Extensions?

[dugoutrex]

I would offer a 5-year to their current “best” player, Donovan, as those should cover his remaining best playing years. He’s not a superstar of course, but every competitive team needs one on their team

Reminds of the value that Stephan Kwan means to Cleveland. Of course they have a superstar in Jose Ramirez, but without a Kwan on 5 the team, they would have finished several positions lower in the pecking order. Bit Kwan, like Donovan, is also targeted by many teams, as being a valuable addition for their playoff hunts.

BD won't even be on the team come Jan 1

[Cusecards]

No need (IMO) to rush into any extensions at this time.

IF JJW turns out to be the stud we all hope he will become, then he's the only one who could become an all-star and deserving of an early extension.

I would wait another year at least before considering M. Winn, Bumbles and I. Hererra.

Agree
In general you usually offer extensions to buy up the last couple of Arb seasons.
That would only apply to Donovan and Noot(no way he gets an extension!).
The others are too early.

[rockondlouie]

No need (IMO) to rush into any extensions at this time.

IF JJW turns out to be the stud we all hope he will become, then he's the only one who could become an all-star and deserving of an early extension.

I would wait another year at least before considering M. Winn, Bumbles and I. Hererra.

Agree
In general you usually offer extensions to buy up the last couple of Arb seasons.
That would only apply to Donovan and Noot(no way he gets an extension!).
The others are too early.

Way too early unless one of them (Winn, Bumbles or Hererra) makes an all-star team, they're simply not worth risking an extension too early in the HOPES they become stars and you get a "bargain".

[Cusecards]

No need (IMO) to rush into any extensions at this time.

IF JJW turns out to be the stud we all hope he will become, then he's the only one who could become an all-star and deserving of an early extension.

I would wait another year at least before considering M. Winn, Bumbles and I. Hererra.

Agree
In general you usually offer extensions to buy up the last couple of Arb seasons.
That would only apply to Donovan and Noot(no way he gets an extension!).
The others are too early.

Way too early unless one of them (Winn, Bumbles or Hererra) makes an all-star team, they're simply not worth risking an extension too early in the HOPES they become stars and you get a "bargain".

Agree

[mattmitchl44]

No need (IMO) to rush into any extensions at this time.

IF JJW turns out to be the stud we all hope he will become, then he's the only one who could become an all-star and deserving of an early extension.

I would wait another year at least before considering M. Winn, Bumbles and I. Hererra.

Agree
In general you usually offer extensions to buy up the last couple of Arb seasons.
That would only apply to Donovan and Noot(no way he gets an extension!).
The others are too early.

Way too early unless one of them (Winn, Bumbles or Hererra) makes an all-star team, they're simply not worth risking an extension too early in the HOPES they become stars and you get a "bargain".

If you sign them at the right price, you don't need them to become a "star" in order to make it a team-friendly deal.

If you could sign Burleson or Herrera for several years at $6, $7, etc. million in AAV, if they are just solid 2+ fWAR players you come out ahead.

[rockondlouie]

No need (IMO) to rush into any extensions at this time.

IF JJW turns out to be the stud we all hope he will become, then he's the only one who could become an all-star and deserving of an early extension.

I would wait another year at least before considering M. Winn, Bumbles and I. Hererra.

Agree
In general you usually offer extensions to buy up the last couple of Arb seasons.
That would only apply to Donovan and Noot(no way he gets an extension!).
The others are too early.

Way too early unless one of them (Winn, Bumbles or Hererra) makes an all-star team, they're simply not worth risking an extension too early in the HOPES they become stars and you get a "bargain".

If you sign them at the right price, you don't need them to become a "star" in order to make it a team-friendly deal.

If you could sign Burleson or Herrera for several years at $6, $7, etc. million in AAV, if they are just solid 2+ fWAR players you come out ahead.

And if they crash & burn, then your payroll is screwed.

Plus no agent worth two cents is letting his client sign a "team-friendly" deal, that's wish casting on your part matt.

Let em' go through arbitration.

NO EXTENSIONS until they've earned it and NONE of the current Cardinals have earned it.

JMO

[mattmitchl44]

And if they crash & burn, then your payroll is screwed.

Not at $6, $7 million a year. That's next to nothing for the team.

Plus no agent worth two cents is letting his client sign a "team-friendly" deal, that's wish casting on your part matt.

They do all the time.

If you offer Burleson like 4 yrs./$24 million ($6 million AAV) with a team option year at $10 million, that kind of guaranteed money is potentially huge for him - that's potentially "generational wealth" with no risk - but negligible risk for the team.

NO EXTENSIONS until they've earned it

Waiting for them to "earn it" is how you end up paying a lot more for past production rather than future production.

[ecleme22]

No need (IMO) to rush into any extensions at this time.

IF JJW turns out to be the stud we all hope he will become, then he's the only one who could become an all-star and deserving of an early extension.

I would wait another year at least before considering M. Winn, Bumbles and I. Hererra.

Agree
In general you usually offer extensions to buy up the last couple of Arb seasons.
That would only apply to Donovan and Noot(no way he gets an extension!).
The others are too early.

