rockondlouie wrote: ↑23 Nov 2025 10:17 am
I say "Go Walker" too BDog..................to MEMPHIS!
He needs a full season (or at least a half a season) under C. Bloom & Company's player development system at AAA.
From what I understand he's in Florida and working hard, that's a good sign.
I hear ya. But answer this. If he hits at the ML level like his projections or potential dictates, and they add a left fielder, an already stud infield, does it move the needle.
I say yes, and the dominoes affect is more money to Ace up. Him hitting cheaply is godsend to this rebuild.
IF Walker (and Gorman) can somehow be saved by Bloom etal (we know Oli and his gang can't since they've failed), then the "re-build" would be exponentially accelerated!
That would entail Walker hitting 20 HR's/.750+ OPS and Gorman 30 HR's/.800+ OPS.
3rd Base/Left Field would be solved for years at a very low payroll cost.
Adding JJW, if he does what most think he will do, and you've got the makings of a solid lineup before making any player position moves.
Add a starting pitcher via the Donovan trade + sign a few veteran arms for the pen'.
Toss in Libby taking a step forward to being a #2 and the 2026 team would be cooking.
Of course, JJW aside, this is a lot of wish casting.
I'm a huge Bloom fan but to expect this from him and his player development system is truly unfair.
Walker is totally lost, Gorman not far behind and Libby may never be more than a low end #3.
But it's the offseason so why not?
You did well. And yes this isn’t a hope thread it’s a hypothetical thread. At the point the team is today, if Walker hits then does this team take on a different look. Add Gorman where are we now. That’s two cheap studs, money towards aces.
Sooner or later we gotta hit on a few prospects. It’s our turn.
mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Nov 2025 09:23 am
If Walker and Gorman could get back on track to actually becoming the players the Cardinals at one point thought they would be, it would make a tremendous difference in the immediate future of the team.
If you ask me "how far behind where they need to be in having young, cost controlled players on the ML roster to really compete are they?" I would say the "deficit" would be just about exactly:
1) Walker having not developed into the ~4+ fWAR player you could have easily hoped he would be by this time
2) Gorman having not developed into the ~2-3 fWAR player you could have easily hoped he would be by this time, and
3) To a lesser extent Liberatore having not developed into the ~3 fWAR, borderline #2/#3 SP you could have easily hoped he would be by this time
If those three things were true instead of Walker having been a -1.2 fWAR last year, Gorman having been a -0.2 fWAR last year, and Liberatore being a 1.8 fWAR SP last year, we would be having much, much less of a discussion about any "rebuild."
That about 8, 9, 10 fWAR in young, cost controlled talent is just "missing" and is about what they need to make up with Wetherholt, Doyle, etc.
Bloom firing or relocating the "game planner" and assistant pitching and hitting coaches tells me he thinks the heavy handed approach was part of the problem. Walker was hitting as a rookie until they sent him down to change his swing.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑23 Nov 2025 10:17 am
I say "Go Walker" too BDog..................to MEMPHIS!
He needs a full season (or at least a half a season) under C. Bloom & Company's player development system at AAA.
From what I understand he's in Florida and working hard, that's a good sign.
I hear ya. But answer this. If he hits at the ML level like his projections or potential dictates, and they add a left fielder, an already stud infield, does it move the needle.
I say yes, and the dominoes affect is more money to Ace up. Him hitting cheaply is godsend to this rebuild.
IF Walker (and Gorman) can somehow be saved by Bloom etal (we know Oli and his gang can't since they've failed), then the "re-build" would be exponentially accelerated!
That would entail Walker hitting 20 HR's/.750+ OPS and Gorman 30 HR's/.800+ OPS.
3rd Base/Left Field would be solved for years at a very low payroll cost.
Adding JJW, if he does what most think he will do, and you've got the makings of a solid lineup before making any player position moves.
Add a starting pitcher via the Donovan trade + sign a few veteran arms for the pen'.
Toss in Libby taking a step forward to being a #2 and the 2026 team would be cooking.
Of course, JJW aside, this is a lot of wish casting.
I'm a huge Bloom fan but to expect this from him and his player development system is truly unfair.
Walker is totally lost, Gorman not far behind and Libby may never be more than a low end #3.
But it's the offseason so why not?
You did well. And yes this isn’t a hope thread it’s a hypothetical thread. At the point the team is today, if Walker hits then does this team take on a different look. Add Gorman where are we now. That’s two cheap studs, money towards aces.
Sooner or later we gotta hit on a few prospects. It’s our turn.
Bloom's gang down below are already hard at work w/Walker in Florida, Gorman needs to be there too.
