Goold Pitcher News

[Strummer Jones]

“The #Cardinals are shopping for at least a starter.
The #stlcards are also entertaining offers for their best starter.

What gives?

Chaim Bloom had a lot to say today ...”

Goold indicating that Gray is being shopped while Bloom in market for another SP??
If looking to dump Gray’s contract why even bother with another FA SP?

Just a guess, because the free agent type starting pitchers Bloom is looking at are NOT in the $25-$35M range like Gray currently .
Even with paying off a good amount on the Gray contract and getting a lower price starter , Bloom can also end up with a pitchr much younger than Sonny that he can either A. flip for prospect later or B. Have a younger starter for the long term. Gray's days are numbered and Bloom looking to the long term .

Who is mid range FA SP that will be appreciably better than internal options?

Most of them.

Liberatore is fine, but he's also coming off a career high in innings.

Pallante...just about anybody is better than Pallante and I say that as someone who was high on him prior to this past season. Also pitched a career high amount of innings.

McGreevy's a fine pitcher, but there's no one thing that he does particularly well. Isn't a high-K guy. He's a pitchability guy. Doesn't have one pitch that locks guys down, instead has a lot of above average pitches, but none that are comfortably good/great. I reckon he takes Mikolas' place in the rotation, except I expect him to be better. I still don't expect him to be the anchor of the rotation. Probably at his best, a good #3. That's not a knock on him, but I think he's more or less reached his ceiling. He's pitched 170+ innings the last two years, so I expect he'll be around that number again.

And then...Kyle Leahy? I like him, but he hasn't pitched over 100 innings since 2022. And again, I kinda see him as another McGreevy. Good pitchability guy, but I don't see him stepping up and being a horse. Quinn Mathews? He took a big step back last year, and that clock is ticking. Doyle isn't ready yet. And I don't see anyone else quite ready to step up, either through injury or still having something to prove in Memphis/Springfield.

I'm not going to kid myself into thinking we'll be jockeying for Cease, or Valez or the top guys there. But bringing in a Zack Littel/Zach Eflin or an upside play like Tyler Mahle, Griffin Canning (was pitching pretty well before he got hurt), Dustin May, Buehler, Giolito makes some sense. They've all got flaws, but that's the reality of the waters we're probably going to be swimming in. We aren't likely going to get an ace level guy.

I'd also keep an eye on guys that Bloom/Cerfolio/Pierpont might have a history with. Either way, this team needs pitchers with or without Sonny.

[Cardinals4Life]

“The #Cardinals are shopping for at least a starter.
The #stlcards are also entertaining offers for their best starter.

What gives?

Chaim Bloom had a lot to say today ...”

Goold indicating that Gray is being shopped while Bloom in market for another SP??
If looking to dump Gray’s contract why even bother with another FA SP?

It’s not hard to figure out if he’s able to dump gray and a significant portion of his salary he will be able to starter a replacement starter and maybe a platoon outfielder or sign another starter and a couple of relievers with that money. In other words it would be a smart move so he can make multiple moves

I understand what you are saying, but how low is our payroll already?? For the Cards to pretend they have to free up salary to have money to sign others is ludicrous!!!

[CCard]

“The #Cardinals are shopping for at least a starter.
The #stlcards are also entertaining offers for their best starter.

What gives?

Chaim Bloom had a lot to say today ...”

Goold indicating that Gray is being shopped while Bloom in market for another SP??
If looking to dump Gray’s contract why even bother with another FA SP?

Isn’t it extremely obvious? Even if they can’t trade Gray, they’re going to need innings in the rotation.

Gray
Liberatore
McGreevy
Pallante
Leahy/Mathews/Graceffo/Hence/Roby

That’s already a pretty thin rotation. Take Gray out and now what do you have? Gray is also one of their best trade pieces. If they weren’t in a rebuild they’d keep him. As it stands now, with one more year left on his deal, why keep him?

Pretty average to bad.

