STLtoday.com

Of the players we know are going to be available Donny gives C. Bloom his best shot at acquiring a cost controlled, young starting pitcher w/upside and years of control.

Everyone like's Donny, he's been an excellent player.

But going into his age 29 season does he really fit the long term, rebuild plan or is he better suited as Bloom's top trade piece?

To me it's clear, he's Bloom's best shot at landing a major league ready or current young major league starter.

I've been in this camp for months:

Re: The problem with rebuilding
Post by rockondlouie » 28 Aug 2025 10:14 am

Look at T. Edman.

On that Dodgers team loaded w/stars he was a perfect fit!

Donovan could be the same on a similar team

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑10 Nov 2025 09:50 am

TraveledLessRoad wrote: ↑10 Nov 2025 09:41 am Donovan would be a PERFECT fit for Kansas City. He's cheap, versatile, and controlled for two more years. He's literally exactly what they need. They (KC) have also been rumored to be considering a trade of Kris Bubic. To me, that's a fair one for one trade. The Cards would have Bubic controlled for next season before he hits free agency. Gives us a year to decide where we think we are as an organization, and get first crack at offering him a longer term contract from 27 and beyond.

Bubic is a good pitcher, but his contract status doesn't fit at all with what the Cardinals are trying to do.

I know the amount of control left on his deal doesn't fit our timeline, but that's the reason KC would actually trade a potential #1 starter to us. It gives us one year to determine if he's the guy to lead this staff as they push towards contention. He's only 28

TraveledLessRoad wrote: ↑10 Nov 2025 10:14 am

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑10 Nov 2025 09:50 am

TraveledLessRoad wrote: ↑10 Nov 2025 09:41 am Donovan would be a PERFECT fit for Kansas City. He's cheap, versatile, and controlled for two more years. He's literally exactly what they need. They (KC) have also been rumored to be considering a trade of Kris Bubic. To me, that's a fair one for one trade. The Cards would have Bubic controlled for next season before he hits free agency. Gives us a year to decide where we think we are as an organization, and get first crack at offering him a longer term contract from 27 and beyond.

Bubic is a good pitcher, but his contract status doesn't fit at all with what the Cardinals are trying to do.

I know the amount of control left on his deal doesn't fit our timeline, but that's the reason KC would actually trade a potential #1 starter to us. It gives us one year to determine if he's the guy to lead this staff as they push towards contention. He's only 28

That’s….not a good idea.

Explain to me "why" it is not a good idea? You'd prefer to trade our arguably best player and trade chip for someone more controlled but unknown?

TraveledLessRoad wrote: ↑10 Nov 2025 10:30 am Explain to me "why" it is not a good idea? You'd prefer to trade our arguably best player and trade chip for someone more controlled but unknown?

So we trade arguably our best player for a pitcher with one year left because, according to you, we need to have him on our team for a year to determine whether we should then sign him to a LT contract?

That is correct, and sensible.

TraveledLessRoad wrote: ↑10 Nov 2025 10:30 am Explain to me "why" it is not a good idea? You'd prefer to trade our arguably best player and trade chip for someone more controlled but unknown?

Because players almost never sign extensions in their walk year and the almost never sign with them after declaring free agency. It happens sometimes with the Guerrero's and Judge's of the world, but I can think of few other examples. You squander your best trade chip for a pitcher who may be great during one year of a rebuild.

His trade value will never be higher…..

The old regime would have kept him…….will the new regime make that mistake as well?

TraveledLessRoad wrote: ↑10 Nov 2025 10:35 am That is correct, and sensible.

It’s not sensible.

You want to know if Bubic is worth a LT contract? That’s what scouts are for.

Jatalk wrote: ↑10 Nov 2025 08:12 am So why trade him? Young. Relatively cheap. I’m not convinced the return in a trade is more benefit from him being on the roster. But I would listen to all offers.

Bloom would need to get either two quality pitching prospects in return for Donovan. Or both one quality pitching prospect and one quaiity power hitting prospect. Preferably, a RH hitting outfielder. The power hitting prospect could hit LH and play a corner infield if he's a truly highly rated power hitting prospect.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑10 Nov 2025 08:19 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑10 Nov 2025 08:12 am So why trade him? Young. Relatively cheap. I’m not convinced the return in a trade is more benefit from him being on the roster. But I would listen to all offers.

Young and cheap good in clubhouse. What could you possibly get that bets you a bigger producer. I know you gotta give to get.

