Very good pitching is stil the way to go

[rockondlouie]

I'm a firm believer you PAY via free agency for hitters, develop starting pitching.

Given the unpredictability of pitchers injuries signing a starter to a huge contract can handicap a team like the Cardinals payroll if the deal goes bad.

I think C. Bloom will draft/develop power pitching, trade or sign hitters to supplement the areas that can't be filled from within.

[ramfandan]

Having at least 2 very good starters and decent 3 and 4 starters (which they already have) along with a good setup guy and closer is the quickest way to be a real contender.
I don't see DeWitt spending for a couple upper tier starters but a team like the cardinals could be transformed quickly into a honest contender with them.

I don't see DeWitt spending for the couple upper tier starters either . What I do see is Director of Pitching Matt Pierpont, former Seattle , bringing along starters of our farm system. We have McGreevy currently , Liam Doyle (our No. 1 pick last year ) , this year's Double A starting and winning pitcher in Texas League title game Brycen Mautz 8-3 2.85 ERA who will be in Memphis in 2026 . We also have Matthews in our farm system too.
Those are the guys that will be our upcoming pitchers as Bloom rebuilds the team. After these next two years, then I could see Bloom adding a proven vet starter to that core.

[Carp4Cy]

Bats for the season, arms for the playoffs.

I hadn’t really heard it put that way, and I can’t say I don’t buy into the premise, but wouldn’t the good arms have to already be around for the regular season?

Unless you’re talking about being very aggressive at the deadline in adding arms, but no guarantees you’ll get your guys.

It’s is another way of saying that pitching will eventually outplay hitting. I say- offense wins games, defense wins championships. Same theory.

Trouble is the curve of elite pitchers that can shutdown any hitter is a lot steeper with a shorter tail than is the curve of elite/very good hitters. Meaning 2019 Washington was going to beat anyone with that pitching staff when they got hot, and there wasn't a long list of pitching alternates in MLB who could have competed head to head.

[Clubmaker2]

is that list more about not signing old, or troubled pitchers? Verlander was 40 years old with the Mets. Verlander was more help for Houston years earlier..

[Carp4Cy]

I'm a firm believer you PAY via free agency for hitters, develop starting pitching.

Given the unpredictability of pitchers injuries signing a starter to a huge contract can handicap a team like the Cardinals payroll if the deal goes bad.

I think C. Bloom will draft/develop power pitching, trade or sign hitters to supplement the areas that can't be filled from within.

The Nats signing Scherzer for TOP $$$ worked out well. Oftentimes a pitchers most dominant playoff performances come years after they have reached free agency. Experience matters in the playoffs.

[CorneliusWolfe]

Bats for the season, arms for the playoffs.

I hadn’t really heard it put that way, and I can’t say I don’t buy into the premise, but wouldn’t the good arms have to already be around for the regular season?

Unless you’re talking about being very aggressive at the deadline in adding arms, but no guarantees you’ll get your guys.

It’s is another way of saying that pitching will eventually outplay hitting. I say- offense wins games, defense wins championships. Same theory.

Got it. Seems obvious now that you point it out, guess it went over my head in first read.

[Cusecards]

Having at least 2 very good starters and decent 3 and 4 starters (which they already have) along with a good setup guy and closer is the quickest way to be a real contender.
I don't see DeWitt spending for a couple upper tier starters but a team like the cardinals could be transformed quickly into a honest contender with them.

I don't see DeWitt spending for the couple upper tier starters either . What I do see is Director of Pitching Matt Pierpont, former Seattle , bringing along starters of our farm system. We have McGreevy currently , Liam Doyle (our No. 1 pick last year ) , this year's Double A starting and winning pitcher in Texas League title game Brycen Mautz 8-3 2.85 ERA who will be in Memphis in 2026 . We also have Matthews in our farm system too.
Those are the guys that will be our upcoming pitchers as Bloom rebuilds the team. After these next two years, then I could see Bloom adding a proven vet starter to that core.

+1

[Youboughtit]

Bats for the season, arms for the playoffs.

I hadn’t really heard it put that way, and I can’t say I don’t buy into the premise, but wouldn’t the good arms have to already be around for the regular season?

Unless you’re talking about being very aggressive at the deadline in adding arms, but no guarantees you’ll get your guys.

It’s is another way of saying that pitching will eventually outplay hitting. I say- offense wins games, defense wins championships. Same theory.