[CCard]

Surely they can do better than Pallante. Ugh

[Ozziesfan41]

“The #Cardinals are shopping for at least a starter.
The #stlcards are also entertaining offers for their best starter.

What gives?

Chaim Bloom had a lot to say today ...”

Goold indicating that Gray is being shopped while Bloom in market for another SP??
If looking to dump Gray’s contract why even bother with another FA SP?

It’s not hard to figure out if he’s able to dump gray and a significant portion of his salary he will be able to starter a replacement starter and maybe a platoon outfielder or sign another starter and a couple of relievers with that money. In other words it would be a smart move so he can make multiple moves

I understand what you are saying, but how low is our payroll already?? For the Cards to pretend they have to free up salary to have money to sign others is ludicrous!!!

Well Dewitt did say they didn’t know how much payroll they were going to have and I read several reports that what they spend will be dependent on how much payroll they are able to spend which is probably true if bloom is trying to dump gray and sign a starter. If he trades gray he could make multiple moves with that money. Just because it’s ludicrous doesn’t mean it’s not true when all signs point to it

[Ozziesfan41]

I get the trade Gray part….what is confusing is the sign a FA to a multi year contract part.
You obviously list more than 5 without Gray.

Here's the article: https://www.stltoday.com/sports/profess ... -top-story

I think it's a bit more nuanced than "they want to sign a FA pitcher for a multi-year deal." The article covers a bunch of different scenarios, like if they end up keeping Gray, if they could get a younger pitcher who might be a part of the future in a trade, signing a reclamation project to a one year deal, do they just sign a guy for innings. Signing a FA to a long-term deal is just one part of the article.

But there are scenarios in which it would make sense to sign a guy to a multi-year deal if the opportunity presents itself. A long-term deal, it seems to me is a longshot this year, but if the opportunity is there, and it makes sense, you have to plan for that. A multi-year deal can also just be a 2 year deal, which would make sense for also 2027, when you're still probably going to have some young starters in the rotation and will need innings.

And yea, I am listing a bunch of options, but it would still be an incredibly thin rotation. Just because you have five guys, it doesn't mean they are guaranteed to be there all year. I wouldn't count on Hence or Roby. Would you? Kyle Leahy could flop. It would be nice if Mathews came up this year, but he'd still be a guy who only pitched 99 innings last year.

Even if Leahy is great, he will hit an innings wall sometime after the All-Star break.

You are correct. Same as liebratore did

[BrockFloodMaris]

“The #Cardinals are shopping for at least a starter.
The #stlcards are also entertaining offers for their best starter.

What gives?

Chaim Bloom had a lot to say today ...”

Goold indicating that Gray is being shopped while Bloom in market for another SP??
If looking to dump Gray’s contract why even bother with another FA SP?

It’s not hard to figure out if he’s able to dump gray and a significant portion of his salary he will be able to starter a replacement starter and maybe a platoon outfielder or sign another starter and a couple of relievers with that money. In other words it would be a smart move so he can make multiple moves

I understand what you are saying, but how low is our payroll already?? For the Cards to pretend they have to free up salary to have money to sign others is ludicrous!!!

Well Dewitt did say they didn’t know how much payroll they were going to have and I read several reports that what they spend will be dependent on how much payroll they are able to spend which is probably true if bloom is trying to dump gray and sign a starter. If he trades gray he could make multiple moves with that money. Just because it’s ludicrous doesn’t mean it’s not true when all signs point to it

In his interview with Frank Cusumano the other day, Bloom said he expects the 2026 payroll to be similar to 2025.

