Rooney on the Radio said he expects a lot of movement

[ScotchMIrish]

during the winter and 6 or 7 current minor leagues on the 26 man roster next season. This team was 11 games under .500 following the all star break. If they replace veterans with prospects and don't add a bunch of pitching we could be looking at a 100 lost team.

Houston lost 106, 107, and 111 games in three straight seasons (2011-2013), but then went to four World Series, winning two of them, in the next decade.

True and unlike most dump and rebuilds they seem to have maintained winning even after MLB cleaned house. Royals dumped and rebuilt. After 9 consecutive losing seasons they had 3 winning seasons including 2 world series appearances. Then 2 mediocre seasons and 2 100 loss seasons causing Yost to retire.

The difference is Houston is currently 6th in MLB payroll at $232 million. KC currently 18th at $136 million . $100 million can allow a team to keep the best prospects and acquire more via free agency.

Cardinals currently 20th in payroll at $130 million. Add $100 million in payroll and we are the Astros. Stay where we are and we are the Royals.

[Alex Reyes Cy Young]

during the winter and 6 or 7 current minor leagues on the 26 man roster next season. This team was 11 games under .500 following the all star break. If they replace veterans with prospects and don't add a bunch of pitching we could be looking at a 100 lost team.

Houston lost 106, 107, and 111 games in three straight seasons (2011-2013), but then went to four World Series, winning two of them, in the next decade.

True and unlike most dump and rebuilds they seem to have maintained winning even after MLB cleaned house. Royals dumped and rebuilt. After 9 consecutive losing seasons they had 3 winning seasons including 2 world series appearances. Then 2 mediocre seasons and 2 100 loss seasons causing Yost to retire.

The difference is Houston is currently 6th in MLB payroll at $232 million. KC currently 18th at $136 million . $100 million can allow a team to keep the best prospects and acquire more via free agency.

Cardinals currently 20th in payroll at $130 million. Add $100 million in payroll and we are the Astros. Stay where we are and we are the Royals.

I think you’ll see deeper cuts for the Cardinals for at least the next couple of years. It’s seems the III is in charge and if you trust his message he only spends what they make. I’ve heard this message from the Rays and Royals ownership ovwr the last few years. I truly believe the look and feel along with operating model will change dramatically.

Much much lower payrolls but where I remain positive is their ability to pluck talent from other teams and draft and develop. Along with setting up a real roster not the (bleep) we’ve been accustomed to lately.

It’s a hopeful mindset but I would rather remain optimistic and be wrong than be pessimistic and be right.

[mattmitchl44]

during the winter and 6 or 7 current minor leagues on the 26 man roster next season. This team was 11 games under .500 following the all star break. If they replace veterans with prospects and don't add a bunch of pitching we could be looking at a 100 lost team.

Houston lost 106, 107, and 111 games in three straight seasons (2011-2013), but then went to four World Series, winning two of them, in the next decade.

True and unlike most dump and rebuilds they seem to have maintained winning even after MLB cleaned house. Royals dumped and rebuilt. After 9 consecutive losing seasons they had 3 winning seasons including 2 world series appearances. Then 2 mediocre seasons and 2 100 loss seasons causing Yost to retire.

The difference is Houston is currently 6th in MLB payroll at $232 million. KC currently 18th at $136 million . $100 million can allow a team to keep the best prospects and acquire more via free agency.

Cardinals currently 20th in payroll at $130 million. Add $100 million in payroll and we are the Astros. Stay where we are and we are the Royals.

I agree that in the longer term the Cardinals will eventually have to come back up to a ML payroll of ~10th in order to sustain success after a rebuilding period.

[CCard]

during the winter and 6 or 7 current minor leagues on the 26 man roster next season. This team was 11 games under .500 following the all star break. If they replace veterans with prospects and don't add a bunch of pitching we could be looking at a 100 lost team.

Why would anyone plop down their hard earned cash to watch a team where ownership wasn't trying to win? You want to kill your fan base, that's the way to do it.

[ScotchMIrish]

during the winter and 6 or 7 current minor leagues on the 26 man roster next season. This team was 11 games under .500 following the all star break. If they replace veterans with prospects and don't add a bunch of pitching we could be looking at a 100 lost team.

