Did Cardinals rush Walker and Gorman?

[Melville]

Walker rushed.
Gorman badly mismanaged.
Next question please.

Please explain.

In 4 MLB seasons, Gorman has never been allowed to start more than 65 games at any one position, never being given opportunity to establish himself and thrive in any specific role.
The last 2 seasons, he has been shuffled in and out of the batting lineup with no clear plan or rationale.
Even though both seasons the team has publicly committed itself to exactly the opposite.
The team has badly mismanaged and undermined his development - due to stupidity and weakness on the part of Super Slo Mo and The Marmot.
Bottom line: they must give him 600 PA's while playing an assigned defined position - or trade him to a team which will.
What they have done the past 4 years has accomplished nothing and has been a display of gross incompetence on the part of "leaders".
As for Walker, not much explanation is needed.
He was in MLB at age 20, thrown into a position he had played for a month in AA as a means of getting him to STL immediately, and with less than a thousand minor league PA's (none at the AAA level).

Again, we disagree.

Gorman has had 1581 plate appearances, 538 K's and a .218 average. He has been given all kinds of opportunities and failed.

And has been a liability in the field with an ongoing back condition.


Walker has had 1039 plate appearances, 280 K's and a .240 average.

Absolutely we can cordially disagree.
Perfectly acceptable for folks to have differing perspectives.
But I am, of course, 100% correct - as supported by the fully accurate facts I detailed above.

[Melville]

It is certainly possible that they were rushed - if the Cardinals were too intent on trying to win a WS with (for) Arenado, Goldschmidt, etc.

Nope.
Pretty much the opposite is true.
The Cardinals did not rush Gorman and Walker to help PG and N/A win a ring.
Rather, they hung onto Wainwright/Molina/Pujols in the last gasp of their careers, hoping to get them a ring with PG and N/A doing the heavy lifting.
TOXIC CULTURE on full display - and I was the only person on the planet to identify and explain it at the time.
They should have dumped the ME3 - and given PG and N/A a couple of more quality, established, productive players around them instead.
The idea that STL rushed Gorman and Walker thinking that would bring a ring is ludicrous.
The Cardinals have been paying the price for the idiotic ME3 reunion legacy marketing campaign for the past 3 seasons - exactly as I analyzed and predicted at the time.

[peterman'srealitytour]

Underdeveloped for sure given how poor Mo's minor league player (un)-development system was prior to C. Bloom's hiring.

Exactly. When the Brewers have 17 minor league instructors vs Cardinals 5, is it any wonder these guys have struggled?

[sikeston bulldog2]

It is certainly possible that they were rushed - if the Cardinals were too intent on trying to win a WS with (for) Arenado, Goldschmidt, etc.

Nope.
Pretty much the opposite is true.
The Cardinals did not rush Gorman and Walker to help PG and N/A win a ring.
Rather, they hung onto Wainwright/Molina/Pujols in the last gasp of their careers, hoping to get them a ring with PG and N/A doing the heavy lifting.
TOXIC CULTURE on full display - and I was the only person on the planet to identify and explain it at the time.
They should have dumped the ME3 - and given PG and N/A a couple of more quality, established, productive players around them instead.
The idea that STL rushed Gorman and Walker thinking that would bring a ring is ludicrous.
The Cardinals have been paying the price for the idiotic ME3 reunion legacy marketing campaign for the past 3 seasons - exactly as I analyzed and predicted at the time.

I’d agree it had marketing written all over it. But Pujols did well. It would have been more expensive to replace his performance with a younger stud. Although a younger stud would still be here.

[rockondlouie]

Underdeveloped for sure given how poor Mo's minor league player (un)-development system was prior to C. Bloom's hiring.

Exactly. When the Brewers have 17 minor league instructors vs Cardinals 5, is it any wonder these guys have struggled?

Amazes me to this day how far behind Mo's minor league system fell, he treated it like a redheaded stepchild.

[ICCFIM2]

Of course they were rushed. Walker skipping AAA entirely was an enormous mistake. I see people arguing against that on this thread, but missing an entire level by definition is being rushed. Gorman had a full year in AAA, if you consider the promotion in 2021 to Memphis plus starting the year in 2022 in Memphis. His problem was that in 2022 while he was hitting in Memphis, his K rate was climbing. That should have been a red flag he needed more time. But at least with Gorman he played an appropriate amount of time at each level.

I look at all these types of players the same way, if their batting eye improves, they will be successful. If not, they will wash out. Paul Dejong is a prime example. There were years where he had the highest swing rate at pitches outside the zone and the lowest contact rate. One year he had a 0.000 average on pitches outside the zone. How much clearer can it be to not swing at those pitches. Same with these two.

[CardsBest]

No they just both suck.

[peterman'srealitytour]

Underdeveloped for sure given how poor Mo's minor league player (un)-development system was prior to C. Bloom's hiring.

Exactly. When the Brewers have 17 minor league instructors vs Cardinals 5, is it any wonder these guys have struggled?