And of course I should've said "rightfield" for Walker, not leftfield.
mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Nov 2025 09:23 am
If Walker and Gorman could get back on track to actually becoming the players the Cardinals at one point thought they would be, it would make a tremendous difference in the immediate future of the team.
If you ask me "how far behind where they need to be in having young, cost controlled players on the ML roster to really compete are they?" I would say the "deficit" would be just about exactly:
1) Walker having not developed into the ~4+ fWAR player you could have easily hoped he would be by this time
2) Gorman having not developed into the ~2-3 fWAR player you could have easily hoped he would be by this time, and
3) To a lesser extent Liberatore having not developed into the ~3 fWAR, borderline #2/#3 SP you could have easily hoped he would be by this time
If those three things were true instead of Walker having been a -1.2 fWAR last year, Gorman having been a -0.2 fWAR last year, and Liberatore being a 1.8 fWAR SP last year, we would be having much, much less of a discussion about any "rebuild."
That about 8, 9, 10 fWAR in young, cost controlled talent is just "missing" and is about what they need to make up with Wetherholt, Doyle, etc.
Add in Donovan and Burly, then you have 5 pretty good players to build around. Probably be a lot less talk of trading Gray, Nado would still need to go to give Gorman 3rd.
mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Nov 2025 09:23 am
If Walker and Gorman could get back on track to actually becoming the players the Cardinals at one point thought they would be, it would make a tremendous difference in the immediate future of the team.
If you ask me "how far behind where they need to be in having young, cost controlled players on the ML roster to really compete are they?" I would say the "deficit" would be just about exactly:
1) Walker having not developed into the ~4+ fWAR player you could have easily hoped he would be by this time
2) Gorman having not developed into the ~2-3 fWAR player you could have easily hoped he would be by this time, and
3) To a lesser extent Liberatore having not developed into the ~3 fWAR, borderline #2/#3 SP you could have easily hoped he would be by this time
If those three things were true instead of Walker having been a -1.2 fWAR last year, Gorman having been a -0.2 fWAR last year, and Liberatore being a 1.8 fWAR SP last year.
That about 8, 9, 10 fWAR in young, cost controlled talent that is just "missing" and that is about what they need to make up with Wetherholt, Doyle, etc.
Superb post and thank you. So if everyone else hits near norms, one major addition a young left fielder, and Walker and Gorman hit near projections, we would not only satisfy the 4 war positions, we would do it dirt cheap, with mucho money left for stud pitching.
If they were to hit.
And I don't want it to sound like we should be excessively blaming just them - Dylan Carlson could have been part of the solution, Nootbaar being better (and healthier) could have been part of the solution, Tink Hence staying healthy and developing could have been part of the solution, Quinn Mathews and Cooper Hjerpe could have been part of the solution, etc.
There have been a lot of other "misses" or "misses to date" that haven't helped either.
Quinn Mathews isn't a "miss". He had a fast rise (1 season through the minors) and then struggled a bit (at times) in a full season of AAA. Let's see what he's learned and how he responds this year. Far from a miss. He may be in the STL sooner rather than later.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑23 Nov 2025 10:17 am
I say "Go Walker" too BDog..................to MEMPHIS!
He needs a full season (or at least a half a season) under C. Bloom & Company's player development system at AAA.
From what I understand he's in Florida and working hard, that's a good sign.
I hear ya. But answer this. If he hits at the ML level like his projections or potential dictates, and they add a left fielder, an already stud infield, does it move the needle.
I say yes, and the dominoes affect is more money to Ace up. Him hitting cheaply is godsend to this rebuild.
IF Walker (and Gorman) can somehow be saved by Bloom etal (we know Oli and his gang can't since they've failed), then the "re-build" would be exponentially accelerated!
That would entail Walker hitting 20 HR's/.750+ OPS and Gorman 30 HR's/.800+ OPS.
3rd Base/Left Field would be solved for years at a very low payroll cost.
Adding JJW, if he does what most think he will do, and you've got the makings of a solid lineup before making any player position moves.
Add a starting pitcher via the Donovan trade + sign a few veteran arms for the pen'.
Toss in Libby taking a step forward to being a #2 and the 2026 team would be cooking.
Of course, JJW aside, this is a lot of wish casting.
I'm a huge Bloom fan but to expect this from him and his player development system is truly unfair.
Walker is totally lost, Gorman not far behind and Libby may never be more than a low end #3.
But it's the offseason so why not?
You did well. And yes this isn’t a hope thread it’s a hypothetical thread. At the point the team is today, if Walker hits then does this team take on a different look. Add Gorman where are we now. That’s two cheap studs, money towards aces.
Sooner or later we gotta hit on a few prospects. It’s our turn.
