Cardinals Trade Grade = B+

[Talkin' Baseball]

The best thing about this trade is it shows the Cardinals are committed to acquiring prospects and not just offloading salary. Gray wouldn't have required a ton of cash to be kicked in if the goal were just a salary dump.

These are the type of long shot prospects that very likely don't move the needle. No one is a former 1st or 2nd round pick, no one is a big threat to become a future AS or 4-6 fWAR SP. Just JAGs and depth and maybe a distant future bullpen arm in Clarke - but you can always find proven plus bullpen arms for less then $20M.

If Clarke were all that, Boston wouldn't have let him go. They traded him for a reason.

I guess you could say that when they trade Donovan. I guess you could say that when they trade Arenado. And so on... You can spin any conversation to have a negative tilt. There are possibilities here. It's done. We'll see how it goes.

[SamTheMan]

Cardinals trade grade

Fitts had just an OK full year for the Sox, with a 5.00 ERA in 10 starts. But he's young and there's potential there, it seems.

Clarke is among the top-five prospects for the Sox, so that's a really good return there.

GRADE: B+


Red Sox trade grade

GRADE: B


-USAToday

What could they have done better to earn an A?

Well i guess the answer to that is let CBS grade the trade.

[Carp4Cy]

The best thing about this trade is it shows the Cardinals are committed to acquiring prospects and not just offloading salary. Gray wouldn't have required a ton of cash to be kicked in if the goal were just a salary dump.

These are the type of long shot prospects that very likely don't move the needle. No one is a former 1st or 2nd round pick, no one is a big threat to become a future AS or 4-6 fWAR SP. Just JAGs and depth and maybe a distant future bullpen arm in Clarke - but you can always find proven plus bullpen arms for less then $20M.

If Clarke were all that, Boston wouldn't have let him go. They traded him for a reason.

I guess you could say that when they trade Donovan. I guess you could say that when they trade Arenado. And so on... You can spin any conversation to have a negative tilt. There are possibilities here. It's done. We'll see how it goes.

No - if Bloom trades a proven AS Donovan for another proven AS caliber player with years of control left at a position we need talent, there's a very high liklihood we get reasonable value back. Prospects are institutionally overvalued. Proven MLB players, with $ contracts attached are much more attainable.

See the Renteria trade in 1998/1999, heck we traded top prospects for proven talent with years of control. I'm not saying to give up a #1 or #2 prospect for another Renteria type, just a proven AS player already in the Majors. And maybe a lower ranked prospect to sweeten the deal if needed.

[Talkin' Baseball]

The best thing about this trade is it shows the Cardinals are committed to acquiring prospects and not just offloading salary. Gray wouldn't have required a ton of cash to be kicked in if the goal were just a salary dump.

These are the type of long shot prospects that very likely don't move the needle. No one is a former 1st or 2nd round pick, no one is a big threat to become a future AS or 4-6 fWAR SP. Just JAGs and depth and maybe a distant future bullpen arm in Clarke - but you can always find proven plus bullpen arms for less then $20M.

If Clarke were all that, Boston wouldn't have let him go. They traded him for a reason.

I guess you could say that when they trade Donovan. I guess you could say that when they trade Arenado. And so on... You can spin any conversation to have a negative tilt. There are possibilities here. It's done. We'll see how it goes.

No - if Bloom trades a proven AS Donovan for another proven AS caliber player with years of control left at a position we need talent, there's a very high liklihood we get reasonable value back. Prospects are institutionally overvalued. Proven MLB players, with $ contracts attached are much more attainable.

See the Renteria trade in 1998/1999, heck we traded top prospects for proven talent with years of control. I'm not saying to give up a #1 or #2 prospect for another Renteria type, just a proven AS player already in the Majors. And maybe a lower ranked prospect to sweeten the deal if needed.

If that is your philosophy, you are doomed to be unhappy.

[mattmitchl44]

If Clarke were all that, Boston wouldn't have let him go. They traded him for a reason.

Teams make evaluation mistakes all the time.

The Mets let Johann Santana go to the Twins in the Rule 5 draft.

Everybody passed on Pujols until the Cardinals draft him in the 13th round.

[Carp4Cy]

If Clarke were all that, Boston wouldn't have let him go. They traded him for a reason.

Teams make evaluation mistakes all the time.

The Mets let Johann Santana go to the Twins in the Rule 5 draft.

Everybody passed on Pujols until the Cardinals draft him in the 13th round.

Do you mean Houston? I'm not sure why a 20 yo was subject to a rule 5, maybe the rules were different back then?

Drafts are different. Yeah everyone missed AP, but he wasn't in anyones system 24/7 yet. When a player is already in your system you have insider info that no one really has in a draft since every scout is proxy to the same opportunity to scout all the same players.

[mattmitchl44]

If Clarke were all that, Boston wouldn't have let him go. They traded him for a reason.

Teams make evaluation mistakes all the time.

The Mets let Johann Santana go to the Twins in the Rule 5 draft.

Everybody passed on Pujols until the Cardinals draft him in the 13th round.

Do you mean Houston? I'm not sure why a 20 yo was subject to a rule 5, maybe the rules were different back then?

No I mean Johan Santana:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_5_draft

[Carp4Cy]

If Clarke were all that, Boston wouldn't have let him go. They traded him for a reason.

Teams make evaluation mistakes all the time.

The Mets let Johann Santana go to the Twins in the Rule 5 draft.

Everybody passed on Pujols until the Cardinals draft him in the 13th round.

Do you mean Houston? I'm not sure why a 20 yo was subject to a rule 5, maybe the rules were different back then?

No I mean Johan Santana:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_5_draft

BBR shows him playing for a HOU affiliate in 1997-1999.

