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Re: The Pulling of a Hot Starting Pitcher
Posted: 14 Oct 2025 10:10 am
by Carp4Cy
rockondlouie wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 08:56 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 08:51 am
rockondlouie wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 08:43 am
Insane to pull a pitcher of T. Skubal or B. Snell's pedigree (CY Young award winners in their prime) when they're cruising, especially when you have a cr a ppy bullpen like the Dodgers.
Don’t forget the pulling of Q. It goes on that list. Again random occurrences, but my point is, a manager should have a feel. For the rate instances they pull a hot starter, occasionally it back fires.
Oh I'll never get over that stupid move BDog, why I knew immediately (coupled w/his mis-management of R. Helsey in the same series) Oli was going to be an inferior Manager.
My theory on playoff experience for the roster extends to managers too. Of course, if you are dumb enough as a manager, you might only get 1 or 2 chances in the playoffs and never realize that critical mass of experience needed to become a good playoff manager. And you might never have it in you to begin with, which will also prevent you from getting that experience.
Re: The Pulling of a Hot Starting Pitcher
Posted: 14 Oct 2025 11:51 am
by Red7
Dave Roberts would have made the exact same move. No. Longer. The. Manager’s. Call.
Re: The Pulling of a Hot Starting Pitcher
Posted: 14 Oct 2025 12:29 pm
by ramfandan
Noticed DeRosa on MLB Central said he would have sent Snell out for 9th . While there can be arguments one way or the other , I think in this instance there was also something else to factor in the decision which leads to me to keeping Snell in there.
With being only the 2nd guy ever to motor thru 24 batters in 8 innings (the minimum ..only Don Larsen did that in his 1956 perfect WS game ) , if Roberts loses that game last night, his entire team could be very demoralized for the next games.
It would have been a 'gift' to the Brewers who never touched Snell the entire evening and then to be down 1 game to 0 , oh boy very bad psychologically.
Re: The Pulling of a Hot Starting Pitcher
Posted: 14 Oct 2025 13:25 pm
by ilcubuffs
Today's MLB SP attempts to pitch 5 innings and struggles to finish 6 during the regular season. Finish 7 innings and fans want to throw a parade.
You would think that the Dodgers catcher, Smith, would have been critical in the decision. Do not see much on his take of the situation. Polar opposite of this weekends NFL and college football where players are dissing coaches and vice versa.
Only reason I can think of is Roberts understanding Snell injury history. Pitched 11 regular season games. Missed April 2 - August 2.
Regular Season
1 game - 4 inning
5 games- 5 inning
3 games - 5 inning
2 games - 7 inning
Postseason: 1 game ea 6, 7, and 8 innings. 3 games in 2025 of +100 pitches. (Incl last nite Brewer game)
Re: The Pulling of a Hot Starting Pitcher
Posted: 14 Oct 2025 14:23 pm
by ramfandan
would have enjoyed after blowing that game in the 9th Roberts justifying to Dodger fanbase why it was wise to remove Snell aftet allowing one hit with no walks.
Yes, Suzuki was well rested and deemed ready but
You never know how nervous he may be since playoff game and if he may be but wild do to nerves.
The starter has displayed neither
Re: The Pulling of a Hot Starting Pitcher
Posted: 14 Oct 2025 14:48 pm
by blackinkbiz
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 08:51 am
rockondlouie wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 08:43 am
Insane to pull a pitcher of T. Skubal or B. Snell's pedigree (CY Young award winners in their prime) when they're cruising, especially when you have a cr a ppy bullpen like the Dodgers.
Don’t forget the pulling of Q. It goes on that list. Again random occurrences, but my point is, a manager should have a feel. For the rate instances they pull a hot starter, occasionally it back fires.
Oliver Marmol is too smart for "feelings." He has a script. Seriously, what a friggin' idiot. It doesn't help that his entire managing tenure has gone downhill since the 6th inning of Game 1 against the Phillies in '22, so there's really nothing else to focus on. That has to be one of the dumbest management decisions in postseason history. Q was cruising just as much as Snell. You'd think these idiots would have learned after the Skubal debacle a couple years prior.
Of course, he followed it with the encore of trying to not only get 2 innings from a 1-inning closer, but tried doing so when said closer had jammed a throwing finger just 72 hours before. And then he has the audacity to say "everything went according to script until that last inning," which makes it 1000x worse, because he didn't even believe he'd made a mistake.
Anyways, yeah, Snell showed no signs of slowing down. Roberts and the Dodgers got real lucky last night that didn't come back to bite them.
Re: The Pulling of a Hot Starting Pitcher
Posted: 19 Oct 2025 06:31 am
by sikeston bulldog2
Happened again in mariners game. Pulled a hot starter at 59 pitchers, and promptly gave up the leave.
Let the hot horse ride.
Re: The Pulling of a Hot Starting Pitcher
Posted: 19 Oct 2025 07:24 am
by ramfandan
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑19 Oct 2025 06:31 am
Happened again in mariners game. Pulled a hot starter at 59 pitchers, and promptly gave up the leave.
Let the hot horse ride.
