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Goldfan wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 10:53 am “In June 2020, Bill DeWitt Jr. stated that Major League Baseball is not a very profitable industry for owners, claiming that increased operating costs like a larger front office staff and analytics departments consume revenue growth, making profits slim. This statement was made during MLB's lockout negotiations with the players' union. While the MLB has seen high revenue, DeWitt argued that this revenue is reinvested into operations, rather than lining the pockets of owners.
Quote: "The industry isn't very profitable, to be honest," DeWitt said in an interview on 590TheFan in St. Louis.
Context: He was speaking during the 2020 MLB lockout amid labor negotiations, and his comments were similar to those of other team owners.
Reasoning: DeWitt argued that rising costs, such as hiring more non-player staff (including front office and analytics personnel), offset revenue increases, making profitability low for owners. “

2 things
-The irony of all irony was that when BDW made this statement he and MO had been going CHEAP on organizational funding for years as we now know
-and Secondly, if BDW is in this for income and he acknowledges that this is a very poor income business then WHY doesn’t he take his LARGE (75mil>>>3bil) Cap Appreciation and sell the team???

I don't care for his comments about his discretionary capital ventures. It also
doesn't matter for his budget is his and he has every right to do as he pleases. You buy to compete.
There's a certain amount of responsibility to the game to do so. IMO, that's implied in sports.
Pittsburgh type attitudes are as wrong for the sport as unbridled spending. Franchises have an
interdependence.

That doesn't make what Bill said inaccurate. Baseball did not outpace the S&P 500
index fund during that time frame. $150 million would be $3 billion +/- a couple hundred million.
That kind of capital does very well in many investments.

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 12:08 pm The Cardinals are valued at $2.5 billion.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/04/11/cn ... -2025.html

They were purchased, along with the 2 stadium garages, for $150 million.
https://thisdayinbaseball.com/1995-anh ... -st-louis/

That’s an over 1500% unrealized gain.

That's also is not inflation adjusted with an investment that
is not liquid. His unrealized gain will be less.

Bill is okay, he doesn't need a fund me campaign. But 2 things can
be accurate at the same time. It has may not been his best 30 year
investment.

renostl wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 16:20 pm

Goldfan wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 10:53 am “In June 2020, Bill DeWitt Jr. stated that Major League Baseball is not a very profitable industry for owners, claiming that increased operating costs like a larger front office staff and analytics departments consume revenue growth, making profits slim. This statement was made during MLB's lockout negotiations with the players' union. While the MLB has seen high revenue, DeWitt argued that this revenue is reinvested into operations, rather than lining the pockets of owners.
Quote: "The industry isn't very profitable, to be honest," DeWitt said in an interview on 590TheFan in St. Louis.
Context: He was speaking during the 2020 MLB lockout amid labor negotiations, and his comments were similar to those of other team owners.
Reasoning: DeWitt argued that rising costs, such as hiring more non-player staff (including front office and analytics personnel), offset revenue increases, making profitability low for owners. “

2 things
-The irony of all irony was that when BDW made this statement he and MO had been going CHEAP on organizational funding for years as we now know
-and Secondly, if BDW is in this for income and he acknowledges that this is a very poor income business then WHY doesn’t he take his LARGE (75mil>>>3bil) Cap Appreciation and sell the team???

I don't care for his comments about his discretionary capital ventures. It also
doesn't matter for his budget is his and he has every right to do as he pleases. You buy to compete.
There's a certain amount of responsibility to the game to do so. IMO, that's implied in sports.
Pittsburgh type attitudes are as wrong for the sport as unbridled spending. Franchises have an
interdependence.

That doesn't make what Bill said inaccurate. Baseball did not outpace the S&P 500
index fund during that time frame. $150 million would be $3 billion +/- a couple hundred million.
That kind of capital does very well in many investments.

Well exactly and I’ve made this point many times here. This shouldn’t be solely about the P/L statement…..if BDW doesn’t want to spend what it takes to win then there are a multitude of investments where he could make a better return and NOT have to deal with Fans, a sports team performance, or really anyone caring how he controls or manipulates his money. So why is he an owner of a Pro Franchise??