[Hoosier59]

To me it’s just sickening the way that the DeWitts won’t go that little extra to put a winning team on the field. I understand that Mo misspent a lot of their money and has put them in a hole, but where is all the dry powder we heard was there for years. None of it was ever spent! None! We always hear that there is money available for the right deal, but that deal never materializes!
I won’t say nobody, because there are always a few who want the Cardinals to spend stupid money, but very few Cardinal fans expect ownership to spend like the Dodgers, Mets and others. However, to spend like the Pirates, Rays, Reds, and teams like them is a slap in the true Cardinals fans’ faces. The Cardinals should be able to outspend those teams as well as the Brewers, and field a highly competitive team! Hopefully Bloom will make better decisions than Mo did and spend the DeWitts money more wisely, so they’ll be apt to let go of more of it! I want my Grandkids to experience what it’s like to watch the Cardinals in the playoffs and World Series, and be excited about the team, the way I use to be!

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Pretty average to bad.

That’s exactly my point. And even if you don’t trade Gray, you’re probably going to need to bring in a pitcher or two that can give you innings. Even if Liberatore, McGreevy, Pallante, and Leahy are good.

But in a rebuild year, you see what your young players can do for the future.

[Ozziesfan41]

“The #Cardinals are shopping for at least a starter.
The #stlcards are also entertaining offers for their best starter.

What gives?

Chaim Bloom had a lot to say today ...”

Goold indicating that Gray is being shopped while Bloom in market for another SP??
If looking to dump Gray’s contract why even bother with another FA SP?

It’s not hard to figure out if he’s able to dump gray and a significant portion of his salary he will be able to starter a replacement starter and maybe a platoon outfielder or sign another starter and a couple of relievers with that money. In other words it would be a smart move so he can make multiple moves

I understand what you are saying, but how low is our payroll already?? For the Cards to pretend they have to free up salary to have money to sign others is ludicrous!!!

Well Dewitt did say they didn’t know how much payroll they were going to have and I read several reports that what they spend will be dependent on how much payroll they are able to spend which is probably true if bloom is trying to dump gray and sign a starter. If he trades gray he could make multiple moves with that money. Just because it’s ludicrous doesn’t mean it’s not true when all signs point to it

In his interview with Frank Cusumano the other day, Bloom said he expects the 2026 payroll to be similar to 2025.

Oh well that kind of proves it then thanks he definitely needs to shed some of those contracts in order to have money to make multiple moves to improve the team

[renostl]

“The #Cardinals are shopping for at least a starter.
The #stlcards are also entertaining offers for their best starter.

What gives?

Chaim Bloom had a lot to say today ...”

Goold indicating that Gray is being shopped while Bloom in market for another SP??
If looking to dump Gray’s contract why even bother with another FA SP?

Just a guess, because the free agent type starting pitchers Bloom is looking at are NOT in the $25-$35M range like Gray currently .
Even with paying off a good amount on the Gray contract and getting a lower price starter , Bloom can also end up with a pitchr much younger than Sonny that he can either A. flip for prospect later or B. Have a younger starter for the long term. Gray's days are numbered and Bloom looking to the long term .

Who is mid range FA SP that will be appreciably better than internal options?

Most of them.

Liberatore is fine, but he's also coming off a career high in innings.

Pallante...just about anybody is better than Pallante and I say that as someone who was high on him prior to this past season. Also pitched a career high amount of innings.

McGreevy's a fine pitcher, but there's no one thing that he does particularly well. Isn't a high-K guy. He's a pitchability guy. Doesn't have one pitch that locks guys down, instead has a lot of above average pitches, but none that are comfortably good/great. I reckon he takes Mikolas' place in the rotation, except I expect him to be better. I still don't expect him to be the anchor of the rotation. Probably at his best, a good #3. That's not a knock on him, but I think he's more or less reached his ceiling. He's pitched 170+ innings the last two years, so I expect he'll be around that number again.

And then...Kyle Leahy? I like him, but he hasn't pitched over 100 innings since 2022. And again, I kinda see him as another McGreevy. Good pitchability guy, but I don't see him stepping up and being a horse. Quinn Mathews? He took a big step back last year, and that clock is ticking. Doyle isn't ready yet. And I don't see anyone else quite ready to step up, either through injury or still having something to prove in Memphis/Springfield.