Why would anyone plop down their hard earned cash to watch a team where ownership wasn't trying to win? You want to kill your fan base, that's the way to do it.

True but I would add why would anybody plop down MLB money to watch DH baseball? I can go to a high school game and see that.

[BrockFloodMaris]

I kind of expect a really bad record in 2026. If they bring Marmol back on his one remaining contract year, I will suspect a tanking season is in the plans.

If they part ways with Marmol, there might be hope for some spending and a decently competitive year.

If they extend Marmol this winter, I don't know what to expect.

Dewitt isn’t spending this offseason in my view. He is all in on trying to get a salary cap. He isn’t doing anything until he sees how that plays out.

I do think Marmol is back. I would be stunned if he is extended this off season. Not sure on a team pinching pennies on payroll that is not a contender there is a real reason to fire him and waste revenue paying two managers when that can be used to fix long term issues. If you are going to replace a manager, do it when his contract ends.

That's a good point - and MLB needs a salary cap even if it means a lockout and a lost season. It worked for the NHL and the Blues won a championship.

I was dead against a salary cap for years, but now am on board with it needs a cap and an extremely aggressive floor which pushes some bad owners to sell. Give Pit and Colorado a chance.

I would not mind losing game to a lock out if it results in a cap and floor. Don’t lock out if it isn’t going to lead to it.

My gut is the owners will buckle and there will never be a cap.

MLB should crunch the financials on small market teams before they get too aggressive on a floor. Some teams have poor attendance even when they win and a poor tv deal.

I don't have a strong opinion on this piece of the CBA, but I hear a lot of chatter about revenue sharing being the linchpin to making it all work.

[mattmitchl44]

during the winter and 6 or 7 current minor leagues on the 26 man roster next season. This team was 11 games under .500 following the all star break. If they replace veterans with prospects and don't add a bunch of pitching we could be looking at a 100 lost team.

Why would anyone plop down their hard earned cash to watch a team where ownership wasn't trying to win? You want to kill your fan base, that's the way to do it.

And the owners should expect that. Other teams that have gone down this path have seen temporary yearly attendance drops of 500,000 (Atlanta), 1,000,000 (Houston), or even 1,500,000 (Philadelphia). But the fans come right back when the team starts winning again.

[Bomber1]

during the winter and 6 or 7 current minor leagues on the 26 man roster next season. This team was 11 games under .500 following the all star break. If they replace veterans with prospects and don't add a bunch of pitching we could be looking at a 100 lost team.

They are not going to compete next year.

They are not going to lose 100 either.

[rockondlouie]

during the winter and 6 or 7 current minor leagues on the 26 man roster next season. This team was 11 games under .500 following the all star break. If they replace veterans with prospects and don't add a bunch of pitching we could be looking at a 100 lost team.

Houston lost 106, 107, and 111 games in three straight seasons (2011-2013), but then went to four World Series, winning two of them, in the next decade.

-Houston finally went to the WS after those 100+ loss seasons in 2017 and they had the 8th highest payroll in MLB.

Their next appearance in 2019 their payroll rose to #6 in MLB.

By 2021 when they went again, they had the 3rd highest payroll in MLB!

Thus proving it took them loads of payroll money to add quality players in order to reach the WS.

While they did have some homegrown players, they never would've made the WS w/o a MASSIVE increase in payroll.

That's why your example has Zero correlation whatsoever to the 2026 Cardinals.

Why?

Because BDWJr will never, ever have the 8th highest payroll in MLB, let alone the 6th or 3rd that it will take to build a WS roster.

If Rooney is right and they're "6 or 7 current minor leaguers" on the 2026 roster, then say hello to multiple 100 loss seasons w/no guarantee of success.

[mattmitchl44]

during the winter and 6 or 7 current minor leagues on the 26 man roster next season. This team was 11 games under .500 following the all star break. If they replace veterans with prospects and don't add a bunch of pitching we could be looking at a 100 lost team.

Houston lost 106, 107, and 111 games in three straight seasons (2011-2013), but then went to four World Series, winning two of them, in the next decade.

-Houston finally went to the WS after those 100+ loss seasons in 2017 and they had the 8th highest payroll in MLB.

Their next appearance in 2019 their payroll rose to #6 in MLB.

By 2021 when they went again, they had the 3rd highest payroll in MLB!