Goldfan wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 16:36 pm

renostl wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 16:20 pm

Goldfan wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 10:53 am “In June 2020, Bill DeWitt Jr. stated that Major League Baseball is not a very profitable industry for owners, claiming that increased operating costs like a larger front office staff and analytics departments consume revenue growth, making profits slim. This statement was made during MLB's lockout negotiations with the players' union. While the MLB has seen high revenue, DeWitt argued that this revenue is reinvested into operations, rather than lining the pockets of owners.
Quote: "The industry isn't very profitable, to be honest," DeWitt said in an interview on 590TheFan in St. Louis.
Context: He was speaking during the 2020 MLB lockout amid labor negotiations, and his comments were similar to those of other team owners.
Reasoning: DeWitt argued that rising costs, such as hiring more non-player staff (including front office and analytics personnel), offset revenue increases, making profitability low for owners. “

2 things
-The irony of all irony was that when BDW made this statement he and MO had been going CHEAP on organizational funding for years as we now know
-and Secondly, if BDW is in this for income and he acknowledges that this is a very poor income business then WHY doesn’t he take his LARGE (75mil>>>3bil) Cap Appreciation and sell the team???

I don't care for his comments about his discretionary capital ventures. It also
doesn't matter for his budget is his and he has every right to do as he pleases. You buy to compete.
There's a certain amount of responsibility to the game to do so. IMO, that's implied in sports.
Pittsburgh type attitudes are as wrong for the sport as unbridled spending. Franchises have an
interdependence.

That doesn't make what Bill said inaccurate. Baseball did not outpace the S&P 500
index fund during that time frame. $150 million would be $3 billion +/- a couple hundred million.
That kind of capital does very well in many investments.

Well exactly and I’ve made this point many times here. This shouldn’t be solely about the P/L statement…..if BDW doesn’t want to spend what it takes to win then there are a multitude of investments where he could make a better return and NOT have to deal with Fans, a sports team performance, or really anyone caring how he controls or manipulates his money. So why is he an owner of a Pro Franchise??

He's a baseball man since way back when. You know that.
Such a lather

riff raff wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 16:40 pm

Goldfan wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 16:36 pm

renostl wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 16:20 pm

Goldfan wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 10:53 am “In June 2020, Bill DeWitt Jr. stated that Major League Baseball is not a very profitable industry for owners, claiming that increased operating costs like a larger front office staff and analytics departments consume revenue growth, making profits slim. This statement was made during MLB's lockout negotiations with the players' union. While the MLB has seen high revenue, DeWitt argued that this revenue is reinvested into operations, rather than lining the pockets of owners.
Quote: "The industry isn't very profitable, to be honest," DeWitt said in an interview on 590TheFan in St. Louis.
Context: He was speaking during the 2020 MLB lockout amid labor negotiations, and his comments were similar to those of other team owners.
Reasoning: DeWitt argued that rising costs, such as hiring more non-player staff (including front office and analytics personnel), offset revenue increases, making profitability low for owners. “

2 things
-The irony of all irony was that when BDW made this statement he and MO had been going CHEAP on organizational funding for years as we now know
-and Secondly, if BDW is in this for income and he acknowledges that this is a very poor income business then WHY doesn’t he take his LARGE (75mil>>>3bil) Cap Appreciation and sell the team???

I don't care for his comments about his discretionary capital ventures. It also
doesn't matter for his budget is his and he has every right to do as he pleases. You buy to compete.
There's a certain amount of responsibility to the game to do so. IMO, that's implied in sports.
Pittsburgh type attitudes are as wrong for the sport as unbridled spending. Franchises have an
interdependence.

That doesn't make what Bill said inaccurate. Baseball did not outpace the S&P 500
index fund during that time frame. $150 million would be $3 billion +/- a couple hundred million.
That kind of capital does very well in many investments.

