To all of you idiots that want to trade Winn

[scoutyjones2]

Well, I don't want to trade Winn so I'm therefore not an idiot. I wish someone would tell my ex-wife.

She just laughs when I tell her

[scoutyjones2]

Thank GOODNESS you arent in charge of anything important, a young GG shortstop with strong bat potential doesn’t grow on trees, especially one with a solid work ethic who WILL get better. And trading him creates a huge hole at 2nd or 3rd if JJ has to do SS.

Even Moe was smart enough to know not to trade Winn, wow

Strong bat potential?

[scoutyjones2]

For the right deal I would trade anyone on this team in a heartbeat. Including Winn.

Then you’d get a stud and have a pitchers nightmare. Some positions when adequately filled are non negotiable. The return could never justify the vacancy.

This is one.

Sure it would. You can find a JJ Wetherholt to replace him...get more WAR out of the position

[scoutyjones2]

For the right deal I would trade anyone on this team in a heartbeat. Including Winn.

Then you’d get a stud and have a pitchers nightmare. Some positions when adequately filled are non negotiable. The return could never justify the vacancy.

This is one.

I see your point but I think we could adequately cover the SS position. Frankly I would rather have a slugger in the outfield than a GG shortstop. But that’s just me.

GG shortstops are much more difficult to find than a slugging outfielder.

Why not a balance? An above league average defensive SS with some non below league average hitting? And can steal bases?

When is the last time a team won a WS with their SS being a GG?

[ramfandan]

Well, I don't want to trade Winn so I'm therefore not an idiot. I wish someone would tell my ex-wife.

She just laughs when I tell her

I would be happy to call your ex-wife to tell her you are not an idiot .. she must have been stupid to leave you .. what's her number
( 911) IM2- DUMB ?

[OldRed]

For the right deal I would trade anyone on this team in a heartbeat. Including Winn.

Then you’d get a stud and have a pitchers nightmare. Some positions when adequately filled are non negotiable. The return could never justify the vacancy.

This is one.

Sure it would. You can find a JJ Wetherholt to replace him...get more WAR out of the position

Just dumb!! Name the last starting ACE traded. The SS position is very difficult to replace. Just dumb to think they would trade their only true position player who just won a GG.

[scoutyjones2]

There is no such thing as untouchable. If PIT offered Skenes straight across do you think STL says no?

Having said that I would not be actively marketing Winn. A team would need to come to me and wow me.

You point is a hypothetical that would never happen. The old rule of thumb is you never trade an everyday star player for a pitcher who risks of being injured are always present.

You just can't consider trading the most valuable player on the team when he is young and the team is a rebuilding era. Anyone else I have no problem, but not Winn.

2.2 WAR is the Cards most valuable? Lol..
Not even

I guess VS2 is just as valuable then

WillyCon, Hurdy, Ivan and VS2 all have the same or better WAR

[scoutyjones2]

For the right deal I would trade anyone on this team in a heartbeat. Including Winn.

Then you’d get a stud and have a pitchers nightmare. Some positions when adequately filled are non negotiable. The return could never justify the vacancy.

This is one.

Sure it would. You can find a JJ Wetherholt to replace him...get more WAR out of the position

Just dumb!! Name the last starting ACE traded. The SS position is very difficult to replace. Just dumb to think they would trade their only true position player who just won a GG.

I never claimed that...the league is filled with talented SS. 2.2 WAR isn't irreplaceable and not even the best on the Cards. Hell VS2 has that in WAR. He must be invaluable

[OldRed]

For the right deal I would trade anyone on this team in a heartbeat. Including Winn.

Then you’d get a stud and have a pitchers nightmare. Some positions when adequately filled are non negotiable. The return could never justify the vacancy.

This is one.

Sure it would. You can find a JJ Wetherholt to replace him...get more WAR out of the position

Just dumb!! Name the last starting ACE traded. The SS position is very difficult to replace. Just dumb to think they would trade their only true position player who just won a GG.

I never claimed that...the league is filled with talented SS. 2.2 WAR isn't irreplaceable and not even the best on the Cards. Hell VS2 has that in WAR. He must be invaluable

How many only had three errors and won a GG?

[scoutyjones2]

For the right deal I would trade anyone on this team in a heartbeat. Including Winn.

Then you’d get a stud and have a pitchers nightmare. Some positions when adequately filled are non negotiable. The return could never justify the vacancy.

This is one.

Sure it would. You can find a JJ Wetherholt to replace him...get more WAR out of the position

Just dumb!! Name the last starting ACE traded. The SS position is very difficult to replace. Just dumb to think they would trade their only true position player who just won a GG.

I never claimed that...the league is filled with talented SS. 2.2 WAR isn't irreplaceable and not even the best on the Cards. Hell VS2 has that in WAR. He must be invaluable

How many only had three errors and won a GG?

Great. 2.2 WAR. Guess how many had more WAR? 23 SS's were more valuable and weren't 1 tool players

[OldRed]

For the right deal I would trade anyone on this team in a heartbeat. Including Winn.

Then you’d get a stud and have a pitchers nightmare. Some positions when adequately filled are non negotiable. The return could never justify the vacancy.

This is one.

Sure it would. You can find a JJ Wetherholt to replace him...get more WAR out of the position

Just dumb!! Name the last starting ACE traded. The SS position is very difficult to replace. Just dumb to think they would trade their only true position player who just won a GG.