Professional career
Santana was discovered in 1994 by Andres Reiner, who was a scout working for the Houston Astros at the time.[2][3] Santana's parents agreed to let him attend Houston's academy in Valencia. When Astros scouting director Dan O'Brien called Reiner and asked if he had signed Santana to a contract, Reiner reported that he was still deciding if Santana was a better prospect as an outfielder or a pitcher. After six weeks of training, Santana was told he was going to pitch. Santana did not like it and almost left, but Reiner convinced him to stay. While originally a center fielder, Santana was converted to a pitcher at the academy due to his arm speed. In 1999 he was named the Tovar Mérida Athlete of the Year.

Minnesota Twins
After the 1999 major league season, Santana was left unprotected by the Houston Astros and eligible in the Rule 5 draft. The Minnesota Twins had the first pick that year, the Florida Marlins had the second. The Twins made a deal with the Marlins: the Twins would draft Jared Camp with their first pick and the Marlins would draft Santana. The teams would exchange the two players with the Twins receiving $50,000 to cover their pick.[3]

[imetsatchelpaige]

The best thing about this trade is it shows the Cardinals are committed to acquiring prospects and not just offloading salary. Gray wouldn't have required a ton of cash to be kicked in if the goal were just a salary dump.

Indeed.

[rockondlouie]

If Clarke were all that, Boston wouldn't have let him go. They traded him for a reason.

Teams make evaluation mistakes all the time.

The Mets let Johann Santana go to the Twins in the Rule 5 draft.

Everybody passed on Pujols until the Cardinals draft him in the 13th round.

Tigers traded a kid in the minor leagues named J. Smoltz for veteran D. Alexander.

Tigers wanted a veteran to help them in their pennant race, while the Braves received a promising young prospect in Smoltz.

Sound familiar?

[mattmitchl44]

If Clarke were all that, Boston wouldn't have let him go. They traded him for a reason.

Teams make evaluation mistakes all the time.

The Mets let Johann Santana go to the Twins in the Rule 5 draft.

Everybody passed on Pujols until the Cardinals draft him in the 13th round.

Do you mean Houston? I'm not sure why a 20 yo was subject to a rule 5, maybe the rules were different back then?

No I mean Johan Santana:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_5_draft

BBR shows him playing for a HOU affiliate in 1997-1999.

Professional career
Santana was discovered in 1994 by Andres Reiner, who was a scout working for the Houston Astros at the time.[2][3] Santana's parents agreed to let him attend Houston's academy in Valencia. When Astros scouting director Dan O'Brien called Reiner and asked if he had signed Santana to a contract, Reiner reported that he was still deciding if Santana was a better prospect as an outfielder or a pitcher. After six weeks of training, Santana was told he was going to pitch. Santana did not like it and almost left, but Reiner convinced him to stay. While originally a center fielder, Santana was converted to a pitcher at the academy due to his arm speed. In 1999 he was named the Tovar Mérida Athlete of the Year.

Minnesota Twins
After the 1999 major league season, Santana was left unprotected by the Houston Astros and eligible in the Rule 5 draft. The Minnesota Twins had the first pick that year, the Florida Marlins had the second. The Twins made a deal with the Marlins: the Twins would draft Jared Camp with their first pick and the Marlins would draft Santana. The teams would exchange the two players with the Twins receiving $50,000 to cover their pick.[3]

You're right. I guess it was the Astros. I always remembered it being the Mets, and then he's wearing a Mets uni (later in his career I guess) on the Wiki page.

[ScotchMIrish]

Cardinals trade grade

Fitts had just an OK full year for the Sox, with a 5.00 ERA in 10 starts. But he's young and there's potential there, it seems.

Clarke is among the top-five prospects for the Sox, so that's a really good return there.

GRADE: B+


Red Sox trade grade

GRADE: B


-USAToday

I posted a thread before about prospect rankings. Where did the Red Sox rank Clarke? He is high strikeout/high walks. Typical of a late inning reliver but not a starter. If Bloom spends the cash saved on a younger ballplayer with years left on his contract when it's a decent trade but I'd reserve judgement on how good Clarke is unless and until he arrives in St Louis.

[82birds]

uni # 54 available.
who wants it?

[mattmitchl44]

Cardinals trade grade

Fitts had just an OK full year for the Sox, with a 5.00 ERA in 10 starts. But he's young and there's potential there, it seems.

Clarke is among the top-five prospects for the Sox, so that's a really good return there.

GRADE: B+


Red Sox trade grade

GRADE: B


-USAToday

I posted a thread before about prospect rankings. Where did the Red Sox rank Clarke? He is high strikeout/high walks. Typical of a late inning reliver but not a starter. If Bloom spends the cash saved on a younger ballplayer with years left on his contract when it's a decent trade but I'd reserve judgement on how good Clarke is unless and until he arrives in St Louis.

FG gives Clarke the same grade as Quinn Mathews (FV 50).

[AZ_Cardsfan]

For the naysayers all I can say is this. Prospects often do not pan out. Correct. Odds are against either of the guys we got being stars ever. The concept is this - get as many prospects as you can and your odds of catching that lightning in a bottle rises dramatically.

This trade made end up on the trash heap of baseball history. Or 3 years from now Clarke may win the first of several Cy Young awards and headline the STL rotation for years. Boston might be kicking itself. I give the later very low odds but they do exist.

Lets see how it all shakes out including whatever return he gets for Donovan. Which BTW will NOT be a proven major league AS at some other position. Why is it so hard to understand value to teams varies based on situation and current strategy? Do you expect they can trade Donovan for a player as good as him with even more control? Why would another team do that?

[No-Mo-Mo]

Great deal for Boston. For the STL, meh.