Thus proving it took them loads of payroll money to add quality players in order to reach the WS.

While they did have some homegrown players, they never would've made the WS w/o a MASSIVE increase in payroll.

That's why your example has Zero correlation whatsoever to the 2026 Cardinals.

Why?

Because BDWJr will never, ever have the 8th highest payroll in MLB, let alone the 6th or 3rd that it will take to build a WS roster.

If Rooney is right and they're "6 or 7 current minor leaguers" on the 2026 roster, then say hello to multiple 100 loss seasons w/no guarantee of success.

As I have said multiple times, I agree that the Cardinals will have to raise payroll back to about 10th to sustain success after they rebuild the depth of cost controlled young talent on the roster.

The fact that they will likely only get back to 10th and not higher makes what they are doing even more correct, not less. They need even a bit more young cost controlled talent than a Houston, Atlanta, or Philadelphia in order to have sustained success.

[rockondlouie]

during the winter and 6 or 7 current minor leagues on the 26 man roster next season. This team was 11 games under .500 following the all star break. If they replace veterans with prospects and don't add a bunch of pitching we could be looking at a 100 lost team.

Houston lost 106, 107, and 111 games in three straight seasons (2011-2013), but then went to four World Series, winning two of them, in the next decade.

-Houston finally went to the WS after those 100+ loss seasons in 2017 and they had the 8th highest payroll in MLB.

Their next appearance in 2019 their payroll rose to #6 in MLB.

By 2021 when they went again, they had the 3rd highest payroll in MLB!

Thus proving it took them loads of payroll money to add quality players in order to reach the WS.

While they did have some homegrown players, they never would've made the WS w/o a MASSIVE increase in payroll.

That's why your example has Zero correlation whatsoever to the 2026 Cardinals.

Why?

Because BDWJr will never, ever have the 8th highest payroll in MLB, let alone the 6th or 3rd that it will take to build a WS roster.

If Rooney is right and they're "6 or 7 current minor leaguers" on the 2026 roster, then say hello to multiple 100 loss seasons w/no guarantee of success.

As I have said multiple times, I agree that the Cardinals will have to raise payroll back to about 10th to sustain success after they rebuild the depth of cost controlled young talent on the roster.

The fact that they will likely only get back to 10th and not higher makes what they are doing even more correct, not less. They need even a bit more young cost controlled talent than a Houston, Atlanta, or Philadelphia in order to have sustained success.

Sadly matt I don't see BDWJr ever going back to that 10th spot which would require him to go well above $210+M, no way.

Even after Bloom stocks the system I don't think he ever tops $180M and that will take 3+M in attendance again.

I hope I'm wrong.

But the only way we ever get to your "10th" in payroll is if BDWJr sells.

JMO

[ScotchMIrish]

during the winter and 6 or 7 current minor leagues on the 26 man roster next season. This team was 11 games under .500 following the all star break. If they replace veterans with prospects and don't add a bunch of pitching we could be looking at a 100 lost team.

Houston lost 106, 107, and 111 games in three straight seasons (2011-2013), but then went to four World Series, winning two of them, in the next decade.

True and unlike most dump and rebuilds they seem to have maintained winning even after MLB cleaned house. Royals dumped and rebuilt. After 9 consecutive losing seasons they had 3 winning seasons including 2 world series appearances. Then 2 mediocre seasons and 2 100 loss seasons causing Yost to retire.

The difference is Houston is currently 6th in MLB payroll at $232 million. KC currently 18th at $136 million . $100 million can allow a team to keep the best prospects and acquire more via free agency.

Cardinals currently 20th in payroll at $130 million. Add $100 million in payroll and we are the Astros. Stay where we are and we are the Royals.

I agree that in the longer term the Cardinals will eventually have to come back up to a ML payroll of ~10th in order to sustain success after a rebuilding period.

Perhaps but the Royals didn't after they won the world series. They caught a once in 50 years gear and then dumped again.

[BrockFloodMaris]

during the winter and 6 or 7 current minor leagues on the 26 man roster next season. This team was 11 games under .500 following the all star break. If they replace veterans with prospects and don't add a bunch of pitching we could be looking at a 100 lost team.

Houston lost 106, 107, and 111 games in three straight seasons (2011-2013), but then went to four World Series, winning two of them, in the next decade.