Well exactly and I’ve made this point many times here. This shouldn’t be solely about the P/L statement…..if BDW doesn’t want to spend what it takes to win then there are a multitude of investments where he could make a better return and NOT have to deal with Fans, a sports team performance, or really anyone caring how he controls or manipulates his money. So why is he an owner of a Pro Franchise??

He's a baseball man since way back when. You know that.
Such a lather

So get payroll back to where it was and win…..Period. Don’t care about his debt service, don’t care about his LLC, don’t care about a terrible new TV deal that only set him back 17mil annually, perhaps the new guy won’t waste multi millions of BDW $$$ on poor players…..start there

Goldfan wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 16:36 pm

renostl wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 16:20 pm

Goldfan wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 10:53 am “In June 2020, Bill DeWitt Jr. stated that Major League Baseball is not a very profitable industry for owners, claiming that increased operating costs like a larger front office staff and analytics departments consume revenue growth, making profits slim. This statement was made during MLB's lockout negotiations with the players' union. While the MLB has seen high revenue, DeWitt argued that this revenue is reinvested into operations, rather than lining the pockets of owners.
Quote: "The industry isn't very profitable, to be honest," DeWitt said in an interview on 590TheFan in St. Louis.
Context: He was speaking during the 2020 MLB lockout amid labor negotiations, and his comments were similar to those of other team owners.
Reasoning: DeWitt argued that rising costs, such as hiring more non-player staff (including front office and analytics personnel), offset revenue increases, making profitability low for owners. “

2 things
-The irony of all irony was that when BDW made this statement he and MO had been going CHEAP on organizational funding for years as we now know
-and Secondly, if BDW is in this for income and he acknowledges that this is a very poor income business then WHY doesn’t he take his LARGE (75mil>>>3bil) Cap Appreciation and sell the team???

I don't care for his comments about his discretionary capital ventures. It also
doesn't matter for his budget is his and he has every right to do as he pleases. You buy to compete.
There's a certain amount of responsibility to the game to do so. IMO, that's implied in sports.
Pittsburgh type attitudes are as wrong for the sport as unbridled spending. Franchises have an
interdependence.

That doesn't make what Bill said inaccurate. Baseball did not outpace the S&P 500
index fund during that time frame. $150 million would be $3 billion +/- a couple hundred million.
That kind of capital does very well in many investments.

Well exactly and I’ve made this point many times here. This shouldn’t be solely about the P/L statement…..if BDW doesn’t want to spend what it takes to win then there are a multitude of investments where he could make a better return and NOT have to deal with Fans, a sports team performance, or really anyone caring how he controls or manipulates his money. So why is he an owner of a Pro Franchise??

He obviously still likes it.
He'd sell if he hated it, right?

I don't close the book on the guy. He is overly loyal IMO.
He out spent all in the central divisions NL and AL including the Cubs
some season up to 2024 with MO without getting results.
He won't go over the tax. It is his ball.
That doesn't mean that I won't close it on him. Some will depend
on his response to the fan protests to his team.

This is just guess work by almost everyone. What is public knowledge is the Forbes valuation of the Cardinals. 25 years ago BDW paid 75 million (150-75) for a product that is now worth about 2.5 billion dollars. If he were to sell the Cardinals it’s entirely possible he could get more. That’s a pretty good return on investment.

What we don’t know and is pure conjecture, is what the yearly profits have been. We see estimates but we can only guess. I have seen estimates of anywhere from 30-40 million dollars some years to as much as 80-90 million dollars in the more successful years. These estimates also only include baseball operations and don’t include the monies made from BPV and his apartments next to the stadium. These shouldn’t be included in the baseball operations but it would be hard to argue that BPV and the high rises next door aren’t affected by the Cardinals operations. There was also the one time 50 million dollar payment to all teams from the sale of some streaming services to I believe Disney.

