Sad thing is we would have got a wild card spot with minor changes

[jcgmoi]

To make it even funnier, fedde has a 3.38 era with the brewers

To make it funnier still, his K/9 is also 3.38.

Pallante and Fedde combined 9-25

They weren't good but they didn't lose 25 games on their own.

[Ozziesfan41]

Why would you want to sneak into the playoffs with the 3rd wild card slot. That does not make you competitive for going to the WS. Forget about making the playoffs and build a team that can actually succeed. It will take a couple of years.

Have some patience and build a winner and not just a .500 team/

+1 some people love seeing them squeak in and be one and done in the post season I would prefer them build a team that could do something in the postseason other than just be a stepping stone for other teams to knock off going deeper into the postseason season. I’m not a mo fan but he did the right thing with the way the team limped into the deadline a GM would have been completely dumb doing anything other than selling and it would have been even more dumb buying and hoping and paying the Mets would suffer an epic collapse. People are advocating they should have continued with sustained mediocrity instead of actually trying to improve

[scoutyjones2]

Why would you want to sneak into the playoffs with the 3rd wild card slot. That does not make you competitive for going to the WS. Forget about making the playoffs and build a team that can actually succeed. It will take a couple of years.

Have some patience and build a winner and not just a .500 team/

Can't you make the playoffs as a WC and still build towards a championship team? some weird logic that one prevents the other

[scoutyjones2]

Why would you want to sneak into the playoffs with the 3rd wild card slot. That does not make you competitive for going to the WS. Forget about making the playoffs and build a team that can actually succeed. It will take a couple of years.

Have some patience and build a winner and not just a .500 team/

+1 some people love seeing them squeak in and be one and done in the post season I would prefer them build a team that could do something in the postseason other than just be a stepping stone for other teams to knock off going deeper into the postseason season. I’m not a mo fan but he did the right thing with the way the team limped into the deadline a GM would have been completely dumb doing anything other than selling and it would have been even more dumb buying and hoping and paying the Mets would suffer an epic collapse. People are advocating they should have continued with sustained mediocrity instead of actually trying to improve

I don't understand the not wanting to make the playoffs because it's not a championship caliber team. How does making the playoffs as a 3rd wildcard, prevent progressing/building towards a championship team?

[CraigPaquette]

Why would you want to sneak into the playoffs with the 3rd wild card slot. That does not make you competitive for going to the WS. Forget about making the playoffs and build a team that can actually succeed. It will take a couple of years.

Have some patience and build a winner and not just a .500 team/

I totally agree. The entire playoff format has gotten so ridiculous and outrageous that it is brainwashing fans to believe their team is capable and on the right track when they're clearly not. Can you imagine how ownership would build this up if they did squeak in? They will say "look, we made the playoffs, come to watch games next year even though we're not going to spend to get the quality pieces we need to compete". All this does is apply lipstick to an ugly pig but there are gullible fans that are going to eat it up.

[Red Bird Classic]

Probably any of the following three things would have led to us winning a wild card. I know we're planning for the next 2-5 years but not sure why there wasn't any urgency when it was within reach the last 2 months. Yeah we aren't a playoff caliber team and wouldn't have made it far. But it was within reach.

If we would have only done one or two of these things:

-Added one decent veteran starting pitcher (no big money lengthy contract) at the trade deadline and demoted Palante
-Added a decent outfielder (no big money lengthy contract) at trade deadline and demoted Walker
-Brought up Wetherholt in late August and early September when we had all of the injuries to our better hitters and our offense was struggling. Burleson, Donovan, Arendado, Winn, Contreras have all missed time last month and we could have used a great bat addition and some energy and excitement.

Our bullpen has actually been fine even with the trades.

None of those things above would have significantly changed our rebuilding strategy for the next few years and we probably would have made the playoffs. I just hate finishing 3 games back of a playoff spot. That's pretty close.

Sad.

Your changes probably change nothing, but even if we are wildly optimistic and think they could have snagged a WS spot, the team still wouldn't be a serious contender.

Why you want to see this sorry bunch humiliated in the wild card round?

[blackinkbiz]

Probably any of the following three things would have led to us winning a wild card. I know we're planning for the next 2-5 years but not sure why there wasn't any urgency when it was within reach the last 2 months. Yeah we aren't a playoff caliber team and wouldn't have made it far. But it was within reach.

