STLtoday.com

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:15 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:08 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:02 pm

hofmann13 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:57 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:56 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:54 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

So what? If they kept him they would finish next to last again at least now they have prospects who may help them win in the future instead of an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat of St. Louis and wasn’t going to help them win now or in the future

Well, if you thought they had a lousy rotation before the trade.
Well, just look at it after the trade.
I don't give a rats a z z about dEwitt's money.

Do you care about years of control?

control of what exactly. Boston gave up on these 2 for a reason. One looks like a Pallante that can't stay healthy, and the other has no control and hasn't graduated A ball at age 22. Projects like that are a dime a dozen. Its fine to trade a Fermin type or a backup catcher once in a while to take a flyer on one, but you can't expect them to move the needle of your future at all. Odds are better than even that Clarke never produces significant MLB WAR.

They traded an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat and hasn’t helped the cardinals win anything who is getting. Paid like an ace and doesn’t pitch like an ace what expertly were you expecting to get for him? Lol

He pitched deep enough and well enought to win 14 games, which is better than anyone else on either the Cardinals or a lot of other teams. No he's not an ACE but that is a contribution that we aren't going to get now. To me that's worth an incremental $20M of Bill's money that ISN"T going to get reinvested in someone better than Gray. I hope Bloom proves me wrong but I'm waiting.

The $20M to get thru the season with a few less innings of boo-birds, and Gray's experience to lend to whatever AAA pitchers we do promote is still worth something. If he's good in Fenway or on the road, Boston got a huge bargain.

lol he has really helped the young pitchers so far they were cut young’s with his brilliant tutelage he’s been getting worse he’s going to be next season dumped him at the right time instead of being level dumb and waiting until the trade deadline when he had zero value

Can always count on Bully to start quality/insightful/epic threads!

Cusecards wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:23 pm Can always count on Bully to start quality/insightful/epic threads!

If he ain’t whining and complaining he ain’t bully

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:26 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:23 pm Can always count on Bully to start quality/insightful/epic threads!

If he ain’t whining and complaining he ain’t bully

+1000
Hey Oz.......BTW.....you and Satch nailed it yesterday with your Goldfan comments!
Speaking of whiners.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:02 pm

hofmann13 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:57 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:56 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:54 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

So what? If they kept him they would finish next to last again at least now they have prospects who may help them win in the future instead of an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat of St. Louis and wasn’t going to help them win now or in the future

Well, if you thought they had a lousy rotation before the trade.
Well, just look at it after the trade.
I don't give a rats a z z about dEwitt's money.

Do you care about years of control?

control of what exactly. Boston gave up on these 2 for a reason. One looks like a Pallante that can't stay healthy, and the other has no control and hasn't graduated A ball at age 22. Projects like that are a dime a dozen. Its fine to trade a Fermin type or a backup catcher once in a while to take a flyer on one, but you can't expect them to move the needle of your future at all. Odds are better than even that Clarke never produces significant MLB WAR.

In the knowledge regarding the future what did it say for Gray?
Is $40 million a wise choice for a WAR of 1.4 or was it due to go up since he was
only paid $25 million in 2025? Grays FIP & WHIP have been going up, his ERA+ coming down.
SG is due to have his regression in innings pitched.
Since the odds are "better than even he'll never produce significant MLB WAR" what will you
give me on him out producing Grays WAR in 2026?

All moves can fall flat. Pitching in particular is subject to injury. I 100% understand not being concerned
with the Cards budget but they do have one, they have always had one, most teams have one.
They have just created more space in theirs. IF we want to think it won't ever show up because of the
current ownership, we can but I don't get why we wouldn't just walk away until the new group shows up.

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:03 pm

hofmann13 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:57 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:56 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:54 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

So what? If they kept him they would finish next to last again at least now they have prospects who may help them win in the future instead of an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat of St. Louis and wasn’t going to help them win now or in the future

Well, if you thought they had a lousy rotation before the trade.
Well, just look at it after the trade.
I don't give a rats a z z about dEwitt's money.

Do you care about years of control?

Yeah sorry, just getting a couple of fringe prospects doesn't get me excited.

Fitts was a FG Top 100 in MLB prospect before he was promoted to the majors last year.

