggese
LF Nootbar or Fermin or Torres
CF Scott
RF Church or Torres or Nootbar or Walker


So... still poor overall OF, poor 3B, and poor overall pitching. Same as before.
Probably will try to pick up some cheap pitching depth just before spring training.

I hope they send a lot of money with Contreras and Arenado and get some prospects back.
If not, they are just saving Dewitt money and not quickening the rebuild.

I agree only way this makes sense is if they gain some nice prospects or a controlled younger player.

OR, the payroll is less than 100 mil, and the Bill’s are smiling all the way to the bank, that they probably own!
That’s what makes the most sense!

What is the floor for Cardinals attendance? KC dumped for 7 years and now has consecutive winning seasons but they were 25th in attendance this season. The associated loss in ticket revenue, concessions and merchandise could offset the money they are pocketing.

I agree with moving Contreras, Gray and Arenado but it would be a mistake to completely abandon winning.

Melville wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 19:08 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 15:40 pm Now wants to trade Contreras, Arenado and Donovan.
Can you say Fire Sale.....
Incoming.

If he moves all these guys payroll might be lowest in the NL Central.

https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles ... 5_43136105

Nothing really new it that.
Bloom has been very clear about the possibility - and the return for Contreras (2 years of control and a below-market contract) could be as high or higher than that for Donovan.
And it would be ironically full circle.
I was the only person on the planet who correctly predicted on the day Conteras was signed that he would be moved to 1B when PG's contract expired.
Everyone without exception said I was wrong - but obviously I was correct.
And now, if Bloom does trade Contreras, the primary reason (other than the return) would be to help accommodate a move to 1B for Herrera (no serious-minded person believes for a moment STL believes he can be a starting MLB catcher long-term) in a time share with Burleson.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
(Again.)

LMAO.....STILL can’t help yourself can you???
Always appreciate you giving us your RESUME.
That’s our Sideshow Clown at his best!

It would be interesting to see what kind of return the Cards could get for WC. Burleson could land the 1B job.

Bully4you wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 15:40 pm Now wants to trade Contreras, Arenado and Donovan.
Can you say Fire Sale.....
Incoming.

If he moves all these guys payroll might be lowest in the NL Central.

https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles ... 5_43136105

We can only hope.

That's fine and dandy as long as the money is reinvested in the roster and not Billy Boy 's pocket. And no [nonsense] about using it for arbitration increases. That should already be accounted for.

Many of us here can see the movement of the veteran players mentioned. We all are just waiting on what the return is. If Arenado, Gray, Contreras and Donovan are moved, that leaves
C Crooks, Herrera, Pages
1B Burleson Herrera
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Gorman Saggese
LF Nootbaar
CF Scott
RF Walker Burleson
The infield is OK, looking for Gorman to sink or swim. The outfield is weak and has been for years. I truly believe that Herrera will be given every opportunity to see if the work put in over the winter has changed his abilities behind the plate. If not, then 1B/DH are in his future.

If we do move Gray, Contreras, Arenado, Romero AND Donovan we are looking at payroll commitments around 20-30 million not counting what we have to eat in dollars to move the other players. That’s the 5 highest payroll guys going into 2026.

We don’t know what the returns are on the traded players and we don’t know how much BDW is willing to reinvest in the 2026 team. To me, it’s completely unfathomable to have a 2026 Cardinals team with a payroll in the 60-80 million dollar range. There are so many questions to still be answered.