ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 11:13 am
...acquire free agents and trade prospects for established veterans in order to compete for the playoffs every season.
And how has that worked out for them for the last decade?
The whole "continuing to throw good money after bad" approach is part of why the organization is in need of a rebuild.
You have to acknowledge the fact that the problem was Mo who mismanaged the payroll money w/poor decision after decision.
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 11:13 am
...acquire free agents and trade prospects for established veterans in order to compete for the playoffs every season.
And how has that worked out for them for the last decade?
The whole "continuing to throw good money after bad" approach is part of why the organization is in need of a rebuild.
You have to acknowledge the fact that the problem was Mo who mismanaged the payroll money w/poor decision after decision.
But, ultimately, it has still compromised the current depth of the team. Until the young depth of the team is rebuilt, there is no need to talk about significant spending.
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 11:13 am
...acquire free agents and trade prospects for established veterans in order to compete for the playoffs every season.
And how has that worked out for them for the last decade?
The whole "continuing to throw good money after bad" approach is part of why the organization is in need of a rebuild.
That's a person making the decisions problem.
Spend the money prudently as was done before.
Seemed to work pretty well before you know who.
In a different era of baseball economics.
I knew that was coming the old fallback in this discussion.
Im not talking the Larry Walker, Carlos Beltran stopgaps.
Im talking about the obvious move to sign Harper when theam had a crying need for a franchise type player especially in the OF.
An ownership group/GM should have seen the " changing economics" and realized getting a player of his ilk entering his prime for a historic franchise would be the possible cornerstone for a new era of Cardinal baseball.
And please no one can convince me at the time he wouldn't have rather come here than Philadelphia.
The team haS been chasing that type of player ever since.
Goldy and Arenado were in the twilight of their primes.
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 11:13 am
...acquire free agents and trade prospects for established veterans in order to compete for the playoffs every season.
And how has that worked out for them for the last decade?
The whole "continuing to throw good money after bad" approach is part of why the organization is in need of a rebuild.
That's a person making the decisions problem.
Spend the money prudently as was done before.
Seemed to work pretty well before you know who.
In a different era of baseball economics.
I knew that was coming the old fallback in this discussion.
Im not talking the Larry Walker, Carlos Beltran stopgaps.
Im talking about the obvious move to sign Harper when theam had a crying need for a franchise type player especially in the OF.
An ownership group/GM should have seen the " changing economics" and realized getting a player of his ilk entering his prime for a historic franchise would be the possible cornerstone for a new era of Cardinal baseball.
And please no one can convince me at the time he wouldn't have rather come here than Philadelphia.
The team haS been chasing that type of player ever since.
Goldy and Arenado were in the twilight of their primes.
I think BDW probably balked at making Harper an offer. What big contract position player has the Cardinals signed from outside the organization during Dewitt’s ownership? Holliday had already spent half a season in StL. So had McGwire. Bergman and Beltran were short 2 year deals. The biggest deal in terms of money and years I can think of would be Fowler. Nice job, Mo.
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 11:13 am
...acquire free agents and trade prospects for established veterans in order to compete for the playoffs every season.
And how has that worked out for them for the last decade?
The whole "continuing to throw good money after bad" approach is part of why the organization is in need of a rebuild.
That's a person making the decisions problem.
Spend the money prudently as was done before.
Seemed to work pretty well before you know who.
In a different era of baseball economics.
I knew that was coming the old fallback in this discussion.
Im not talking the Larry Walker, Carlos Beltran stopgaps.
Im talking about the obvious move to sign Harper when theam had a crying need for a franchise type player especially in the OF.
An ownership group/GM should have seen the " changing economics" and realized getting a player of his ilk entering his prime for a historic franchise would be the possible cornerstone for a new era of Cardinal baseball.
And please no one can convince me at the time he wouldn't have rather come here than Philadelphia.
The team haS been chasing that type of player ever since.
Goldy and Arenado were in the twilight of their primes.
I think BDW probably balked at making Harper an offer. What big contract position player has the Cardinals signed from outside the organization during Dewitt’s ownership? Holliday had already spent half a season in StL. So had McGwire. Bergman and Beltran were short 2 year deals. The biggest deal in terms of money and years I can think of would be Fowler. Nice job, Mo.
That's my point.
The money blown on Fowler and Leake alone would have gone a long way in paying Harper.
