Goldfan wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 11:04 am
Strummer Jones wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 10:59 am
Goldfan wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 10:56 am
Given the response here on CT it would appear that BDW has a captured base and he has to do nothing to keep your eyeballs. Perhaps that’s part of the problem. Why spend money to keep fans if they’re going nowhere no matter the lethargy, ineptitude, and arrogance displayed by the ownership/FO
Braves have a bad season and their long time WS winning manager is out
Cards roll off another stinker….about same record as Braves…and their Oli stays, even though he is void of a Snitker pedigree
It's almost like Snitker had a way more talented team and had higher expectation than us yet they finished with a slightly worse W/L record.
Nah. That can't be it.
Sure, but one bad season after all that winning after being in the org for 40+yrs…….some owners want results and expect to win.
That isn’t the case here.
Why not just sweep the rug and get a clean slate…… Oli is a nobody and I’m sure he’s not making much money
But a bad season with WAY better talent.
You and I both know that Oli didn't have anyone coming through those doors like Acuna, Matt Olson, Chris Sale, Drake Baldwin, Sean Murphy, etc. In fact, on a positional breakdown by WAR on baseballreference.com.
C: 1.4 Pedro Page/3.3 Drake Baldwin. Sean Murphy also out WAR'd Pages by a significant margin.
1B: 2.6 Willson Contreras/6.1 Matt Olson
2B: 2.7 Brendan Donovan/2.2 Ozzie Albies--Hey look, we won one here!
SS: 2.2 Masyn Winn/0.6 Nick Allen--Another win!
3B: 1.3 Arenado/1.3 Austin Riley. I'm going to wager that most of Arenado's WAR came from defense.
LF: 1.3 Nootbaar/1.0 Jurickson Profar (but also .7 from Eli White--who played a lot of LF while Profar was suspended.)
CF: 2.2 VSII/ 2.1 Michael Harris. Though Harris was a superior hitter and probably equal on defense. I'm guessing Scott gets the edge based on stolen bases.
RF: -1.6 Jordan Walker/3.1 Acuna.
DH: 2.2 Ivan Herrera/1.6 Marcell Ozuna.
Cardinal WAR: 13 even. Atlanta WAR (and not counting Eli White): 21.5. If you add Alec Burleson, that bumps us to 14.8. If you use him in lieu of Jordan Walker, that puts us at 17.7. If you consider an average starting player to have a WAR of 2ish, that puts us around two average starting players behind Atlanta. Or one star player.
Let's look at starting pitching. I guess they ordered these pitchers by games started:
SP1: 1.4 Sonny Gray/-.4 Bryce Elder--okay, that looks good.
SP2: -1.3 Andre Pallante/3.9 Chris Sale--Oh no.
SP3:.3 Miles Mikolas/1 Spencer Strider
SP4: .9 Matthew Liberatore/1.4 Grant Holmes
SP5: -.1 Erick Fedde/2.2 Spencer Schwellenbach
SP6: .7 Michael McGreey/-.2 Joey Wentz
Cardinal SP WAR: 1.9. Wow. Braves SP WAR: 7.9. Our best--Gray--would've been, at best, the third starter in Atlanta. Maybe fourth, depending on how you want to cut it.
That's a big difference. Bullpen WAR comes out roughly even. So does bench WAR. But on the two areas that I think mean the most success in Major League Baseball, starting lineup and starting rotation, the Braves win, and it's not that close. Yet, they lost two more games than us. They hit better than us, and pitched better than us. And they still had a worse season. Oh, and they didn't have three teams in their division that made the play-offs like we did.
So what this tells me is that Oli, for his flaws, did a little bit more with a hell of a lot less than what Snitker had in a division that ended up being tougher than what Snitker had to face.
I'm not going to tell you that Marmol is a HoF manager. But the idea that he's some inept dunderhead is provably false. What this tells me is that we're still not putting enough fault on Mozeliak and DeWitt for how mediocre this team has been.
