the braves are the model to follow in terms of rebuilding

[ecleme22]

a number of yrs ago the braves went into a rebuild that lasted for a few yrs...they decided to keep freeman and basically jettisoned everyone else and built a team with trades and from within..the sad truth is rebuilds do not always work but winning 75-80 games season after season isnt appealing...keep adding high upside youngsters and if someone emerges as a guy worthy of extending do it...

Rebuilds always work when smart ppl are involved

[smilinjoefission]

Losing Acuna J hurt them...ALOT...next year should be different, he should be 100% game form, and they got him 3 more seasons at $17m per, got Albies at $7mill per for 2 more seasons. They have a window, they need to win during the next 2-3 seasons. If he can get his game back to 2023 form that Acuna J contract is the biggest bargain in baseball.

[JuanAgosto]

I think this rebuild takes 2 years tops. By 2028, I think Bloom has them ready for post season contention. If old man Billy coughs up some payroll $ for a couple free agents.

This rebuild needed to start in 2023. But Jackass John boy didn't know what to do. So he did what he was good at, sticking his thumb up his (donkey). What a putz.

[ScotchMIrish]

The thing that helped the Braves immensely is the fact that they found two talents in Acuna and Albies, then got them to sign ridiculously low extensions. Without looking it up I believe that Acuna signed an extension around 8/96 and Albies signed something around a 7/35 deal. Those deals allowed them to pursue other deals while those two all stars were making way below market value.

Albies is from Curacao. That money probably makes him the richest man on the island.

Acuna signed after his rookie season. He is great when healthy but has only played a full season twice in seven years since signing the deal.

I remember reading an interview with Albies and he was questioned about taking such a team friendly deal. He was asked about taking a deal that made him so underpaid. Albies said pretty much that he came from absolutely nothing. Grew up with nothing. That signing a contract that would pay him 35 million dollars to play baseball might seem like a small amount but it seemed like a fortune to him. He could finally take care of his family and at the time he had no regrets.

Exactly. Anybody who doesn't understand that has never seen that level of poverty. I grew up living in a single wide but I was rich compared to many places.

[mattmitchl44]

The thing that helped the Braves immensely is the fact that they found two talents in Acuna and Albies, then got them to sign ridiculously low extensions. Without looking it up I believe that Acuna signed an extension around 8/96 and Albies signed something around a 7/35 deal. Those deals allowed them to pursue other deals while those two all stars were making way below market value.

Albies is from Curacao. That money probably makes him the richest man on the island.

Acuna signed after his rookie season. He is great when healthy but has only played a full season twice in seven years since signing the deal.

I remember reading an interview with Albies and he was questioned about taking such a team friendly deal. He was asked about taking a deal that made him so underpaid. Albies said pretty much that he came from absolutely nothing. Grew up with nothing. That signing a contract that would pay him 35 million dollars to play baseball might seem like a small amount but it seemed like a fortune to him. He could finally take care of his family and at the time he had no regrets.

And, granted, maybe not a lot of players (at least ones from the U.S.) start out where Albies did.

However, I still think there are a number of young players who, if you offer them guaranteed "set for life" money, maybe on the order of as little as $10, $12, $15 million TOTAL guaranteed over a number of seasons, would think really hard about taking that even if it might represent only 40% or 50% of what they MIGHT be able to make if they "bet on themselves", took the ML minimum for three years, went to ARB for three years, etc.

IMO - it is a very asymmetric situation - the first $10, $20, $30 million a team is willing to give a young player means relatively little to the team, but it may mean A LOT to the player. That is why teams are so likely to be able to reach "team-friendly" deals with players for long extensions before they get to FA.

[C-Unit]

I think this rebuild takes 2 years tops. By 2028, I think Bloom has them ready for post season contention. If old man Billy coughs up some payroll $ for a couple free agents.

This rebuild needed to start in 2023. But Jackass John boy didn't know what to do. So he did what he was good at, sticking his thumb up his (donkey). What a putz.

I agree with this and I would go with 2027 if it weren't for lockout fears. Hopefully it's a momentum thing where by the end of this season there's real positive momentum that can progress into the next season.

[WLTFE]

The thing that helped the Braves immensely is the fact that they found two talents in Acuna and Albies, then got them to sign ridiculously low extensions. Without looking it up I believe that Acuna signed an extension around 8/96 and Albies signed something around a 7/35 deal. Those deals allowed them to pursue other deals while those two all stars were making way below market value.

Albies is from Curacao. That money probably makes him the richest man on the island.

Acuna signed after his rookie season. He is great when healthy but has only played a full season twice in seven years since signing the deal.

I remember reading an interview with Albies and he was questioned about taking such a team friendly deal. He was asked about taking a deal that made him so underpaid. Albies said pretty much that he came from absolutely nothing. Grew up with nothing. That signing a contract that would pay him 35 million dollars to play baseball might seem like a small amount but it seemed like a fortune to him. He could finally take care of his family and at the time he had no regrets.

Exactly. Anybody who doesn't understand that has never seen that level of poverty. I grew up living in a single wide but I was rich compared to many places.

+1...there's ahuge difference between relative poverty and absolute poverty.

[An Old Friend]

a number of yrs ago the braves went into a rebuild that lasted for a few yrs...they decided to keep freeman and basically jettisoned everyone else and built a team with trades and from within..the sad truth is rebuilds do not always work but winning 75-80 games season after season isnt appealing...keep adding high upside youngsters and if someone emerges as a guy worthy of extending do it...

