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ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:30 pm

Mr Buttercup wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:19 pm Fangraphs has 7 Cardinals in the top 100

9 JJ Wetherholt
19 Liam Doyle
40 Leonardo Bernal
71 Rainiel Rodriguez
77 Jimmy Crooks
83 Quinn Mathews
87 Tink Hence

I hope they are right. But, it is far from certain that either Bernal or Crooks are more than JAGs. Mathews needs to demonstrate control and health. Hence health. Baez who is not ranked is my great hope. But, like Gorman, he needs to demonstrate he can make contact at the higher levels.

I also asked on the Monday chat about the three Springfield starters, Henderson, Hansen and Mautz. The answer was quite discouraging, Henderson is back of the rotation and the other 2 are bullpen and may not even be protected this year from the rule 5 draft.

2026 will be another runway year. Perhaps all of the prospects listed above, except Rodriguez get at least a cup of coffee in the majors next year. That should give us at least an idea of where we stand. But, I have a hard time getting excited about hitters who hit sub 800 OPS in the minors. I also have a hard time getting excited about pitchers who either can't stay healthy or they walk 70 guys in 94 innings in the minors. Numbers and health tend to deteriorate in the majors, not improve.

Zac Gallen was the Cardinals #24 prospect in 2017. I wouldn't count out Mautz. He's talented.

For instance, when we talk about a prospect from Tampa Bay, often we assume they are good because of where they come from

As we should. Teams with legitimate track records should be given the benefit of the doubt.

I'm curious to see how TB's abilities to recognize and develop new talent hold up with new ownership in place.

riff raff wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 15:15 pm That Bloom sure works fast

He doesn’t exactly stir his tea with it, foes he?

Cranny wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:39 pm

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:30 pm

Mr Buttercup wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:19 pm Fangraphs has 7 Cardinals in the top 100

9 JJ Wetherholt
19 Liam Doyle
40 Leonardo Bernal
71 Rainiel Rodriguez
77 Jimmy Crooks
83 Quinn Mathews
87 Tink Hence

I hope they are right. But, it is far from certain that either Bernal or Crooks are more than JAGs. Mathews needs to demonstrate control and health. Hence health. Baez who is not ranked is my great hope. But, like Gorman, he needs to demonstrate he can make contact at the higher levels.

I also asked on the Monday chat about the three Springfield starters, Henderson, Hansen and Mautz. The answer was quite discouraging, Henderson is back of the rotation and the other 2 are bullpen and may not even be protected this year from the rule 5 draft.

2026 will be another runway year. Perhaps all of the prospects listed above, except Rodriguez get at least a cup of coffee in the majors next year. That should give us at least an idea of where we stand. But, I have a hard time getting excited about hitters who hit sub 800 OPS in the minors. I also have a hard time getting excited about pitchers who either can't stay healthy or they walk 70 guys in 94 innings in the minors. Numbers and health tend to deteriorate in the majors, not improve.

Zac Gallen was the Cardinals #24 prospect in 2017. I wouldn't count out Mautz. He's talented.

And every 13th round draft pick will be the next Albert Pujols! Your exclamations about bunches of prospects know no bounds.

NYCardsFan wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:33 pm #19 for Doyle at this point strikes me as a bit aggressive. Maybe wait until he develops at least one quality secondary pitch?

I read a little while back that his secondary pitches are honestly not as bad as they were made out to be. That he just didn’t throw them enough because he didn’t have to because his fastball was so ridiculously dominant in college. If true, That’s a simple fix as he makes his way through the minors.

icon wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:24 pm

Mr Buttercup wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:19 pm Fangraphs has 7 Cardinals in the top 100

9 JJ Wetherholt
19 Liam Doyle
40 Leonardo Bernal
71 Rainiel Rodriguez
77 Jimmy Crooks
83 Quinn Mathews
87 Tink Hence

Put me in the camp of I'll believe it when I see it after the flops of Carlson, Gorman and Walker.

Exactly. This is nothing but a guestimation.

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 21:07 pm

icon wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:24 pm

Mr Buttercup wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:19 pm Fangraphs has 7 Cardinals in the top 100

9 JJ Wetherholt
19 Liam Doyle
40 Leonardo Bernal
71 Rainiel Rodriguez
77 Jimmy Crooks
83 Quinn Mathews
87 Tink Hence

Put me in the camp of I'll believe it when I see it after the flops of Carlson, Gorman and Walker.