Yes, was thinking about that just like you . I know there are factors both ways . Going back to the Snell situation , the guy not only had the 1 hitter but the fact he walked NOBODY is important to me . You can have all the faith in the bullpen closer but you just never know when he comes in will he not have his sharp command and walk a guy or two and get you in big trouble then.
That's what happened in Brewers game . Walks and Dodgers were so lucky when Turang with bases loaded jumped back from ball about to hit him and tie the game at 2-2. Then bases loaded and possibly a walk-off.
As others have said, in the Snell situation, I send him out and only go to the pen if he is in trouble. That's much different than pulling the starter in the 9th in a game where he already has give up a few runs and maybe walked some batters too .
As Cardinal fans, we saw Helsley in his final year here come in and walk some guys in quite a few instances and he was our top closer too. No more !
Re: The Pulling of a Hot Starting Pitcher
Posted: 19 Oct 2025 07:29 am
by sikeston bulldog2
ramfandan wrote: ↑19 Oct 2025 07:24 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑19 Oct 2025 06:31 am
Happened again in mariners game. Pulled a hot starter at 59 pitchers, and promptly gave up the leave.
Let the hot horse ride.
Yes, was thinking about that just like you . I know there are factors both ways . Going back to the Snell situation , the guy not only had the 1 hitter but the fact he walked NOBODY is important to me . You can have all the faith in the bullpen closer but you just never know when he comes in will he not have his sharp command and walk a guy or two and get you in big trouble then.
That's what happened in Brewers game . Walks and Dodgers were so lucky when Turang with bases loaded jumped back from ball about to hit him and tie the game at 2-2. Then bases loaded and possibly a walk-off.
As others have said, in the Snell situation, I send him out and only go to the pen if he is in trouble. That's much different than pulling the starter in the 9th in a game where he already has give up a few runs and maybe walked some batters too .
As Cardinal fans, we saw Helsley in his final year here come in and walk some guys in quite a few instances and he was our top closer too. No more !
The drama involved in a pitching change. Manager slow walk. Head down. Almost theatrical.
The move to remove Greene the other night seemed scripted. I’m like you. No way a reliever gives you what these starters provided. I stay with the horse.
Re: The Pulling of a Hot Starting Pitcher
Posted: 19 Oct 2025 08:11 am
by Goldfan
Especially in the PS…..its the stupidest move a manager could make
Re: The Pulling of a Hot Starting Pitcher
Posted: 19 Oct 2025 08:50 am
by Melville
It is a simple calculation.
Trust the dominant performance already taking place.
Or gamble on someone coming in from the bullpen, not knowing what you are going to get from one day to the next.
The correct answer is literally before a manager's eyes.
And yet they get it wrong.
Re: The Pulling of a Hot Starting Pitcher
Posted: 19 Oct 2025 12:52 pm
by sikeston bulldog2
Melville wrote: ↑19 Oct 2025 08:50 am
It is a simple calculation.
Trust the dominant performance already taking place.
Or gamble on someone coming in from the bullpen, not knowing what you are going to get from one day to the next.
The correct answer is literally before a manager's eyes.
And yet they get it wrong.
I agree.
Re: The Pulling of a Hot Starting Pitcher
Posted: 19 Oct 2025 13:07 pm
by Gob
What does “game cold” mean and do we know it’s disadvantageous?
Re: The Pulling of a Hot Starting Pitcher
Posted: 19 Oct 2025 13:35 pm
by sikeston bulldog2
Gob wrote: ↑19 Oct 2025 13:07 pm
What does “game cold” mean and do we know it’s disadvantageous?
Similar to game face. Game cold is where you have not been physically or mentally in the game.
A starter going 8 has a particular mindset for that evenings success. To expect that level of efficiency from a reliever is a stretch.
That’s it.
Re: The Pulling of a Hot Starting Pitcher
Posted: 19 Oct 2025 16:17 pm
by Gob
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑19 Oct 2025 13:35 pm
Gob wrote: ↑19 Oct 2025 13:07 pm
What does “game cold” mean and do we know it’s disadvantageous?
Similar to game face. Game cold is where you have not been physically or mentally in the game.
A starter going 8 has a particular mindset for that evenings success. To expect that level of efficiency from a reliever is a stretch.
That’s it.
Ok so we know a reliever hasn’t been physically in the game. How do you know if a reliever has been mentally in the game?
Re: The Pulling of a Hot Starting Pitcher
Posted: 19 Oct 2025 16:46 pm
by sikeston bulldog2
Gob wrote: ↑19 Oct 2025 16:17 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑19 Oct 2025 13:35 pm
Gob wrote: ↑19 Oct 2025 13:07 pm
What does “game cold” mean and do we know it’s disadvantageous?
Similar to game face. Game cold is where you have not been physically or mentally in the game.
A starter going 8 has a particular mindset for that evenings success. To expect that level of efficiency from a reliever is a stretch.
That’s it.
Ok so we know a reliever hasn’t been physically in the game. How do you know if a reliever has been mentally in the game?
I guess we don’t. I’d think being in the game would involve a deeper or different mental make up than just sitting or warming up.