There is no way to know how much money the Cardinals have made over the years. At a 75 million dollar outlay in the original transaction, it’s safe to say that BDW has done quite well in owning the Cardinals. If I consider the 75 million minus the 50 million from the sale of the streaming service to Disney, the Cardinals were bought for the mere total of 25 million dollars. The return is now in the billions and climbing.

renostl wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 16:32 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 12:08 pm The Cardinals are valued at $2.5 billion.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/04/11/cn ... -2025.html

They were purchased, along with the 2 stadium garages, for $150 million.
https://thisdayinbaseball.com/1995-anh ... -st-louis/

That’s an over 1500% unrealized gain.

That's also is not inflation adjusted with an investment that
is not liquid. His unrealized gain will be less.

Bill is okay, he doesn't need a fund me campaign. But 2 things can
be accurate at the same time. It has may not been his best 30 year
investment.

The total inflation over 30 years depends on the specific period, but for 1995 to 2025, it's a cumulative increase of about 112.6%, meaning that money today is worth about 56% of what it was 30 years ago.

Dewitt sold the garages for $30 million, making the total investment $90 million. Adjusted for inflation, that’s $200 million. That’s still over 1000% return. On top of the $30 million they are claiming in profit per year (with no supporting financial documentation.)

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:02 pm

renostl wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 16:32 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 12:08 pm The Cardinals are valued at $2.5 billion.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/04/11/cn ... -2025.html

They were purchased, along with the 2 stadium garages, for $150 million.
https://thisdayinbaseball.com/1995-anh ... -st-louis/

That’s an over 1500% unrealized gain.

That's also is not inflation adjusted with an investment that
is not liquid. His unrealized gain will be less.

Bill is okay, he doesn't need a fund me campaign. But 2 things can
be accurate at the same time. It has may not been his best 30 year
investment.

The total inflation over 30 years depends on the specific period, but for 1995 to 2025, it's a cumulative increase of about 112.6%, meaning that money today is worth about 56% of what it was 30 years ago.

Dewitt sold the garages for $30 million, making the total investment $90 million. Adjusted for inflation, that’s $200 million. That’s still over 1000% return. On top of the $30 million they are claiming in profit per year (with no supporting financial documentation.)

Who’s claiming $30 million in “profit”?

Cranny wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:20 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:02 pm

renostl wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 16:32 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 12:08 pm The Cardinals are valued at $2.5 billion.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/04/11/cn ... -2025.html

They were purchased, along with the 2 stadium garages, for $150 million.
https://thisdayinbaseball.com/1995-anh ... -st-louis/

That’s an over 1500% unrealized gain.

That's also is not inflation adjusted with an investment that
is not liquid. His unrealized gain will be less.

Bill is okay, he doesn't need a fund me campaign. But 2 things can
be accurate at the same time. It has may not been his best 30 year
investment.

The total inflation over 30 years depends on the specific period, but for 1995 to 2025, it's a cumulative increase of about 112.6%, meaning that money today is worth about 56% of what it was 30 years ago.

Dewitt sold the garages for $30 million, making the total investment $90 million. Adjusted for inflation, that’s $200 million. That’s still over 1000% return. On top of the $30 million they are claiming in profit per year (with no supporting financial documentation.)

Who’s claiming $30 million in “profit”?

You are a company man only looking at profit. not a fan.

OldRed wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:36 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:20 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:02 pm

renostl wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 16:32 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 12:08 pm The Cardinals are valued at $2.5 billion.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/04/11/cn ... -2025.html

They were purchased, along with the 2 stadium garages, for $150 million.
https://thisdayinbaseball.com/1995-anh ... -st-louis/

That’s an over 1500% unrealized gain.

That's also is not inflation adjusted with an investment that
is not liquid. His unrealized gain will be less.

Bill is okay, he doesn't need a fund me campaign. But 2 things can
be accurate at the same time. It has may not been his best 30 year
investment.

The total inflation over 30 years depends on the specific period, but for 1995 to 2025, it's a cumulative increase of about 112.6%, meaning that money today is worth about 56% of what it was 30 years ago.