Exactly. This is nothing but a guestimation.

A revamped and updated farm system with a POBO that actually cares and has a proven track record in farm development is reason for optimism with this new wave of players.

Banner29 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 20:55 pm

NYCardsFan wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:33 pm #19 for Doyle at this point strikes me as a bit aggressive. Maybe wait until he develops at least one quality secondary pitch?

I read a little while back that his secondary pitches are honestly not as bad as they were made out to be. That he just didn’t throw them enough because he didn’t have to because his fastball was so ridiculously dominant in college. If true, That’s a simple fix as he makes his way through the minors.

I've read the same.

Cranny wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:39 pm

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:30 pm

Mr Buttercup wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:19 pm Fangraphs has 7 Cardinals in the top 100

9 JJ Wetherholt
19 Liam Doyle
40 Leonardo Bernal
71 Rainiel Rodriguez
77 Jimmy Crooks
83 Quinn Mathews
87 Tink Hence

I hope they are right. But, it is far from certain that either Bernal or Crooks are more than JAGs. Mathews needs to demonstrate control and health. Hence health. Baez who is not ranked is my great hope. But, like Gorman, he needs to demonstrate he can make contact at the higher levels.

I also asked on the Monday chat about the three Springfield starters, Henderson, Hansen and Mautz. The answer was quite discouraging, Henderson is back of the rotation and the other 2 are bullpen and may not even be protected this year from the rule 5 draft.

2026 will be another runway year. Perhaps all of the prospects listed above, except Rodriguez get at least a cup of coffee in the majors next year. That should give us at least an idea of where we stand. But, I have a hard time getting excited about hitters who hit sub 800 OPS in the minors. I also have a hard time getting excited about pitchers who either can't stay healthy or they walk 70 guys in 94 innings in the minors. Numbers and health tend to deteriorate in the majors, not improve.

Zac Gallen was the Cardinals #24 prospect in 2017. I wouldn't count out Mautz. He's talented.

Figured the Baseball Writer for the Post should know more than me. I hope these guys are good. I think they have a couple of high upside with lower floors in the Baez boys. They also seem to have a lot of pitchers who are targeted as back of the rotation starters and not front of the rotation guys. Perhaps we get a surprise to the upside. All three guys in Springfield had good results. We will see what they do in Memphis in 2026. What they are really missing are high upside OFs and high upside pitchers. Perhaps Bloom can help change that this offseason. But, it seems to be a multi year project.

icon wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:24 pm

Mr Buttercup wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:19 pm Fangraphs has 7 Cardinals in the top 100

9 JJ Wetherholt
19 Liam Doyle
40 Leonardo Bernal
71 Rainiel Rodriguez
77 Jimmy Crooks
83 Quinn Mathews
87 Tink Hence

Put me in the camp of I'll believe it when I see it after the flops of Carlson, Gorman and Walker.

+1
And don't forget Alex Reyes.

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 21:46 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:39 pm

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:30 pm

Mr Buttercup wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:19 pm Fangraphs has 7 Cardinals in the top 100

9 JJ Wetherholt
19 Liam Doyle
40 Leonardo Bernal
71 Rainiel Rodriguez
77 Jimmy Crooks
83 Quinn Mathews
87 Tink Hence

I hope they are right. But, it is far from certain that either Bernal or Crooks are more than JAGs. Mathews needs to demonstrate control and health. Hence health. Baez who is not ranked is my great hope. But, like Gorman, he needs to demonstrate he can make contact at the higher levels.

I also asked on the Monday chat about the three Springfield starters, Henderson, Hansen and Mautz. The answer was quite discouraging, Henderson is back of the rotation and the other 2 are bullpen and may not even be protected this year from the rule 5 draft.

2026 will be another runway year. Perhaps all of the prospects listed above, except Rodriguez get at least a cup of coffee in the majors next year. That should give us at least an idea of where we stand. But, I have a hard time getting excited about hitters who hit sub 800 OPS in the minors. I also have a hard time getting excited about pitchers who either can't stay healthy or they walk 70 guys in 94 innings in the minors. Numbers and health tend to deteriorate in the majors, not improve.

Zac Gallen was the Cardinals #24 prospect in 2017. I wouldn't count out Mautz. He's talented.