-Houston finally went to the WS after those 100+ loss seasons in 2017 and they had the 8th highest payroll in MLB.

Their next appearance in 2019 their payroll rose to #6 in MLB.

By 2021 when they went again, they had the 3rd highest payroll in MLB!

Thus proving it took them loads of payroll money to add quality players in order to reach the WS.

While they did have some homegrown players, they never would've made the WS w/o a MASSIVE increase in payroll.

That's why your example has Zero correlation whatsoever to the 2026 Cardinals.

Why?

Because BDWJr will never, ever have the 8th highest payroll in MLB, let alone the 6th or 3rd that it will take to build a WS roster.

If Rooney is right and they're "6 or 7 current minor leaguers" on the 2026 roster, then say hello to multiple 100 loss seasons w/no guarantee of success.

As I have said multiple times, I agree that the Cardinals will have to raise payroll back to about 10th to sustain success after they rebuild the depth of cost controlled young talent on the roster.

The fact that they will likely only get back to 10th and not higher makes what they are doing even more correct, not less. They need even a bit more young cost controlled talent than a Houston, Atlanta, or Philadelphia in order to have sustained success.

Sadly matt I don't see BDWJr ever going back to that 10th spot which would require him to go well above $210+M, no way.

Even after Bloom stocks the system I don't think he ever tops $180M and that will take 3+M in attendance again.

I hope I'm wrong.

But the only way we ever get to your "10th" in payroll is if BDWJr sells.

JMO

I tend to agree with Matt on this one, Rock. Bloom would not have agreed to come here without a commitment from ownership to spend $ to fill out this roster, once the MiLB development system groundwork is laid.

[HOUCARD]

I kind of expect a really bad record in 2026. If they bring Marmol back on his one remaining contract year, I will suspect a tanking season is in the plans.

If they part ways with Marmol, there might be hope for some spending and a decently competitive year.

If they extend Marmol this winter, I don't know what to expect.

Astros kept a poor manager during the tanking years and hired a good one when mgmt felt they would compete. Oli coming back won't surprise me. Plus, he will play who he is told to play.

[Lloyd Braun]

What I don’t understand is why they don’t hire an experienced manager that can help with player evaluation in moving forward:

They don't want a manager with credibility and leverage that can push for acquisitions, or who feel free to manage the way they want.

They want puppets and nothing more. I assume Bloom is the same, but won't know for sure until we see

[mattmitchl44]

during the winter and 6 or 7 current minor leagues on the 26 man roster next season. This team was 11 games under .500 following the all star break. If they replace veterans with prospects and don't add a bunch of pitching we could be looking at a 100 lost team.

Houston lost 106, 107, and 111 games in three straight seasons (2011-2013), but then went to four World Series, winning two of them, in the next decade.

-Houston finally went to the WS after those 100+ loss seasons in 2017 and they had the 8th highest payroll in MLB.

Their next appearance in 2019 their payroll rose to #6 in MLB.

By 2021 when they went again, they had the 3rd highest payroll in MLB!

Thus proving it took them loads of payroll money to add quality players in order to reach the WS.

While they did have some homegrown players, they never would've made the WS w/o a MASSIVE increase in payroll.

That's why your example has Zero correlation whatsoever to the 2026 Cardinals.

Why?

Because BDWJr will never, ever have the 8th highest payroll in MLB, let alone the 6th or 3rd that it will take to build a WS roster.

If Rooney is right and they're "6 or 7 current minor leaguers" on the 2026 roster, then say hello to multiple 100 loss seasons w/no guarantee of success.

As I have said multiple times, I agree that the Cardinals will have to raise payroll back to about 10th to sustain success after they rebuild the depth of cost controlled young talent on the roster.

The fact that they will likely only get back to 10th and not higher makes what they are doing even more correct, not less. They need even a bit more young cost controlled talent than a Houston, Atlanta, or Philadelphia in order to have sustained success.

Sadly matt I don't see BDWJr ever going back to that 10th spot which would require him to go well above $210+M, no way.

Even after Bloom stocks the system I don't think he ever tops $180M and that will take 3+M in attendance again.

I hope I'm wrong.

But the only way we ever get to your "10th" in payroll is if BDWJr sells.

JMO

I'll worry about that in several years, not now.