Playoff baseball is a different game. Hot hitting involves the baseball Gods. They're really hard to beat. But if they're off doing something else, good pitching and defense seems to win.

But not at the complete neglect of offense. Still has to be better than leauge average. Yea a top 5 pitching, top 5 defense, and a top 15 offense may get lucky and win a WS but not if the offensive production is 29-30 like the current Cardinals roster

[2ninr]

Bats for the season, arms for the playoffs.

I hadn’t really heard it put that way, and I can’t say I don’t buy into the premise, but wouldn’t the good arms have to already be around for the regular season?

Unless you’re talking about being very aggressive at the deadline in adding arms, but no guarantees you’ll get your guys.

It’s is another way of saying that pitching will eventually outplay hitting. I say- offense wins games, defense wins championships. Same theory.

Playoff baseball is a different game. Hot hitting involves the baseball Gods. They're really hard to beat. But if they're off doing something else, good pitching and defense seems to win.

But not at the complete neglect of offense. Still has to be better than leauge average. Yea a top 5 pitching, top 5 defense, and a top 15 offense may get lucky and win a WS but not if the offensive production is 29-30 like the current Cardinals roster

We had 3 guys that didn't hit as well as Wainright. That's a problem not even the baseball Gods can fix.

[Youboughtit]

Bats for the season, arms for the playoffs.

I hadn’t really heard it put that way, and I can’t say I don’t buy into the premise, but wouldn’t the good arms have to already be around for the regular season?

Unless you’re talking about being very aggressive at the deadline in adding arms, but no guarantees you’ll get your guys.

It’s is another way of saying that pitching will eventually outplay hitting. I say- offense wins games, defense wins championships. Same theory.

Playoff baseball is a different game. Hot hitting involves the baseball Gods. They're really hard to beat. But if they're off doing something else, good pitching and defense seems to win.

But not at the complete neglect of offense. Still has to be better than leauge average. Yea a top 5 pitching, top 5 defense, and a top 15 offense may get lucky and win a WS but not if the offensive production is 29-30 like the current Cardinals roster

We had 3 guys that didn't hit as well as Wainright. That's a problem not even the baseball Gods can fix.

Hererra/Crooks will replace Pages and Wetherholt will help but they have do add legit power somewhere and I would have Scott as a 4th OF. Payrol is what’s holding this roster back. Until they can spend it’s impossible to see a WS contenting formula

[2ninr]

Bats for the season, arms for the playoffs.

I hadn’t really heard it put that way, and I can’t say I don’t buy into the premise, but wouldn’t the good arms have to already be around for the regular season?

Unless you’re talking about being very aggressive at the deadline in adding arms, but no guarantees you’ll get your guys.

It’s is another way of saying that pitching will eventually outplay hitting. I say- offense wins games, defense wins championships. Same theory.

Playoff baseball is a different game. Hot hitting involves the baseball Gods. They're really hard to beat. But if they're off doing something else, good pitching and defense seems to win.

But not at the complete neglect of offense. Still has to be better than leauge average. Yea a top 5 pitching, top 5 defense, and a top 15 offense may get lucky and win a WS but not if the offensive production is 29-30 like the current Cardinals roster

We had 3 guys that didn't hit as well as Wainright. That's a problem not even the baseball Gods can fix.

Hererra/Crooks will replace Pages and Wetherholt will help but they have do add legit power somewhere and I would have Scott as a 4th OF. Payrol is what’s holding this roster back. Until they can spend it’s impossible to see a WS contenting formula

I agree 100%. That $ has to be spent strategically like we used to. First we have to get back to developing most of our pitching. I have guarded optimism about some of the pitching in the system right now. We have to get decent prospects for the guys we move. But you can't be paying for pitching the way we have been. It doesn't leave money to plug those holes. Your roster winds up how it is right now.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Bats for the season, arms for the playoffs.

I hadn’t really heard it put that way, and I can’t say I don’t buy into the premise, but wouldn’t the good arms have to already be around for the regular season?

Unless you’re talking about being very aggressive at the deadline in adding arms, but no guarantees you’ll get your guys.

It’s is another way of saying that pitching will eventually outplay hitting. I say- offense wins games, defense wins championships. Same theory.