Dewitt sold the garages for $30 million, making the total investment $90 million. Adjusted for inflation, that’s $200 million. That’s still over 1000% return. On top of the $30 million they are claiming in profit per year (with no supporting financial documentation.)

Who’s claiming $30 million in “profit”?

You are a company man only looking at profit. not a fan.

And you seem to be a shallow poster who does very little except repeat yourself.

Cranny wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:20 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:02 pm

renostl wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 16:32 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 12:08 pm The Cardinals are valued at $2.5 billion.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/04/11/cn ... -2025.html

They were purchased, along with the 2 stadium garages, for $150 million.
https://thisdayinbaseball.com/1995-anh ... -st-louis/

That’s an over 1500% unrealized gain.

That's also is not inflation adjusted with an investment that
is not liquid. His unrealized gain will be less.

Bill is okay, he doesn't need a fund me campaign. But 2 things can
be accurate at the same time. It has may not been his best 30 year
investment.

The total inflation over 30 years depends on the specific period, but for 1995 to 2025, it's a cumulative increase of about 112.6%, meaning that money today is worth about 56% of what it was 30 years ago.

Dewitt sold the garages for $30 million, making the total investment $90 million. Adjusted for inflation, that’s $200 million. That’s still over 1000% return. On top of the $30 million they are claiming in profit per year (with no supporting financial documentation.)

Who’s claiming $30 million in “profit”?

The CNBC valuation article above. It shows $34 million EBITDA.

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 21:20 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:20 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:02 pm

renostl wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 16:32 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 12:08 pm The Cardinals are valued at $2.5 billion.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/04/11/cn ... -2025.html

They were purchased, along with the 2 stadium garages, for $150 million.
https://thisdayinbaseball.com/1995-anh ... -st-louis/

That’s an over 1500% unrealized gain.

That's also is not inflation adjusted with an investment that
is not liquid. His unrealized gain will be less.

Bill is okay, he doesn't need a fund me campaign. But 2 things can
be accurate at the same time. It has may not been his best 30 year
investment.

The total inflation over 30 years depends on the specific period, but for 1995 to 2025, it's a cumulative increase of about 112.6%, meaning that money today is worth about 56% of what it was 30 years ago.

Dewitt sold the garages for $30 million, making the total investment $90 million. Adjusted for inflation, that’s $200 million. That’s still over 1000% return. On top of the $30 million they are claiming in profit per year (with no supporting financial documentation.)

Who’s claiming $30 million in “profit”?

The CNBC valuation article above. It shows $34 million EBITDA.

Great. And what’s the debt service, including both interest and any principal reduction required by the banks?

Cranny wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 21:37 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 21:20 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:20 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:02 pm

renostl wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 16:32 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 12:08 pm The Cardinals are valued at $2.5 billion.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/04/11/cn ... -2025.html

They were purchased, along with the 2 stadium garages, for $150 million.
https://thisdayinbaseball.com/1995-anh ... -st-louis/

That’s an over 1500% unrealized gain.

That's also is not inflation adjusted with an investment that
is not liquid. His unrealized gain will be less.

Bill is okay, he doesn't need a fund me campaign. But 2 things can
be accurate at the same time. It has may not been his best 30 year
investment.

The total inflation over 30 years depends on the specific period, but for 1995 to 2025, it's a cumulative increase of about 112.6%, meaning that money today is worth about 56% of what it was 30 years ago.

Dewitt sold the garages for $30 million, making the total investment $90 million. Adjusted for inflation, that’s $200 million. That’s still over 1000% return. On top of the $30 million they are claiming in profit per year (with no supporting financial documentation.)

Who’s claiming $30 million in “profit”?

The CNBC valuation article above. It shows $34 million EBITDA.

Great. And what’s the debt service, including both interest and any principal reduction required by the banks?

EBITDA is the earnings calculated after operating costs, including debt service.

EBITDA is earnings before interest, taxes, deprecation, and amortization is deducted.

If you can’t make money owning a baseball team in baseball-crazy St. Louis, you’ve done something terribly wrong.