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 11:13 am
...acquire free agents and trade prospects for established veterans in order to compete for the playoffs every season.
And how has that worked out for them for the last decade?
The whole "continuing to throw good money after bad" approach is part of why the organization is in need of a rebuild.
You have to acknowledge the fact that the problem was Mo who mismanaged the payroll money w/poor decision after decision.
But, ultimately, it has still compromised the current depth of the team. Until the young depth of the team is rebuilt, there is no need to talk about significant spending.
No, not "ultimately" matt.
Mo wasted hundreds of millions of the payroll dollars BDWJr gave him the last decade and those horrible decisions have the team where it is today.
(He's even acknowledged he pretty much ignored funding the minor league system for years leading to the dearth of prospects getting proper, up to date instruction and development)
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 11:13 am
Bill DeWitt Jr to Bill DeWitt III as the hands on owner of the Cardinals. We seem more inclined to dump and rebuild from the bottom up whereas previously we wanted to acquire free agents and trade prospects for established veterans in order to compete for the playoffs every season.
Either that or the poor tv deal and related drop in attendance has reduced revenue to the point where he has no choice.
BDW chose moneyball over a commitment to excellence and reciprocal loyalty to the fan base. Revenue from all sources plummeted because the product is no longer premium and in high demand.
Everyone blames Mo, but did BDW not notice how wrong Mo was in his disagreements with TLR? The Rasmus situation should’ve been all the proof needed.
I’d trade any prospect we have, including the great Cardinals savior JJ Wetherholt if it would fill half the holes this team has. This generic brand garbage approach has turned one of the premier elite sports franchises into an afterthought and laughingstock.
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 12:56 pmThe holes we filled with experienced journeyman players from the Rasmus trade did not entail long term commitment. The Lackey trade did not hamstring our payroll for years on end. The Matt Holiday deal was not earth shattering expensive to a billionaire owner who had a loyal paying fanbase.
Why is spending always equated to decades-long monster mega deals? There is a sensible middle ground.
You can understand the state of the team back in those years compared to now, right? They were drafting and developing well back in those days. Those teams were all pretty good teams that needed a piece here or there to put the, over the top.
We need to get back to that point to where moves like that make sense.
It really surprises me how seemingly engaged baseball fans can’t understand the most modest of rebuilds and how this org obviously needs a reset.
I don’t understand why so many think a rebuild can’t include spending and trading in concurrence with the revamping of player development.
We can win faster with all wheels turning together. You don’t have to lose and lose and lose some more to eventually hopefully one day maybe build a winner again. You try your (donkey) off from every single angle every single year. If BDW isn’t fully committed to winning then he should sell the [fork]ing team to someone who cares.
Well, you can sign people, but you don't make 'win now' trades.
11WSChamps wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 13:17 pmIm talking about the obvious move to sign Harper when theam had a crying need for a franchise type player especially in the OF.
An ownership group/GM should have seen the " changing economics" and realized getting a player of his ilk entering his prime for a historic franchise would be the possible cornerstone for a new era of Cardinal baseball.
And please no one can convince me at the time he wouldn't have rather come here than Philadelphia.
The team haS been chasing that type of player ever since.
Goldy and Arenado were in the twilight of their primes.
I mean, yea, I suppose it would have made sense to sign a guy like Harper, but there’s some drama going on with him right now. He’s seven years into that contract with six more to go. He had a down season that has got people talking, plus he’s looking for an extension. There’s some drama being played out in public with him and the Phillies. He’s 32, so there might be a lot more down seasons and bad feelings to come. So while in theory signing a guy like Harper, at the age he was, would be nice. But 10+ years is a long time and a lot of things can happen to make that end pretty badly for both parties. And if I’m the team I’m (bleep) sure not trying to extend a guy with six years left and is going to be 33 next year.
But anyway, they didn’t sign him. This owner has never operated like that. I don’t suspect he will moving forward either.
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 11:13 am
...acquire free agents and trade prospects for established veterans in order to compete for the playoffs every season.
And how has that worked out for them for the last decade?
The whole "continuing to throw good money after bad" approach is part of why the organization is in need of a rebuild.
That's a person making the decisions problem.
Spend the money prudently as was done before.
Seemed to work pretty well before you know who.
In a different era of baseball economics.
I knew that was coming the old fallback in this discussion.
Im not talking the Larry Walker, Carlos Beltran stopgaps.