Playoff baseball is a different game. Hot hitting involves the baseball Gods. They're really hard to beat. But if they're off doing something else, good pitching and defense seems to win.

But not at the complete neglect of offense. Still has to be better than leauge average. Yea a top 5 pitching, top 5 defense, and a top 15 offense may get lucky and win a WS but not if the offensive production is 29-30 like the current Cardinals roster

We had 3 guys that didn't hit as well as Wainright. That's a problem not even the baseball Gods can fix.

Hererra/Crooks will replace Pages and Wetherholt will help but they have do add legit power somewhere and I would have Scott as a 4th OF. Payrol is what’s holding this roster back. Until they can spend it’s impossible to see a WS contenting formula

I agree 100%. That $ has to be spent strategically like we used to. First we have to get back to developing most of our pitching. I have guarded optimism about some of the pitching in the system right now. We have to get decent prospects for the guys we move. But you can't be paying for pitching the way we have been. It doesn't leave money to plug those holes. Your roster winds up how it is right now.

It’s very simple. If you spend they will come. The more you get to come the more that want to. Gotta establish a culture.

We don’t have that. We don’t have a star. We don’t have a face of the franchise.

Simple.

[ecleme22]

Having at least 2 very good starters and decent 3 and 4 starters (which they already have) along with a good setup guy and closer is the quickest way to be a real contender.
I don't see DeWitt spending for a couple upper tier starters but a team like the cardinals could be transformed quickly into a honest contender with them.

Bloom “we are trying to accumulate, accumulate prospects.”

Some CTers: “I wonda if DeWitt will ever spend for two top tier starters…”

[TXCardsFanX]

Max Fried is a great pitcher, but he just got absolutely demolished by the Blue Jays last night. He was 19-5 with a 2.86 ERA this season & pitched 6.1 shutout innings against Boston last week.
I guess my point is, the NYY had of top 5 AL pitcher and just got bombed.

Both matter, of course!

I'd also argue defense is extremely underrated. Toronto has phenomenal defense at catcher and CF. The Yankees have an average defense, but are negative in both of those positions.

[rockondlouie]

I'm a firm believer you PAY via free agency for hitters, develop starting pitching.

Given the unpredictability of pitchers injuries signing a starter to a huge contract can handicap a team like the Cardinals payroll if the deal goes bad.

I think C. Bloom will draft/develop power pitching, trade or sign hitters to supplement the areas that can't be filled from within.

The Nats signing Scherzer for TOP $$$ worked out well. Oftentimes a pitchers most dominant playoff performances come years after they have reached free agency. Experience matters in the playoffs.

And I can name a dozen high priced starter deals that didn't workout.

But we never have to worry about that happening here Carp since BDWJr will never, ever win a bidding war for a true ACE in FA.

(And he's admitted his worst non-move was when he passed on Max the first time he was a FA and wanted to come home)

[Youboughtit]

Bats for the season, arms for the playoffs.

I hadn’t really heard it put that way, and I can’t say I don’t buy into the premise, but wouldn’t the good arms have to already be around for the regular season?

Unless you’re talking about being very aggressive at the deadline in adding arms, but no guarantees you’ll get your guys.

It’s is another way of saying that pitching will eventually outplay hitting. I say- offense wins games, defense wins championships. Same theory.

Playoff baseball is a different game. Hot hitting involves the baseball Gods. They're really hard to beat. But if they're off doing something else, good pitching and defense seems to win.

But not at the complete neglect of offense. Still has to be better than leauge average. Yea a top 5 pitching, top 5 defense, and a top 15 offense may get lucky and win a WS but not if the offensive production is 29-30 like the current Cardinals roster

We had 3 guys that didn't hit as well as Wainright. That's a problem not even the baseball Gods can fix.

Hererra/Crooks will replace Pages and Wetherholt will help but they have do add legit power somewhere and I would have Scott as a 4th OF. Payrol is what’s holding this roster back. Until they can spend it’s impossible to see a WS contenting formula

I agree 100%. That $ has to be spent strategically like we used to. First we have to get back to developing most of our pitching. I have guarded optimism about some of the pitching in the system right now. We have to get decent prospects for the guys we move. But you can't be paying for pitching the way we have been. It doesn't leave money to plug those holes. Your roster winds up how it is right now.

Smart spending is important but the payroll needs to go back to the 2006-2011 level it top 11 which is over $200m currently. Otherwise they will fall short