This is my issue, especially if going after a prospect. We want an overpay, but what team will actually give us an overpay? Franchises have become irrationally jealous with their top prospects. We aren't even going to get a lotto ticket on the next Bobby Witt for trading a known quantity in Donovan. I'd listen to offers, but I'm pessimistic that they will be as good as some here expect.

Instead of overpaying, some teams will just move on to the next target. Josh Smith, Zach McKinstry, Jeremiah Jackson, Jacob Lombard, or even older vets on a short term deal. Its not like he's a top SP that someone will give a kings ransom for. Yes, he's a winner, and great to have around, but he just doesn't fill the type of high-impact "build around" roster spot that GMs look for early in the offseason. So he might end up having more value to us to keep than other teams are willing to give up in the real world.

This is where I think there is a disconnect in the trading efficiency of CT theory vs what can and will actually happen. In theory you want to strip down all excess value and talent from a year you have decided to "not compete" and then you want to receive at least that much value/production etc back in a later year that lines up with your magic window. In the real world, its not so easy to replace proven talent with prospects that turn into producing talent. Who was the last non-drafted AA or lower prospect we traded for who because an AS? Maybe once or twice since Adam Wainwright? Its rare. Most of our producing prospects come thru our own drafts or intl signings. Whats the combined WAR so far of the "haul" we got for the 2023 dump that several here were so high on?

Prospects have value, but too often they are overrated, and often proven all-stars had more value in hindsight. And many times that value can best be realized by trading for another proven all-star with enough career runway to consider extending, not for random prospects on a hope and a prayer. Its not ideally efficient, but its probably more realistic.

I agree 100% with the OP. No debate in my mind.

They should (and are I believe) marketing Donovan for prospects that might emerge as core players in 2-3 years.

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑10 Nov 2025 10:35 am

TraveledLessRoad wrote: ↑10 Nov 2025 10:30 am Explain to me "why" it is not a good idea? You'd prefer to trade our arguably best player and trade chip for someone more controlled but unknown?

Because players almost never sign extensions in their walk year and the almost never sign with them after declaring free agency. It happens sometimes with the Guerrero's and Judge's of the world, but I can think of few other examples. You squander your best trade chip for a pitcher who may be great during one year of a rebuild.

It worked for Goldy, Rolen, Edmonds, McGwire, Holliday. The STL Cardinals are much better at trading for a Star or plus player then extending them than they are at signing a top player out of Free Agency.

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑10 Nov 2025 11:42 am I agree 100% with the OP. No debate in my mind.

They should (and are I believe) marketing Donovan for prospects that might emerge as core players in 2-3 years.

What if, A. we don't get offered future core level prospects and/or B. they don't emerge? To me this is highly likely scenario. Prospects are so overrated by all parties these days that I'm pessimistic.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑10 Nov 2025 11:44 am

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑10 Nov 2025 10:35 am

TraveledLessRoad wrote: ↑10 Nov 2025 10:30 am Explain to me "why" it is not a good idea? You'd prefer to trade our arguably best player and trade chip for someone more controlled but unknown?

Because players almost never sign extensions in their walk year and the almost never sign with them after declaring free agency. It happens sometimes with the Guerrero's and Judge's of the world, but I can think of few other examples. You squander your best trade chip for a pitcher who may be great during one year of a rebuild.

It worked for Goldy, Rolen, Edmonds, McGwire, Holliday. The STL Cardinals are much better at trading for a Star or plus player then extending them than they are at signing a top player out of Free Agency.

Are there examples of players doing this in STL, or elsewhere in the past 5 years? That seems like a practice from the past that is rarely practiced anymore.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑10 Nov 2025 11:44 am

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑10 Nov 2025 10:35 am

TraveledLessRoad wrote: ↑10 Nov 2025 10:30 am Explain to me "why" it is not a good idea? You'd prefer to trade our arguably best player and trade chip for someone more controlled but unknown?

Because players almost never sign extensions in their walk year and the almost never sign with them after declaring free agency. It happens sometimes with the Guerrero's and Judge's of the world, but I can think of few other examples. You squander your best trade chip for a pitcher who may be great during one year of a rebuild.

It worked for Goldy, Rolen, Edmonds, McGwire, Holliday. The STL Cardinals are much better at trading for a Star or plus player then extending them than they are at signing a top player out of Free Agency.

Most of your examples are 16-27 years old.

Bubic is a year away from what will be the biggest contract of his career.

Bloom shouldn’t count on the toasted ravioli swaying Bubic to choose a hometown discount…