I'm not going to kid myself into thinking we'll be jockeying for Cease, or Valez or the top guys there. But bringing in a Zack Littel/Zach Eflin or an upside play like Tyler Mahle, Griffin Canning (was pitching pretty well before he got hurt), Dustin May, Buehler, Giolito makes some sense. They've all got flaws, but that's the reality of the waters we're probably going to be swimming in. We aren't likely going to get an ace level guy.

I'd also keep an eye on guys that Bloom/Cerfolio/Pierpont might have a history with. Either way, this team needs pitchers with or without Sonny.

I'll leave open the possibility of getting a higher-level pitcher for all the reasons
that you pointed out. The need will go beyond 2026.

To me the Cardinals may or may not be attempting to decrease payroll in 2026 by dealing SG.
Even with Gray what they are spending on their pitching is low. I often see $35 million
for Gray, it's $40 if he leaves, more IF he were to be picked up for 2027.

SG has issues that aren't his fault. He is on a one-year contract. He is of the age that you
don't extend him. He can be an upgrade as a rental in a rotation, so he has value if the
back loading of his contract is bought.

So get some kind of a return for SG if possible and attempt to find a pitcher or 3 that goes beyond 2026.
In the market and through trades.

[renostl]

“The #Cardinals are shopping for at least a starter.
The #stlcards are also entertaining offers for their best starter.

What gives?

Chaim Bloom had a lot to say today ...”

Goold indicating that Gray is being shopped while Bloom in market for another SP??
If looking to dump Gray’s contract why even bother with another FA SP?

It’s not hard to figure out if he’s able to dump gray and a significant portion of his salary he will be able to starter a replacement starter and maybe a platoon outfielder or sign another starter and a couple of relievers with that money. In other words it would be a smart move so he can make multiple moves

I understand what you are saying, but how low is our payroll already?? For the Cards to pretend they have to free up salary to have money to sign others is ludicrous!!!

Well Dewitt did say they didn’t know how much payroll they were going to have and I read several reports that what they spend will be dependent on how much payroll they are able to spend which is probably true if bloom is trying to dump gray and sign a starter. If he trades gray he could make multiple moves with that money. Just because it’s ludicrous doesn’t mean it’s not true when all signs point to it

In his interview with Frank Cusumano the other day, Bloom said he expects the 2026 payroll to be similar to 2025.

Oh well that kind of proves it then thanks he definitely needs to shed some of those contracts in order to have money to make multiple moves to improve the team

This has been my position.

Don't they need to spend to be near 2025?
Matz, Miles, Fedde, Hels, Maton and any portions of NA or SG that would be realized?

[Cardinals4Life]

“The #Cardinals are shopping for at least a starter.
The #stlcards are also entertaining offers for their best starter.

What gives?

Chaim Bloom had a lot to say today ...”

Goold indicating that Gray is being shopped while Bloom in market for another SP??
If looking to dump Gray’s contract why even bother with another FA SP?

It’s not hard to figure out if he’s able to dump gray and a significant portion of his salary he will be able to starter a replacement starter and maybe a platoon outfielder or sign another starter and a couple of relievers with that money. In other words it would be a smart move so he can make multiple moves

I understand what you are saying, but how low is our payroll already?? For the Cards to pretend they have to free up salary to have money to sign others is ludicrous!!!

Well Dewitt did say they didn’t know how much payroll they were going to have and I read several reports that what they spend will be dependent on how much payroll they are able to spend which is probably true if bloom is trying to dump gray and sign a starter. If he trades gray he could make multiple moves with that money. Just because it’s ludicrous doesn’t mean it’s not true when all signs point to it

No, I get it. I totally believe that's how they're going to operate. I also believe it is totally ludicrous.

[C-Unit]

“The #Cardinals are shopping for at least a starter.
The #stlcards are also entertaining offers for their best starter.

What gives?