Way too early unless one of them (Winn, Bumbles or Hererra) makes an all-star team, they're simply not worth risking an extension too early in the HOPES they become stars and you get a "bargain".

If you sign them at the right price, you don't need them to become a "star" in order to make it a team-friendly deal.

If you could sign Burleson or Herrera for several years at $6, $7, etc. million in AAV, if they are just solid 2+ fWAR players you come out ahead.

And if they crash & burn, then your payroll is screwed.

Plus no agent worth two cents is letting his client sign a "team-friendly" deal, that's wish casting on your part matt.

Let em' go through arbitration.

NO EXTENSIONS until they've earned it and NONE of the current Cardinals have earned it.

JMO

I agree unless the player is an absolute stud.

[C-Unit]

NO EXTENSIONS until they've earned it

Waiting for them to "earn it" is how you end up paying a lot more for past production rather than future production.

This right here is what I expected to be the crux of the discussion. And it is a very good discussion.

[ecleme22]

NO EXTENSIONS until they've earned it

Waiting for them to "earn it" is how you end up paying a lot more for past production rather than future production.

This right here is what I expected to be the crux of the discussion. And it is a very good discussion.

Well, you're not paying for 'past production.' You're paying the current market rate.

According to Google, Lars Nootbar might make 5.7mil in 2026. If he had a 4 WAR in 2025, he might make 12mil (or more) in 2026.

Now if, as some on here suggested, we sign Lars to like a 5 year/35mil deal, we would not only be paying MORE than what's he's worth, but we would be 'stuck' with him.

[zoiks]

Chase Davis on the way…to being DFA’d

Fans are delusional about their team’s prospects

[renostl]

NO EXTENSIONS until they've earned it

Waiting for them to "earn it" is how you end up paying a lot more for past production rather than future production.

This right here is what I expected to be the crux of the discussion. And it is a very good discussion.

Well, you're not paying for 'past production.' You're paying the current market rate.

According to Google, Lars Nootbar might make 5.7mil in 2026. If he had a 4 WAR in 2025, he might make 12mil (or more) in 2026.

Now if, as some on here suggested, we sign Lars to like a 5 year/35mil deal, we would not only be paying MORE than what's he's worth, but we would be 'stuck' with him.

Lars aside and in general extensions I do not see a lot of upside on extensions.

Aren't contracts control?
As long as a player produces to the contract or outperforms the contract
a team is not stuck with a player.

[C-Unit]

Chase Davis on the way…to being DFA’d

Fans are delusional about their team’s prospects

Yeah, that's a good thing to focus on from the OP. Thanks for sharing.

[mattmitchl44]

NO EXTENSIONS until they've earned it

Waiting for them to "earn it" is how you end up paying a lot more for past production rather than future production.

This right here is what I expected to be the crux of the discussion. And it is a very good discussion.

Well, you're not paying for 'past production.' You're paying the current market rate.

According to Google, Lars Nootbar might make 5.7mil in 2026. If he had a 4 WAR in 2025, he might make 12mil (or more) in 2026.

Now if, as some on here suggested, we sign Lars to like a 5 year/35mil deal, we would not only be paying MORE than what's he's worth, but we would be 'stuck' with him.

Lars aside and in general extensions I do not see a lot of upside on extensions.

Aren't contracts control?
As long as a player produces to the contract or outperforms the contract
a team is not stuck with a player.

The point with these early extensions is that when you develop a young player who is part of your "core" - and I'll define "core" as (1) a SP in your rotation, (2) a starting position player/DH, or (3) your closer - is that you generally want to keep them through their age 30 seasons (though their "prime"), and maybe have team options for their age 31 and age 32 seasons. Then you let them go (or trade them) and let some other team pay them into their mid-30s when they are expected to be in decline.

And if by signing those guys to extensions early you can get a somewhat lower AAV, that's a win for the team as well.

[mattmitchl44]

NO EXTENSIONS until they've earned it

Waiting for them to "earn it" is how you end up paying a lot more for past production rather than future production.

This right here is what I expected to be the crux of the discussion. And it is a very good discussion.

Well, you're not paying for 'past production.' You're paying the current market rate.

According to Google, Lars Nootbar might make 5.7mil in 2026. If he had a 4 WAR in 2025, he might make 12mil (or more) in 2026.

Now if, as some on here suggested, we sign Lars to like a 5 year/35mil deal, we would not only be paying MORE than what's he's worth, but we would be 'stuck' with him.

I don't understand your scenario.

If Nootbaar had been a 4 fWAR player in 2025, they would LOVE to have him locked up for 3 or 4 more years at $7 million AAV.

Again - no contracts, whether you are signing expensive veteran FAs on long deals, cheap veteran FAs on short deals, young players to early extensions, etc. are going to work out 100% of the time. It is ALWAYS a risk/reward mix. But extensions for young players - at the right team-friendly price for each - are going to be more reward than risk.

[sikeston bulldog2]

NO EXTENSIONS until they've earned it

Waiting for them to "earn it" is how you end up paying a lot more for past production rather than future production.

This right here is what I expected to be the crux of the discussion. And it is a very good discussion.

Good discussion. I’d lock up Winn. Current GG, will only hit better. With JJ at second, may be the next Ozzie/Herr.