Figured the Baseball Writer for the Post should know more than me. I hope these guys are good. I think they have a couple of high upside with lower floors in the Baez boys. They also seem to have a lot of pitchers who are targeted as back of the rotation starters and not front of the rotation guys. Perhaps we get a surprise to the upside. All three guys in Springfield had good results. We will see what they do in Memphis in 2026. What they are really missing are high upside OFs and high upside pitchers. Perhaps Bloom can help change that this offseason. But, it seems to be a multi year project.

I was surprised on the prognostication for Henderson. Dan Guerrero has more and better connections than most of us combined - and I'm splitting hairs here - but Ixan seems like a mid-rotation guy. Not an ace. But a No. 5 seems light. I'm meh on Hansen, but Mautz did a lot to raise his stock this summer. We shall see.

CardsBest wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 21:52 pm

icon wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:24 pm

Mr Buttercup wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:19 pm Fangraphs has 7 Cardinals in the top 100

9 JJ Wetherholt
19 Liam Doyle
40 Leonardo Bernal
71 Rainiel Rodriguez
77 Jimmy Crooks
83 Quinn Mathews
87 Tink Hence

Put me in the camp of I'll believe it when I see it after the flops of Carlson, Gorman and Walker.

+1
And don't forget Alex Reyes.

Most fail in every system.
Dodgers included.

Hopefully a few on the list do come through along with a few not on this list.
The Cardinals are due for a couple.

Banner29 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 20:55 pm

NYCardsFan wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:33 pm #19 for Doyle at this point strikes me as a bit aggressive. Maybe wait until he develops at least one quality secondary pitch?

I read a little while back that his secondary pitches are honestly not as bad as they were made out to be. That he just didn’t throw them enough because he didn’t have to because his fastball was so ridiculously dominant in college. If true, That’s a simple fix as he makes his way through the minors.

The ole “simple fix” nothing to worry about folks

Im optimistic Bloom can bolster the farm. But not sure im buying a jump to #1 farm system this fast.

Mr Buttercup wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 16:19 pm Fangraphs has 7 Cardinals in the top 100

9 JJ Wetherholt
19 Liam Doyle
40 Leonardo Bernal
71 Rainiel Rodriguez
77 Jimmy Crooks
83 Quinn Mathews
87 Tink Hence

Quinn Mathews and Tink Hence took steps backward due to injury this year. After return, Mathews lost a couple of ticks on his fastball.

Crooks is borderline top 100 at best. Thats 3 catchers in that list.

The Cardinals do not have the top farm system in the MLB. They will be doing good to be in the top 10. That's if other teams ahead of them graduated

Think how great we will be next year
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Here's a breakdown of how these platforms compare across key dimensions:

Focus Areas & Data Coverage
Platform Primary Focus Data Sources & Strengths
FanGraphs Advanced stats, projections, fantasy tools, player evaluation Offers fWAR, ZiPS projections, deep sabermetric analysis FanGraphs Baseball Reddit
Baseball Savant Statcast data: exit velocity, launch angle, sprint speed, pitch tracking Powered by MLB’s Statcast system; ideal for visualizing player movement and batted ball data Baseball Savant texastechbaseball.com
Baseball Reference Historical stats, traditional metrics, player comparisons Comprehensive historical database; uses rWAR; great for quick lookups and legacy stats Baseball-Reference.com Reddit
Brooks Baseball Pitch-level data: velocity, movement, release point, pitch usage Uses Pitch Info classification; detailed pitch charts and splits Baseball Fever Reddit
WAR Differences
FanGraphs (fWAR): Uses FIP-based pitching metrics and UZR for defense.
Baseball Reference (rWAR): Uses RA9-based pitching and DRS for defense.
These differences lead to variations in WAR values across the platforms Reddit Baseball-Reference.com.
Best Use Cases
FanGraphs: Ideal for fantasy baseball, player projections, and sabermetric deep dives.
Baseball Savant: Best for visualizing Statcast data like sprint speed, barrel rate, and pitch movement.
Baseball Reference: Great for historical comparisons, career stats, and quick player lookups.
Brooks Baseball: Preferred by analysts for pitch-by-pitch breakdowns and scouting reports.
Pitch Data Nuances
Brooks Baseball and FanGraphs both use Pitch Info, but classification methods differ slightly.
Baseball Savant uses MLB’s Statcast with Hawkeye tracking, offering more granular data but sometimes inconsistent classifications Baseball Fever Reddit.