Im talking about the obvious move to sign Harper when theam had a crying need for a franchise type player especially in the OF.
An ownership group/GM should have seen the " changing economics" and realized getting a player of his ilk entering his prime for a historic franchise would be the possible cornerstone for a new era of Cardinal baseball.
And please no one can convince me at the time he wouldn't have rather come here than Philadelphia.
The team haS been chasing that type of player ever since.
Goldy and Arenado were in the twilight of their primes.
I think BDW probably balked at making Harper an offer. What big contract position player has the Cardinals signed from outside the organization during Dewitt’s ownership? Holliday had already spent half a season in StL. So had McGwire. Bergman and Beltran were short 2 year deals. The biggest deal in terms of money and years I can think of would be Fowler. Nice job, Mo.
That's my point.
The money blown on Fowler and Leake alone would have gone a long way in paying Harper.
It really surprises me how seemingly engaged baseball fans can’t understand the most modest of rebuilds and how this org obviously needs a reset.
I don’t understand why so many think a rebuild can’t include spending and trading in concurrence with the revamping of player development.
We can win faster with all wheels turning together. You don’t have to lose and lose and lose some more to eventually hopefully one day maybe build a winner again. You try your (donkey) off from every single angle every single year. If BDW isn’t fully committed to winning then he should sell the [fork]ing team to someone who cares.
Because they are trying to lower payroll as much as possible, that is why they probably won't see any significant free agents. I believe they want to get the payroll under $100 million. I would be suprised if they sign anyone for more than like $5-$7 million $10 million tops this offseason.
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 11:13 am
...acquire free agents and trade prospects for established veterans in order to compete for the playoffs every season.
And how has that worked out for them for the last decade?
The whole "continuing to throw good money after bad" approach is part of why the organization is in need of a rebuild.
11WSChamps wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 13:17 pmIm talking about the obvious move to sign Harper when theam had a crying need for a franchise type player especially in the OF.
An ownership group/GM should have seen the " changing economics" and realized getting a player of his ilk entering his prime for a historic franchise would be the possible cornerstone for a new era of Cardinal baseball.
And please no one can convince me at the time he wouldn't have rather come here than Philadelphia.
The team haS been chasing that type of player ever since.
Goldy and Arenado were in the twilight of their primes.
I mean, yea, I suppose it would have made sense to sign a guy like Harper, but there’s some drama going on with him right now. He’s seven years into that contract with six more to go. He had a down season that has got people talking, plus he’s looking for an extension. There’s some drama being played out in public with him and the Phillies. He’s 32, so there might be a lot more down seasons and bad feelings to come. So while in theory signing a guy like Harper, at the age he was, would be nice. But 10+ years is a long time and a lot of things can happen to make that end pretty badly for both parties. And if I’m the team I’m (drat) sure not trying to extend a guy with six years left and is going to be 33 next year.
But anyway, they didn’t sign him. This owner has never operated like that. I don’t suspect he will moving forward either.
You're reaching with this "controversy" business.
Harper didn't cause any controversy. The owner made a statement he clarified it and of course the east coast media with nothing better to do ran with it.
In any long term deal you always pay more for the backend. I didn't read anything yet about him asking for an extension or more money.
As for the owner never doing something well he's never ran the franchise in the ground before either but he has now and because he didn't make such a signing that helped lead to the shape the team is in now.
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 11:13 am
...acquire free agents and trade prospects for established veterans in order to compete for the playoffs every season.
And how has that worked out for them for the last decade?
The whole "continuing to throw good money after bad" approach is part of why the organization is in need of a rebuild.
We will see where payroll ends up but I believe there’s a good chance that Arenado is moved. Sure we will eat some of that but I think he is gone. I think it’s better than 50/50 that Gray is moved with us eating some but not as much. I also think it’s a 30-40 percent chance that Contreras is moved. There will be a market for him but does he want to leave.
If the Cardinals do move all three, there’s a decent chance that our payroll will come in under 100 million dollars next year. The Cardinals can call it a rebuild, a reset or whatever term they want but this is about BDW and his payroll restrictions. My only hope is that Bloom and company can convince BDW to try another tact. It’s hard watching mediocre baseball with a stadium that is drawing 15,000 a game. It’s hard for other teams to come in here and see where Cardinals baseball has fallen to. I’m pretty sure that the Arenado and Goldy trades don’t happen under current conditions.