Chaim Bloom had a lot to say today ...”

Goold indicating that Gray is being shopped while Bloom in market for another SP??
If looking to dump Gray’s contract why even bother with another FA SP?

Because Gray's salary for next season is $35 MM. Their target for a new SP will be a pitcher with a much lower price. Obviously.

Why even bother…..everyone says its a throwaway year…..fill from within….another Lynn/Gibson year can be had via AAA or BP

They will be looking for someone like Matthew Boyd, who signed with the cubs last year for a two year deal for less money than Gray will make in '26.

When you go cheap and want to win you have to roll the dice a bit (Woodruff, Bauer, Carp, etc).

That seems to be their approach for '26. The cubs rolled the dice and got solid performance from Boyd and Carson Kelly, who both had career years after years of injury and suckage.

Walker Buehler is another name I've heard that makes sense.

They need to get value for Gray. They also need to cover innings for 2026. Bonus if they bring in a SP that they like enough that they decide to keep around after.

[Cardinals4Life]

To me it’s just sickening the way that the DeWitts won’t go that little extra to put a winning team on the field. I understand that Mo misspent a lot of their money and has put them in a hole, but where is all the dry powder we heard was there for years. None of it was ever spent! None! We always hear that there is money available for the right deal, but that deal never materializes!
I won’t say nobody, because there are always a few who want the Cardinals to spend stupid money, but very few Cardinal fans expect ownership to spend like the Dodgers, Mets and others. However, to spend like the Pirates, Rays, Reds, and teams like them is a slap in the true Cardinals fans’ faces. The Cardinals should be able to outspend those teams as well as the Brewers, and field a highly competitive team! Hopefully Bloom will make better decisions than Mo did and spend the DeWitts money more wisely, so they’ll be apt to let go of more of it! I want my Grandkids to experience what it’s like to watch the Cardinals in the playoffs and World Series, and be excited about the team, the way I use to be!

Well said.

What's sad is that is the narrative they are pushing - don't have money to spend - and a lot of people (including many on here) just accept that as fact. It's ridiculous for the ST. LOUIS CARDINALS to have a payroll this low and act like they HAVE to shed Sonny Gray just to have enough money to spend a little.

Absolutely ZERO reason payroll cannot be $180 M (honestly should be closer to 200M). I mean we aren't in 2015 anymore. Get real!!!

[Talkin' Baseball]

To me it’s just sickening the way that the DeWitts won’t go that little extra to put a winning team on the field. I understand that Mo misspent a lot of their money and has put them in a hole, but where is all the dry powder we heard was there for years. None of it was ever spent! None! We always hear that there is money available for the right deal, but that deal never materializes!
I won’t say nobody, because there are always a few who want the Cardinals to spend stupid money, but very few Cardinal fans expect ownership to spend like the Dodgers, Mets and others. However, to spend like the Pirates, Rays, Reds, and teams like them is a slap in the true Cardinals fans’ faces. The Cardinals should be able to outspend those teams as well as the Brewers, and field a highly competitive team! Hopefully Bloom will make better decisions than Mo did and spend the DeWitts money more wisely, so they’ll be apt to let go of more of it! I want my Grandkids to experience what it’s like to watch the Cardinals in the playoffs and World Series, and be excited about the team, the way I use to be!

Well said.

What's sad is that is the narrative they are pushing - don't have money to spend - and a lot of people (including many on here) just accept that as fact. It's ridiculous for the ST. LOUIS CARDINALS to have a payroll this low and act like they HAVE to shed Sonny Gray just to have enough money to spend a little.

Absolutely ZERO reason payroll cannot be $180 M (honestly should be closer to 200M). I mean we aren't in 2015 anymore. Get real!!!

I haven't heard them say that they "can't" spend on players. What they have said is that they "won't" spend on players at that level right now. I believe them. I was a little stunned to hear Bloom say publicly that he thought the payroll might be similar to last year. That was new- and at least to me- unexpected.