Sooner or later, love is gonna get ya,
Sooner or later, girl you got to give in
Sooner or later, Love is going to win
rockondlouie wrote: ↑23 Nov 2025 10:17 am
I say "Go Walker" too BDog..................to MEMPHIS!
He needs a full season (or at least a half a season) under C. Bloom & Company's player development system at AAA.
From what I understand he's in Florida and working hard, that's a good sign.
I hear ya. But answer this. If he hits at the ML level like his projections or potential dictates, and they add a left fielder, an already stud infield, does it move the needle.
I say yes, and the dominoes affect is more money to Ace up. Him hitting cheaply is godsend to this rebuild.
IF Walker (and Gorman) can somehow be saved by Bloom etal (we know Oli and his gang can't since they've failed), then the "re-build" would be exponentially accelerated!
That would entail Walker hitting 20 HR's/.750+ OPS and Gorman 30 HR's/.800+ OPS.
3rd Base/Left Field would be solved for years at a very low payroll cost.
Adding JJW, if he does what most think he will do, and you've got the makings of a solid lineup before making any player position moves.
Add a starting pitcher via the Donovan trade + sign a few veteran arms for the pen'.
Toss in Libby taking a step forward to being a #2 and the 2026 team would be cooking.
Of course, JJW aside, this is a lot of wish casting.
I'm a huge Bloom fan but to expect this from him and his player development system is truly unfair.
Walker is totally lost, Gorman not far behind and Libby may never be more than a low end #3.
But it's the offseason so why not?
You did well. And yes this isn’t a hope thread it’s a hypothetical thread. At the point the team is today, if Walker hits then does this team take on a different look. Add Gorman where are we now. That’s two cheap studs, money towards aces.
Sooner or later we gotta hit on a few prospects. It’s our turn.
Sooner or later, love is gonna get ya,
Sooner or later, girl you got to give in
Sooner or later, Love is going to win
Little Grass Roots for you Bulldog
Good one. I like the Grassroots. Here’s one from them- the river is wide. Nice little cut.
Let’s say we do not trade Donovan or Nado. We have a GG caliber infield. Willy will hit, Donovan will hit, Winn will get better, think between Ozzie and Edgar, and Nado will be a .250 spray hitter, 10 hr and 50 rbi from third. That’s the infield.
From a defensive perspective that’s as good an impact nfield as any in baseball. Offensively middle of the pack, say 15 ish.
Scott. Superb fielder. Just think. if he hits .250. Would be the equivalent of doubles city. He can only get better. All eyes are on bloom and Walker, don’t over look a maturing Scott.
Left- new player. If Donovan is traded, I’d think a young stud left fielder would be as valuable as a stud Ace. Combined defensively with Scott stout shut down 75 percent of the outfield.
Walker. Here we go. When he hits, we should see 20 plus homeruns, and 80 ish rbi. This is not MVP numbers, or even AS numbers, but for STL it’s huge. Why. Money.
If Walker hits, we save big money in FA or trade to acquire both a left fielder and right fielder. Having the potential of Walker, his cheapness, wrapped up in house leaves other moneys for the Ace.
Walker is key and essential to a strong rebuild. In both performance and other player moves. Simply because he’s so cheap. You gotta reap this.
So let’s summarize. Superb infield. Best n baseball. Good outfield in CF. Black holes. Left and right. With Walker in house.
I say we go as Walker goes.
What if monkeys fly out of my butt?
Then you'll probably feel better than if they had stayed in your butt.
CardsBest wrote: ↑23 Nov 2025 12:28 pm
Walker will not hit.
I’m as positive a fan as anyone but Walker will not hit. It’s not a mechanical issue. I have no idea if it’s a thinking problem. I would be willing to make a really large bet he can’t hit at the big league level
CardsBest wrote: ↑23 Nov 2025 12:28 pm
Walker will not hit.
I’m as positive a fan as anyone but Walker will not hit. It’s not a mechanical issue. I have no idea if it’s a thinking problem. I would be willing to make a really large bet he can’t hit at the big league level
Well that doesn’t help. Let’s hope. Again hypothetically if he did would the result be noticeable at the team level.
CardsBest wrote: ↑23 Nov 2025 12:28 pm
Walker will not hit.
I’m as positive a fan as anyone but Walker will not hit. It’s not a mechanical issue. I have no idea if it’s a thinking problem. I would be willing to make a really large bet he can’t hit at the big league level
Well that doesn’t help. Let’s hope. Again hypothetically if he did would the result be noticeable at the team level.
"What IF Walker Hits?"
Well, that would be a good thing.
Seems self-evident.
That said, I would prefer that question be answered with another organization - because the odds are not in his favor.