I never claimed that...the league is filled with talented SS. 2.2 WAR isn't irreplaceable and not even the best on the Cards. Hell VS2 has that in WAR. He must be invaluable

How many only had three errors and won a GG?

Great. 2.2 WAR. Guess how many had more WAR? 23 SS's were more valuable and weren't 1 tool players

There is no one way to determine WAR. There are hundreds of steps to make this calculation, and dozens of places where reasonable people can disagree on the best way to implement a particular part of the framework.

[CorneliusWolfe]

I generally agree with the keep-Winn crowd, but the team needs to commit to him long-term if he’s a keeper in their eyes.

He’ll be due a significant salary increase after this season, especially if he shows improved offense, which will decrease his incentive to sign a more team-friendly extension.

No sense in paying him higher arb rate in a 3-4 year rebuild essentially wasting away his time here. The rebuild could conclude as early as 1-2 years if ownership would spend but it’s obvious they’re committed to going the cheap prospect route.

[scoutyjones2]

For the right deal I would trade anyone on this team in a heartbeat. Including Winn.

Then you’d get a stud and have a pitchers nightmare. Some positions when adequately filled are non negotiable. The return could never justify the vacancy.

This is one.

Sure it would. You can find a JJ Wetherholt to replace him...get more WAR out of the position

Just dumb!! Name the last starting ACE traded. The SS position is very difficult to replace. Just dumb to think they would trade their only true position player who just won a GG.

I never claimed that...the league is filled with talented SS. 2.2 WAR isn't irreplaceable and not even the best on the Cards. Hell VS2 has that in WAR. He must be invaluable

How many only had three errors and won a GG?

Great. 2.2 WAR. Guess how many had more WAR? 23 SS's were more valuable and weren't 1 tool players

There is no one way to determine WAR. There are hundreds of steps to make this calculation, and dozens of places where reasonable people can disagree on the best way to implement a particular part of the framework.

Either way you want to dispell WAR, he's not elite, overall as a SS. One tool player...for now.

Funny how a GG means something for you when it's been given out, many times, based on popularity or players who didn't deserve it

[Bomber1]

Yea, of course you have to listen if you're just getting blown away with offers. Especially since middle infield appears to be a strength on this team. It becomes less of a strength without Winn now and in the future, but if you're getting blown out of the water with an offer, sure, you gotta do it. I just don't think it's realistic that some team is going to do that.

Now, if you're trying to lock Winn up in a long-term deal and it's not looking like he's going to go for it, and you're going to have to spend a ton more than you're comfortable to retain him, then I'm much more willing to the trade route. But I don't see any reason to do that at this time.

Good take.

[Bomber1]

For the right deal I would trade anyone on this team in a heartbeat. Including Winn.

Then you’d get a stud and have a pitchers nightmare. Some positions when adequately filled are non negotiable. The return could never justify the vacancy.

This is one.

Sure it would. You can find a JJ Wetherholt to replace him...get more WAR out of the position

Just dumb!! Name the last starting ACE traded. The SS position is very difficult to replace. Just dumb to think they would trade their only true position player who just won a GG.

I never claimed that...the league is filled with talented SS. 2.2 WAR isn't irreplaceable and not even the best on the Cards. Hell VS2 has that in WAR. He must be invaluable

I think Winn can improve that WAR significantly. He had a knee injury.
He doesn’t make any money yet either.
Unless blown away I would keep him for now.

[renostl]

For the right deal I would trade anyone on this team in a heartbeat. Including Winn.

Then you’d get a stud and have a pitchers nightmare. Some positions when adequately filled are non negotiable. The return could never justify the vacancy.

This is one.

Sure it would. You can find a JJ Wetherholt to replace him...get more WAR out of the position

Just dumb!! Name the last starting ACE traded. The SS position is very difficult to replace. Just dumb to think they would trade their only true position player who just won a GG.

I never claimed that...the league is filled with talented SS. 2.2 WAR isn't irreplaceable and not even the best on the Cards. Hell VS2 has that in WAR. He must be invaluable

How many only had three errors and won a GG?

Great. 2.2 WAR. Guess how many had more WAR? 23 SS's were more valuable and weren't 1 tool players

There is no one way to determine WAR. There are hundreds of steps to make this calculation, and dozens of places where reasonable people can disagree on the best way to implement a particular part of the framework.

Either way you want to dispell WAR, he's not elite, overall as a SS. One tool player...for now.

Funny how a GG means something for you when it's been given out, many times, based on popularity or players who didn't deserve it

I have more concerns over his abilities to stay healthy than his ability
to be at least an average batter. Rarely do I see this when ironically it gets brought
up quickly on other players. MLB SS is not for the weak.

SS is the pinnacle position for a glove. They get to far more baseball that they can make a difference
on. A RF who cares, comparatively, a couple balls a week where good matters over average.
A GG in RF means less, a GG at SS means that you are in the conversation as being among the best
not that you are or aren't an objective best. Shouldn't be dismissed anymore that being an absolute measure.

SS is also a position that can often be moved. IF Winn blocks a better bat, move the other bat. The Cards can easily
move JJ to 2B/3B/OF they have plenty of positions and will just need one more filled if Winn
were moved. True everyone is moveable and Winn likely will get to his time, I just think
it's further down the road. Winn could be 90-120 OPS+ bat, JMO.