Why? What have they won?

The World Series... which feels like the goal.

[dugoutrex]

The thing that helped the Braves immensely is the fact that they found two talents in Acuna and Albies, then got them to sign ridiculously low extensions. Without looking it up I believe that Acuna signed an extension around 8/96 and Albies signed something around a 7/35 deal. Those deals allowed them to pursue other deals while those two all stars were making way below market value.

Michael Harris wasn't a bad 8 year get either.

under .700 ops last year - I was going to list him as one of their ugly extensions

Down year. 758 ops career. Heck, that would have looked great on the Cards last year.

he was basically Nootbar last year

[An Old Friend]

The thing that helped the Braves immensely is the fact that they found two talents in Acuna and Albies, then got them to sign ridiculously low extensions. Without looking it up I believe that Acuna signed an extension around 8/96 and Albies signed something around a 7/35 deal. Those deals allowed them to pursue other deals while those two all stars were making way below market value.

Michael Harris wasn't a bad 8 year get either.

under .700 ops last year - I was going to list him as one of their ugly extensions

Down year. 758 ops career. Heck, that would have looked great on the Cards last year.

he was basically Nootbar last year

LOL, nothing like Nootbaar.

Harris swings at EVERYTHING. At one point last season, he went two months between walks.

[mattmitchl44]

a number of yrs ago the braves went into a rebuild that lasted for a few yrs...they decided to keep freeman and basically jettisoned everyone else and built a team with trades and from within..the sad truth is rebuilds do not always work but winning 75-80 games season after season isnt appealing...keep adding high upside youngsters and if someone emerges as a guy worthy of extending do it...

Why? What have they won?

The World Series... which feels like the goal.

Yeah - since their "rebuild" ended in 2018, all they've done is:

- average a .570 winning pct. (92+ wins),
- made the playoffs seven out of eight years,
- made it to two NLCS, winning one, and
- won the one World Series they made it to.

Pffff.

And they've done that by being 4th in team fWAR over that period, behind the Dodgers, Yankees, and Astros.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Yeah - since their "rebuild" ended in 2018, all they've done is:

- average a .570 winning pct. (92+ wins),
- made the playoffs seven out of eight years,
- made it to two NLCS, winning one, and
- won the one World Series they made it to.

Pffff.

And they've done that by being 4th in team fWAR over that period, behind the Dodgers, Yankees, and Astros.

Yea, but surely their fans walked out on them and they have struggled to get them back to the ballpark.

[mattmitchl44]

Yeah - since their "rebuild" ended in 2018, all they've done is:

- average a .570 winning pct. (92+ wins),
- made the playoffs seven out of eight years,
- made it to two NLCS, winning one, and
- won the one World Series they made it to.

Pffff.

And they've done that by being 4th in team fWAR over that period, behind the Dodgers, Yankees, and Astros.

Yea, but surely their fans walked out on them and they have struggled to get them back to the ballpark.

When they dropped their payroll to 22nd in MLB in 2015, 29th in 2016, and 19th in 2017 - THEY REFUSED TO COMPETE!

And then had the nerve to only have the 21st and 22nd highest payrolls in 2018-2019 when they started winning again - THEY REFUSED TO RAISE PAYROLL AGGRESSIVELY EVEN THOUGH ATTENDANCE WAS BACK UP!

CT would have burned the stadium down around them in 2019 on principle alone while they were winning 97 games.

[Youboughtit]

a number of yrs ago the braves went into a rebuild that lasted for a few yrs...they decided to keep freeman and basically jettisoned everyone else and built a team with trades and from within..the sad truth is rebuilds do not always work but winning 75-80 games season after season isnt appealing...keep adding high upside youngsters and if someone emerges as a guy worthy of extending do it...

$220m payroll. Exactly. That’s the big difference.

Are you still yelling at clouds?

Just saying that’s the formula the Brave used and the difference.

[Youboughtit]

a number of yrs ago the braves went into a rebuild that lasted for a few yrs...they decided to keep freeman and basically jettisoned everyone else and built a team with trades and from within..the sad truth is rebuilds do not always work but winning 75-80 games season after season isnt appealing...keep adding high upside youngsters and if someone emerges as a guy worthy of extending do it...

$220m payroll. Exactly. That’s the big difference.

Winning like the elite organizations do requires cooking with multiple ingredients. Large increases to payroll is one of the final steps in the recipe. Got it?

Time will tell but doubtful. That’s why this plan is doomed to fail unless as some contending means just the NLC

[mattmitchl44]

a number of yrs ago the braves went into a rebuild that lasted for a few yrs...they decided to keep freeman and basically jettisoned everyone else and built a team with trades and from within..the sad truth is rebuilds do not always work but winning 75-80 games season after season isnt appealing...keep adding high upside youngsters and if someone emerges as a guy worthy of extending do it...

$220m payroll. Exactly. That’s the big difference.

Are you still yelling at clouds?

Just saying that’s the formula the Brave used and the difference.

Loading up on young, cost controlled talent and eventually bolstering it with a $170-$180 million payroll is a lot closer to the Braves loading up on young, cost controlled talent and eventually bolstering it with a $200-$220 million payroll than it is to being the Rays who, no matter how much young, cost controlled talent they have, can't push their payroll above $100 million.

And spending $170-$180 million WITHOUT having loaded up on young, cost controlled talent doesn't get you anywhere either.