Clarke is a FG Top 100 in MLB prospect right now.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:45 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:03 pm

hofmann13 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:57 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:56 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:54 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

So what? If they kept him they would finish next to last again at least now they have prospects who may help them win in the future instead of an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat of St. Louis and wasn’t going to help them win now or in the future

Well, if you thought they had a lousy rotation before the trade.
Well, just look at it after the trade.
I don't give a rats a z z about dEwitt's money.

Do you care about years of control?

Yeah sorry, just getting a couple of fringe prospects doesn't get me excited.

Fitts was a FG Top 100 in MLB prospect before he was promoted to the majors last year.

Clarke is a FG Top 100 in MLB prospect right now.

damaged goods might be a better description.

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

THIS just confirmed to you the Cardinals are rebuilding?

the Cards will not get any more of my money until the rebuild is complete!

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:52 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:45 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:03 pm

hofmann13 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:57 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:56 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:54 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

So what? If they kept him they would finish next to last again at least now they have prospects who may help them win in the future instead of an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat of St. Louis and wasn’t going to help them win now or in the future

Well, if you thought they had a lousy rotation before the trade.
Well, just look at it after the trade.
I don't give a rats a z z about dEwitt's money.

Do you care about years of control?

Yeah sorry, just getting a couple of fringe prospects doesn't get me excited.

Fitts was a FG Top 100 in MLB prospect before he was promoted to the majors last year.

Clarke is a FG Top 100 in MLB prospect right now.

damaged goods might be a better description.

Deals are always contingent on physicals.

ya gotta laugh. Team says:

"we are rebuilding and going for youth"

Team says:

"we are trading away veterans and stocking the farm"

Team does exactly what it said it would and some are up in arms. You can't make this up.

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:01 pm

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:59 pm It can make you mad and I understand the viewpoint, but the Cardinals aren't trying to compete for a World Series next year. Might as well accept it.

Yep.
It's a rebuild at this point.
Sad.

I dont see it as sad, I think its actually a good step forward. Detroit won 67 games in 2022. Did a reset, moved some guys, bit the bullet and by 2025 they were a playoff team.

We all know that teams in the Midwest are not going to compete with the coastal teams for the high priced free agents. They an either over spend on the aging, over priced vets, or try to rebuild with a youth movement.

I am smart enough to know that they aren't in the playoff discussion for 26, but I am also excited to see some young guys brought in, and up to see what the future holds. Can't wait for the next move. The team was stagnant and boring for a few years. Might just get exciting, even in losses.

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 15:23 pm ya gotta laugh. Team says:

"we are rebuilding and going for youth"

Team says:

"we are trading away veterans and stocking the farm"

Team does exactly what it said it would and some are up in arms. You can't make this up.

I prefer to hear than instead of mos we are going to try to
Compete then not making moves for the team to compete

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:52 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:45 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:03 pm

hofmann13 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:57 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:56 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:54 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

So what? If they kept him they would finish next to last again at least now they have prospects who may help them win in the future instead of an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat of St. Louis and wasn’t going to help them win now or in the future

Well, if you thought they had a lousy rotation before the trade.
Well, just look at it after the trade.
I don't give a rats a z z about dEwitt's money.

Do you care about years of control?

Yeah sorry, just getting a couple of fringe prospects doesn't get me excited.

Fitts was a FG Top 100 in MLB prospect before he was promoted to the majors last year.

Clarke is a FG Top 100 in MLB prospect right now.

damaged goods might be a better description.

The irony of your screen name against this post just screaming right now...lol

hofmann13 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 15:41 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:52 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:45 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:03 pm

hofmann13 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:57 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:56 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:54 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

So what? If they kept him they would finish next to last again at least now they have prospects who may help them win in the future instead of an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat of St. Louis and wasn’t going to help them win now or in the future

Well, if you thought they had a lousy rotation before the trade.
Well, just look at it after the trade.
I don't give a rats a z z about dEwitt's money.

Do you care about years of control?

Yeah sorry, just getting a couple of fringe prospects doesn't get me excited.

Fitts was a FG Top 100 in MLB prospect before he was promoted to the majors last year.

Clarke is a FG Top 100 in MLB prospect right now.

damaged goods might be a better description.

The irony of your screen name against this post just screaming right now...lol

No kidding lol he was probably whining about signing the injured carpenter

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

They were fourth in 25

Does it really matter if they are fourth or last?