Amazes me to this day how far behind Mo's minor league system fell, he treated it like a redheaded stepchild.

This from an organization that celebrated the Cardinal Way. You know “we draft, develop and instruct to play the game the right way.” Massive hypocrisy.

[OldRed]

Walker rushed.
Gorman badly mismanaged.
Next question please.

Please explain.

In 4 MLB seasons, Gorman has never been allowed to start more than 65 games at any one position, never being given opportunity to establish himself and thrive in any specific role.
The last 2 seasons, he has been shuffled in and out of the batting lineup with no clear plan or rationale.
Even though both seasons the team has publicly committed itself to exactly the opposite.
The team has badly mismanaged and undermined his development - due to stupidity and weakness on the part of Super Slo Mo and The Marmot.
Bottom line: they must give him 600 PA's while playing an assigned defined position - or trade him to a team which will.
What they have done the past 4 years has accomplished nothing and has been a display of gross incompetence on the part of "leaders".
As for Walker, not much explanation is needed.
He was in MLB at age 20, thrown into a position he had played for a month in AA as a means of getting him to STL immediately, and with less than a thousand minor league PA's (none at the AAA level).

Again, we disagree.

Gorman has had 1581 plate appearances, 538 K's and a .218 average. He has been given all kinds of opportunities and failed.

And has been a liability in the field with an ongoing back condition.


Walker has had 1039 plate appearances, 280 K's and a .240 average.

Absolutely we can cordially disagree.
Perfectly acceptable for folks to have differing perspectives.
But I am, of course, 100% correct - as supported by the fully accurate facts I detailed above.

Yes, we can. And you are 100% WRONG about Gorman, as by the fully accurate facts I detailed above.

[rockondlouie]

Underdeveloped for sure given how poor Mo's minor league player (un)-development system was prior to C. Bloom's hiring.

Exactly. When the Brewers have 17 minor league instructors vs Cardinals 5, is it any wonder these guys have struggled?

Amazes me to this day how far behind Mo's minor league system fell, he treated it like a redheaded stepchild.

This from an organization that celebrated the Cardinal Way. You know “we draft, develop and instruct to play the game the right way.” Massive hypocrisy.

And the franchise that CREATED the minor league system (B. Rickey)!

Mo s u c k e d for years, Dewitt now paying the price for not firing him years ago.

[Goldfan]

The league figured them out and they haven’t adjusted…..

[Cardinals4Life]

Key to that question if you believe it is true is a follow-up question. How do you rectify that mistake?

For instance, could you fill in the major league roster for 2026 with one-year veteran contracts and have Walker and Gorman spend the year in AAA Memphis under very specific coaching? Probably not, which means they have to receive whatever coaching it takes to get things right at the major league level.

Can a player truly develop in the major leagues when seemingly overwhelmed by major league pitching?

Are there any examples?

I asked Grok:

Here are several well-documented examples of players who posted elite numbers in Triple-A, came up to MLB, struggled badly (often for 2–5 years), but eventually turned into All-Star or near-All-Star caliber major leaguers:
Paul Goldschmidt
2011: .340/.490/.696, 35 HR (AA/AAA combined)
2011–2013: .267 AVG, 95 OPS+ (league-average at best for a 1B)
~2.5 seasons
Turned into perennial MVP candidate (2013 breakout, multiple top-3 MVP finishes)

José Ramírez
2013–2015 AAA: .292/.354/.442
2013–2015 MLB: .233/.291/.353, 71 OPS+, sent down multiple times
2–3 seasons
Became one of the best all-around 3B in baseball (multiple 30-30 seasons, MVP votes every year 2017–2023)

Aaron Judge
2016 AAA: .270/.366/.489, but only 51 games because of injuries
2016 debut: solid; 2017: elite power but .179 AVG in 2nd half + injuries
Effectively 2017–2018 growing pains
2017 ROY, 2019–2022 MVP-level (62 HR in 2022) – the early K rate and injuries made people question if he’d ever stay healthy/consistent

These are probably the cleanest examples of the archetype you’re looking for: guys who looked like they might never figure out big-league pitching (or stay healthy), got labeled “AAAA players” or busts at various points, but eventually put it all together and became stars.

Opti

Yes, of course they were rushed.
Why?

Mozeliak badly wanted to produce a young superstar (like so many around the league were producing) that he blindly rushed them to the bigs without proper development. This would help take the heat off of him for the downward spiral he was driving the organization down and off of the terrible contracts he kept handing out (Carpenter, Waino, Fowler, Leave, Molina, Mikolas, DeJong, etc.).

The Cards have mismanaged/ruined so many young assets.
(Gorman, Walker, Z. Thompson, Hicks, Reyes, Liberatore off the top of my head.)

[cardstatman]

Both players were rushed.

Did it hurt the players? No. They can develop in either AAA or MLB.

Did it hurt the team? Absolutely! Stop being stupid; run the team to win games with finished players not develop unfinished players.