If we would have only done one or two of these things:

-Added one decent veteran starting pitcher (no big money lengthy contract) at the trade deadline and demoted Palante
-Added a decent outfielder (no big money lengthy contract) at trade deadline and demoted Walker
-Brought up Wetherholt in late August and early September when we had all of the injuries to our better hitters and our offense was struggling. Burleson, Donovan, Arendado, Winn, Contreras have all missed time last month and we could have used a great bat addition and some energy and excitement.

Our bullpen has actually been fine even with the trades.

None of those things above would have significantly changed our rebuilding strategy for the next few years and we probably would have made the playoffs. I just hate finishing 3 games back of a playoff spot. That's pretty close.

Sad.

Put names to the following:

If we would have only done one or two of these things:

-Added one decent veteran starting pitcher (no big money lengthy contract) at the trade deadline and demoted Palante
-Added a decent outfielder (no big money lengthy contract) at trade deadline and demoted Walker

Easy to state but what was available and what would it have cost?

Monday morning QB..

Posted this in another thread but it's so brilliantly insightful I figured I'd share its wisdom here as well:

Precisely. I don't see this as some sort of moral victory but rather the opposite. It would have taken very, VERY little in correct decision-making making both from the FO in 40-man decisions and Olitard in roster creation and this team could easily be 5 games up on the final WC and this entire season would have a different outlook. Fan attendance would likely be drastically higher, team morale could actually be focused on winning and building a winning culture, and the young players could get some valuable playoff experience with confidence-building, and the future, rather than looking like a total rebuild, could inspire confidence.

So rather than be a Monday morning QB or armchair GM I'll go ahead and lay out those decisions:

-DFA Fedde and bring up McG a month sooner: minimum 3 game swing
-Send Pallante to the BP, spot start with promoted Matthews and/or Leahy, Steven Matz. As Pallante's been a negative WAR player, all that's needed is replacement level for a 2 game swing
-Either eat Walker's last option by sending him down or use him sparingly. Anyone with eyes can see he's simply not capable or ready for MLB pitching at this time: 2 game swing. He's basically taken the rope they handed him and hung himself with it.

Those 3 incredibly simple, obvious, and easy-to-make moves that fans have been screaming for months before they happened and this entire season has a different outlook, and in all likelihood as winning and hitting are contangious, the future would like brighter for individuals as well.

But nope, Mo's and idiot, Oli's an arrogant self-righteous (buzz) when it comes to managing, and they can both go sit on it and spin.

[mariontt]

Why would you want to sneak into the playoffs with the 3rd wild card slot. That does not make you competitive for going to the WS. Forget about making the playoffs and build a team that can actually succeed. It will take a couple of years.

Have some patience and build a winner and not just a .500 team/

Watching my favorite team in the playoffs is more exciting than not watching my favorite team in the playoffs, even if it's just for 2 games. Also, the last couple weeks of the regular season are more entertaining if the team is vying for a wild card spot or division lead. The Reds and Diamondbacks aren't considered serious WS contenders, but I bet their fan bases are rooting for them to edge out the Mets for the final spot (as am I). The Guardians were under .500 on Sept. 4th. They've since caught fire. Is their fan base excited right now or are they bummed because their team isn't a serious WS contender?

Like the OP said, a few minor moves might have been enough to get this team into the 3rd wild card spot without mortgaging the future. Nobody expected the Mets to collapse down the stretch. Still, I don't blame management for not making the moves for this year. This team has been pretty lifeless since the end of June.

[ramfandan]

While one can point to a change or two that may have won a few more games, the teams you would have surpassed can also claim the same thing.
They can point to a trade or lack of trade that would have given them several more wins and the move the Cardinals 'could have' made would sill be negated by the other teams moves.

[blackinkbiz]

While one can point to a change or two that may have won a few more games, the teams you would have surpassed can also claim the same thing.
They can point to a trade or lack of trade that would have given them several more wins and the move the Cardinals 'could have' made would sill be negated by the other teams moves.

Except the changes the Cardinals coulda/shoulda/kinda did make were blatantly obvious whether they were trying to achieve a playoff position or not and would have been made by any team with someone other than the OliMOrons in charge.

Fedde for McG, Pallante to pen and replaced by Matz/Leahy/Q Matthews, and either sending down or sparingly using Walker aren't even questionable moves. They all should have happened months ago. Simply doing these would likely be in the realm of a 10-game swing.

Then, if and when they were still in contention, additional moves could have been made as well.

[hugeCardfan]

We did what needed doing. We played the existing team all year and learned a ton about them. Some developed nicely, others are real areas of concern. I hope that we learned what we needed to regarding Walker, Pallante, et al.

This winter Chaim can shop for a pitcher or two. He can decide what he wants to focus on regarding outfielders. We are where we need to be and need to get somewhere else next year.

[blackinkbiz]

We did what needed doing. We played the existing team all year and learned a ton about them. Some developed nicely, others are real areas of concern. I hope that we learned what we needed to regarding Walker, Pallante, et al.

This winter Chaim can shop for a pitcher or two. He can decide what he wants to focus on regarding outfielders. We are where we need to be and need to get somewhere else next year.

Hah, I think they just as many questions now as they did before the season started.

-Can Nootbar ever be a full-time player?
-Can Gorman and Walker even be MLB regulars?
-Can Crooks hit at MLB level?
-Where can we move Arenado?
-Can Liberatore pitch at a high level the entire season?
-Can VSII get on base enough to be an MLB regular?

All they really learned was Donovan, Herrera, Burleson, Willy, and Winn are regulars, and they're idiots if they try to put Herrera behind the plate because he's clearly their best hitter and he has durability issues.

On the pitching side, they've got a fantastic BP. That and Herrera are probably the two bright spots of the season. Rotation is likely Gray, Lib, McG, but can Leahy and QMatthews round out the rotation? Oh, and Gray might be the worst "ace" in Cardinal history.

[CorneliusWolfe]

Why would you want to sneak into the playoffs with the 3rd wild card slot. That does not make you competitive for going to the WS. Forget about making the playoffs and build a team that can actually succeed. It will take a couple of years.

Have some patience and build a winner and not just a .500 team/

Can't you make the playoffs as a WC and still build towards a championship team? some weird logic that one prevents the other

Nope. You have to keep losing until you instantly transform into a WS contender and you better not make the playoffs beforehand or you’ll ruin the master plan. Don’t you understand??

[ScotchMIrish]

Probably any of the following three things would have led to us winning a wild card. I know we're planning for the next 2-5 years but not sure why there wasn't any urgency when it was within reach the last 2 months. Yeah we aren't a playoff caliber team and wouldn't have made it far. But it was within reach.

If we would have only done one or two of these things:

-Added one decent veteran starting pitcher (no big money lengthy contract) at the trade deadline and demoted Palante
-Added a decent outfielder (no big money lengthy contract) at trade deadline and demoted Walker
-Brought up Wetherholt in late August and early September when we had all of the injuries to our better hitters and our offense was struggling. Burleson, Donovan, Arendado, Winn, Contreras have all missed time last month and we could have used a great bat addition and some energy and excitement.

Our bullpen has actually been fine even with the trades.

None of those things above would have significantly changed our rebuilding strategy for the next few years and we probably would have made the playoffs. I just hate finishing 3 games back of a playoff spot. That's pretty close.

Sad.

I don't understand the mentality of we could have made the playoff but no chance of going far. Some of the best Cardinals teams flopped in the playoffs. Probably the worst Cardinals team to make the playoffs - 2006 - won the world series.

I don't know whether they could have made the playoffs but it was odd to call it quits with the team at .500 and if they had added at the all star break when they were 5 games over the team probably would have had a good chance at it.

[No-Mo-Mo]

Actually go back and take back those 8-9 losses they had before May where they held a late inning lead and lost. And to counteract it they didn't have any late inning wins during that time period as well. Put 4 of those games or 6 or all of them and they're in the playoffs now.

[scoutyjones2]

Why would you want to sneak into the playoffs with the 3rd wild card slot. That does not make you competitive for going to the WS. Forget about making the playoffs and build a team that can actually succeed. It will take a couple of years.

Have some patience and build a winner and not just a .500 team/

Can't you make the playoffs as a WC and still build towards a championship team? some weird logic that one prevents the other

Nope. You have to keep losing until you instantly transform into a WS contender and you better not make the playoffs beforehand or you’ll ruin the master plan. Don’t you understand??

I do now! Thank you...not sure what I was thinking